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May 10th, 2007 at 17:13:01  From: another Dick?
Holbrooke is looking to be asked to be Secretary of . . . This is part of his verbal resume.
May 10th, 2007 at 17:13:43  From: Karen
Way more people died in Vietnam per day than Iraq. He is incorrect.
May 10th, 2007 at 17:22:31  From: JCK
Karen: Field medical technology is far, far more advanced now. Many of the people coming home with severe injuries -- but alive -- would be dead if we still had Vietnam era medical tech. Don't be fooled by "lower body counts" ... Iraq is nearly as bad as Vietnam, if not just as bad. And either way, does it really matter? Should we wait until the same number of people have died before pulling out? I don't think so.
May 10th, 2007 at 17:30:03  From: Rick
He was not talking about body count being worse than Vietnam. But as a foreign policy and the danger to the region that it is worse than Vietnam
May 10th, 2007 at 17:55:55  From: Karen
Rick and JCK
It's intellectually dishonest to call this worse than Vietnam. We've had much more progress in Iraq than what people think. The headlines don't tell the story.
May 10th, 2007 at 18:05:44  From: JCK
Okay, Karen... tell me the story.
May 10th, 2007 at 18:13:06  From: WTF
KAren
You are a koolaid drinker....tell us all you don't watch Fox News.....go ahead ...tell us
May 10th, 2007 at 18:18:52  From: anonymous loller
Reread the blurb. He called it "a FOREIGN POLICY CRISIS worse than Vietnam". As stated above there are equally if not more important metrics than body count, though that's more easily quantified.
May 10th, 2007 at 18:30:19  From: hannitysux
Karen, You're right....
The heat in Iraq is a dry heat and not as bad as the humid heat of Vietnam. Everyone is being "Intellectually dishonest" about which place was worse.
May 10th, 2007 at 18:41:47  From: Torture GWB
There were no WMDs.
If I'm not mistaken, Holbrooke strongly supported the preemptive invasion of Iraq. His credibility is suspect, IMO. That is not to detract from his point that this foreign policy catastrophe will forever be known as "Bush's Blunder". Of course, the death and injury totals aren't quite the same as Vietnam but then again,in Vietnam we had a peak of 550,000 troops at one time and probably cycled through 2.5 million or more troops in those years, in single tours of duty. In Iraq, we're sending fewer numbers of troops back for multiple, and longer, tours and increasing their odds of being injured or killed far beyond the odds in Vietnam. And we're going to end up with the same result in terms of altering the direction of the prevailing governments.
May 10th, 2007 at 19:23:27  From: Even Stevens
Karen is right. Some parts of Iraq are nearly totally pacified. The Kurdish areas even welcome tourists. Leave the talking points at home.
May 10th, 2007 at 19:25:50  From: KEN KORNFELD
IRAQ IS A GOP PARTY MESS.
INSTEAD OF MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, BUSH SHOULD HAVE SAID: WE HAVE LIT THE FUSE AND EXPECT IRAQ TO BE IN TOTAL ANARCHY AND DISTRUCTION WITHIN THREE YEARS!
May 10th, 2007 at 19:31:22  From: 
Evan Stevens
That was satire , Right?
May 10th, 2007 at 19:54:15  From: Ronald Dixon
Liberals loved Saddam. He financed massive building projects and was secular. They want to set up a similar system here. I can imagine them installing Howard Dean as Grand Sultan. Bathing in pools of vodka, his slaves would dance for him. Independent would be hired to rub oil on his 'trunk'. SEND EM ALL TO GITMO.
May 10th, 2007 at 20:02:16  From: WTF
What happened to the "conservatives"
I guess enormous government, with enormous spending and massive debt is the way to go. A government that is into everyone's business-legally spying, wiretapping, and spiriting away those citizens it feels may be threatening. Please explain just one thing the commander guy has done right.
