Fred's first debate: Giuliani, Romney clash on taxes; Thompson says race 'boring without me'
Former Senator Fred Thompson stepped into the spotlight Tuesday for his debut debate with 2008 Republican rivals -- but he had some of his thunder stolen early by a prolonged exchange between Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney over who has been more effective in cutting taxes.
Centering on domestic issues, but taking a long detour into questions about Iraq and potential military action in Iran, the event was held in Dearborn, Michigan, an important hub in the manufacturing industry.
Thompson, a former senator who jumped into the White House race late in September, was under pressure to deliver a strong performance just 12 weeks before the first voters weigh in on the Republican field.
Fittingly, he received the debate's first question.
Asked whether he agreed with a poll showing the majority of Americans believe the country was either already in or heading toward a recession, Thompson said he didn't think it was true.
"I think there is no reason to believe that we're headed for a recession," he said, adding that the country was "enjoying 22 quarters of successive economic growth."
"I see no reason to believe we're headed for an economic downturn," Thompson added, although he acknowledged that "pockets of the economy" were having difficulty.
Later, as the debate wrapped up, the senator said his late entry in the race wouldn't diminish his chances.
"I’ve enjoyed watching these fellas,” he continued. “I gotta admit, it was getting a little boring without me.”
"This is a lot like ‘Law and Order,’" Mitt Romney had joked earlier. "It has a huge cast...the series seems to go on forever and Fred Thompson shows up at the end."
'It's a nice line, but it's baloney'
In the debate's first half, which focused heavily on economic issues, Arizona's Sen. John McCain fielded a question about how he would "win the middle class back" in a system where millionaire Wall Street executives paid lower tax rates than that of average Americans.
"Everybody's paying taxes and wealth creates wealth," McCain said, adding that he would recommend Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations to rival Ron Paul, who had earlier stated the US was in fact in a recession -- at least for the poor and middle class.
"As long as we live beyond our means, we are destined to live beneath our means" Paul had said, citing the financing of an "extravagant" foreign policy and excessive domestic spending that was disproportionately impacting poorer Americans.
"Everybody doesn't suffer equally, or this wouldn't be so bad," Paul said.
Later, Rudy Giuliani and former Governor Mitt Romney squared off over the issue of taxes.
"I cut taxes 23 times," said Giuliani of his time as mayor of New York City. "I believe in tax cuts, I believe in being a supply-sider."
Romney, while agreeing that the former mayor worked to lower taxes, criticized him for New York City's so-called commuter tax, which he called a "substantial" tax on people doing business in the Big Apple.
"The point is that you've got to control taxes -- but I did it, he didn't," Giuliani fired back, adding "I led, he lagged."
"It's a nice line, but it's baloney," Romney responded, going on to boast that he lowered taxes in Massachusetts. But the real disagreement between he and Giuliani, insisted Romney, had to do with a president's ability to use a line item veto to control spending.
"I'm in favor of the line item veto," he said, "to make sure that the president is able to help cut out pork and waste."
"You can't fool all of the people all of the time," Giuliani responded. "The line item veto is unconstitutional. You don't get to believe about it -- the Supreme Court has ruled on it, so you can bang your head up against a stone wall all you want."
"I am in favor of a line item veto, except you have to do it legally," he continued, adding that he stood by his decision to take "President Clinton to court" over a law that gave the former president line-by-line veto authorization. "I don't think its a bad idea to have a Republican presidential candidate who actually has beat President Clinton at something."
Excessive government spending -- roundly decried by all the candidates on stage-- was a recurring theme during the debate.
"We have to get spending under control," said Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, who said that no matter which party controlled Congress, "the system is built to spend."
Colorado's Rep. Tom Tancredo echoed spending concerns, saying attention should be focused on Social Security and Medicare programs and that deficit spending would never be ended if private Social Security accounts were not implemented.
Meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani used the opportunity to slam his potential rival in the general election, Sen. Hillary Clinton, for her proposal to provide financial assistance to families who set up 401(k) retirement accounts.
"Hillary is filled with endless ways to spend," he said. "We're going to have to control that."
Paul: 'Open up the Constitution and read it'
As the debate's focus transitioned into foreign policy issues, moderator Chris Matthews asked the candidates whether any of them, as president, felt they would have to seek authorization from Congress prior to taking military action against Iran.
"You sit down with your attorneys and tell you what you have have to do," Mitt Romney said, adding that a president had to do whatever it took to protect the country.
Asked if President Bush had needed congressional authority to invade Iraq, Romney again invoked lawyers, saying "We're going to let the lawyers sort out what he needed to do and what he didn't need to do."
"This idea of going and talking to attorneys totally baffles me," Ron Paul shot back later. "Why don't we just open up the constitution and read it."
"You're not allowed to go to war without a declaration of war," he continued, adding that "the thought that the Iranians could pose an imminent attack on the United States is preposterous. There's no way, this is just war propaganda."
Gov. Mike Huckabee said that if immediate action was required against Iran, he would act without approval from Congress if the situation required it.
Similarly, Sen. McCain said that he take prompt military action if called upon, but said "of course you want to go to Congress."
"At minimum," according to McCain, he would "consult with the leaders of Congress."
"I think John has it right," Thompson said of McCain, adding that Congress should be consulted "in any close call" because "you need the American people."
An opportunistic Rudy Giuliani, who said it was "safer to go to Congress," jumped at a chance offered by Matthews to take a jab at Hillary Clinton, saying the Democratic frontrunner had previously dodged a question about whether she would use military force to stop Iran from becoming a nuclear power.
"She was asked, 'Would you take a strong position that Iran will not be allowed to become nuclear and that we would use a military option, if we had to?' And she didn't answer the question," he said.
(with wire reports)
The following videos are from from CNBC's Your Money Your Vote Republican Debate, broadcast on October 9, 2007.
Giuliani and Romney mix it up over tax cuts:
Republican candidates go on the record about Iran:
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