May 10th, 2007 at 20:17:29  From: WJM
Ronald Dixon, once again, you spout stupidity. It was YOUR guys, Rumsfeld and Cheney who LOVED Saddam. They sold him all kinds of weapons systems, and there is film of Rummy shaking Saddam's hand and smiling. Is there such footage of Clinton or his sec. of Defense doing the same thing? How do you breathe with your head that far up your own ass?
May 10th, 2007 at 20:22:52  From: 
Marine says urinated on dead Iraqi at Haditha
May 9th, 2007 at 20:24:11 From: Ronald Dixon Again, why is this news?............................................................................................................................... You truly are a moron
May 10th, 2007 at 22:29:28  From: 
Who cares? Let the war supporters pay for it and give the liberals a tax break.
May 11th, 2007 at 06:16:43  From: Jim C
He is correct , the Vietnamese never hated us , they just wanted us out . The cultures are very different , muslem versis buddhist , way different attitudes .
May 11th, 2007 at 07:21:00  From: 
The Kurdish parts are nearly stable ... and why? For a start, they cut themselves off from the rest of Iraq at the first chance they got. They were lucky enough that a minimum of US troops were deployed there and instead they got Korean troops. The Kurds actually cooperated with the Korean troops and concentrated on building an independent Kurdistan which has been their objective since long before this war. Moreover, under Saddam ALL the Kurds were at the bottom of the heap and they have similar ethnic backgrounds so they found it easy to work together and keep the rest of the world out. Best of all, the Kurds didn't have John Negroponte training their police force.
May 11th, 2007 at 07:57:14  From: I'm Tired
"I'm Tired" Two weeks ago, as I was starting my sixth month of duty in Iraq , I was forced to return to the USA for surgery for an injury I sustained prior to my deployment. With luck, I'll return to Iraq to finish my tour. I left Baghdad and a war that has every indication that we are winning, to return to a demoralized country much like the one I returned to in 1971 after my tour in Vietnam Maybe it's because I'll turn 60 years old in just four months, but I'm tired: I'm tired of spineless politicians, both Democrat and Republican who lack the courage, fortitude, and character to see these difficult tasks through. I'm tired of the hypocrisy of politicians who want to rewrite history when the going gets tough. I'm tired of the disingenuous clamor from those that claim they 'Support the Troops' by wanting them to 'Cut and Run' before victory is achieved. I'm tired of a mainstream media that can only focus on car bombs and casualty reports because they are too afraid to leave the safety of their hotels to report on the courage and success our brave men and women are having on the battlefield. I'm tired that so many Americans think you can rebuild a dictatorship into a democracy over night. I'm tired that so many ignore the bravery of the Iraqi people to go to the voting booth and freely elect a Constitution and soon a permanent Parliament. I'm tired of the so called 'Elite Left' that prolongs this war by giving aid and comfort to our enemy, just as they did during the Vietnam War. I'm tired of antiwar protesters showing up at the funerals of our fallen soldiers. A family who's loved ones gave their life in a just and noble cause, only to be cruelly tormented on the funeral day by cowardly protesters is beyond shameful. I'm tired that my generation, the Baby Boom -- Vietnam generation, who have such a weak backbone that they can't stomach seeing the difficult tasks through to victory. I'm tired that some are more concerned about the treatment of captives than they are the slaughter and beheading of our citizens and allies. I'm tired that when we find mass graves it is seldom reported by the press, but mistreat a prisoner and it is front page news. Mostly, I'm tired that the people of this great nation didn't learn from history that there is no substitute for Victory. Sincerely, Joe Repya, Lieutenant Colonel, U. S. Army 101st Airborne Division
May 11th, 2007 at 08:00:15  From: Lynne
Trying to create a unified Iraq is like trying to nail jello to a tree. It is not a unified country and wasn't until American/European meddling created it. The region will disintegrate into tribal nations regardless of how many Americans stay and die. All our continued presence does is further weaken our military. If that is the goal, Bush has done a splendid job.
May 11th, 2007 at 08:27:19  From: Dmaker
Don't wory let the american terrorist die,and for the ones so called live well they are just a liability for the country they are not death but as good as death, and this,group of zombies,they will need lots of money and medical support so why not let them die as the iraqi's,bush,cheney don't give a fu$@$#$$% about this so called soldier no MAN THIS SCUM ARE NOTHING MORE THAN WORKING DOG'S FOR THEIR MASTER AND THEY ARE EXPANDILE, AND IN THE USA THEY GETTINF FUCKING NOTHING WITH EXEPTION OF SOME WHITE BUT FOR THE HISPANICS AND BLACK IS DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE "WELL DESERVED" FOR THIS GROUPS OF INFERIOR,RACE AS THE MIXBAG OF WHITE TRUSH IE,BUSH,CHENEY,RUMBSFELD,AND THE BRITISH ANLONG WITH MANY OTHERS.
May 11th, 2007 at 08:50:15  From: 
Dmaker, what is your native language? It is obviously not English.
May 11th, 2007 at 09:05:42  From: kilroy
Dmaker
Did you goat dump you for a camel?? Please don't take it out on us!!
May 11th, 2007 at 09:18:38  From: kilroy
Dmaker
it seems you do not understand the concept of the military, and what a soldiers duty is, within that military. Soldiers don't pick and choose the battles, they obey the orders of the COI, with the backing of congress, in the instance of the Iraq war, except for Kerry, who "voted for it, before he voted against it" You sound like the kind of person who rips the military because you don't have what it takes to be a true patriot soldier, maybe the cub scouts will have you .
May 11th, 2007 at 10:45:01  From: joe
we must continue fighting the totally necessary quagmire in VietRaq. and let's not here any talk about Abu Graib being Bush's Aushwitz.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:53:51  From: WJM
I'm Tired: Colonel, if you indeed are one, Let me ask you something: Did your Commander in Chief not tell us all over 3 years ago that the war was essentially over? What was that "Mission Acoomplished" crap about, then? The WAR has been over for a long time, now. This is NOT a war. If you have actually been in war, then I think you would recognize that fact. This is an occupation, no matter how you try and couch it as being a war. It is NOT a war. The war HAS been won. It was won over 3 years ago. The fact is that this administration, with it's incredible incompetence, never had any idea what to do when the war was over. They ignored plans that had been drawn up years before for the exact scenario. They ignored the advice and consent of YOUR leaders in uniform and put you people in an illegal war that we NEVER should have been in. ----- I appreciate your service, and understand that you are trying to do your job as best you can, but I suggest to you that it was the wrong job in the first place. And now with the Taliban making a resurgence in Afghanistan, where we DIDN'T finish the job before packing up to go to Iraq, we stand a very good chance of losing the whole enchillada. And Iraq was thought up as an invasion plan by those in this administration 5+ YEARS before they ever got into office. I'm sorry, sir, I intend no disrespect, but I think you are following a fool and doing a fool's errand. I admit that you have no choice in your position, and I consider that to be a breech of contract by this administration. You signed up to serve with the belief that they would not ask you to do so for illegal reasons. They have, and that is a breech of both contract and trust. ----- Ask yourself this: What is the trigger that will actually tell you that we've "won"? Is it that Saddam is gone? He is. Is it that the Iraqi's have their own government? They do. Is it that they have elections? They did. Is it that the majority of the people want us out? They do. Is it that the majority of the gov't wants us out? They do. And the majority of the American people want us out, too. It seems to me that we are now like a bad guest who just won't go home. ----- I keep hearing people like you talking about how we have to "win". How will you know? What EXACTLY does "win" mean? What EXACTLY does that entail? Calling us "cut and runners" isn't going to make a dent in our opinions, because we here don't get our (mis)information from Fox like you seem to. And please explain to me this: How does short changing vets, both wounded and not, "support the troops?" It seems to me that, when things like this go along party lines (with the republicans voting against you 100% of the time) that it's those of us who want to get our people out of the way of IEDS and suicide bombers who are the ones who actually support you guys. We want you to survive, they don't care about your survival one bit. They want to use you guys up and spit you out. The whole stop loss program and troops being there for their third terms are proof of that. We would prefer to have you all back home and in one piece. The job is done. The longer we stay, the worse things get, and will get. The longer we stay, the less likely the Iraqi's are to do things for themselves. What is their morivation to do so when we are doing it all for them? And the more we stay, the more we piss off the rest of the world. The job is done. We won the war, and are losing the OCCUPATION. Come on, Colonel, get right with your terminology, at least. If you've truly been there, you should recognize it for what it is. And wake up, sir, we are NOT the problem, here. We are trying to be responsible, your president is the one acting like a spoiled child.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:58:51  From: 
WJM
I think you just made his point.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:30:05  From: WJM
Alright, anonymous one, tell me how I'm wrong? You can either look aqt this with an open mind and from a factual basis, or you can be a mindless follower. How about if you educate me, then? I'm willing to learn, something righties can't be bothered with. Go ahead, educate me. But I suspect that you will either disappear or come back with the usual shit. But go ahead.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:57:37  From: May 11th, 2007 at 12:30:05
WJM
I believe in and trust the President and the military, as opposed to any nonsense you misguided, shrill, left wing libs stand for, you spout a lot of nonsense, which reassures me that the country would really be in trouble if your choice for president was in charge during an attack on the U.S., let alone how to handle it, I guess that would be panic and appeasemnet.
May 11th, 2007 at 13:11:10  From: WTF
May 11th, 2007 at 12:30:05
This just in ....IRAQ didn't attack us, and there were no weapons of mass destruction. This war was waged on lies and falsified documents. Lastly, I have a hard time believing a President who says God speaks to him.....PERIOD.
May 11th, 2007 at 13:45:30  From: Lynne
WJM, terrific post, logic, and great questions. All the conservative posters seem to be able to muster is insults.
May 11th, 2007 at 13:53:22  From: WJM
Yeah, Right. And just what was it that you were doing during the LAST presidency? Were you as loyal to him as you are to this "man"? I suspect not. As to loyalty to the military, what do you call it when a party sends a military into battle unprepared, short handed, short of equipment, and 4 years later the same thing is STILL happening? What do you call it when the same party not only cuts benefits to vets but also cuts funding for research into the very injuries the returning wounded are dealing with, like traumatic brain injury? What do YOU call it when they keep putting the same people back into the field time and time again without the required rest periods? How does ANY of that SUPPORT the troops? You are a fool. I thought so. As to what would have happened if we had been attacked with dems in charge, let me first remind you that WE WERE NOT ATTACKED BY IRAQ. EVER. Secondly, I don't think that 9/11 would have occurred as anything but just another day had Gore been president. He wasn't fool enough to ignore over 80 warnings that something was coming, and it was going to be big. He wasn't stupid enough to think that the phrase "Al Queida determined to strike in the US" was a "historical document." If Gore were president, we wouldn't be where we are today, that is for sure. AS to who would be fighting, look at the military records of your congressmen and senators. The republicans have ONE senator that served. McCain. You can't say that about the dems, who have several vets, and numerous decorated ones. It's damn near the same in the house. You might want to choose your lyalties a little more wisely. Lemming!
May 11th, 2007 at 13:54:12  From: WJM
The last post was aimed at the anonymous bush lover, not at Lynne.
May 11th, 2007 at 14:24:15  From: JK
"I'm tired"
That post was complete Bullshit-" With luck, I'll return to Iraq to finish my tour."- that's priceless stuff....
May 11th, 2007 at 15:29:27  From: 
The only civil war in Iraq is between Iraq's elite and the new Iraqi government on one hand, paid for by the US so that their actions lead to the Big Four's desired outcome, and on the other hand the majority of Sunnis, Shia and Kurds who consider themselves Iraqis first and who oppose the US led invasion. With 140,000 U.S. troops on the ground, the largest U.S. embassy in the world sequestered in Baghdad's fortified "Green Zone" and an economy designed by a consulting firm in McLean, Va., post-invasion Iraq was well on its way to becoming a bonanza for foreign investors, at the expense of the Iraqi people, who have organized a resistance. The occupation authorities have to steer an ostensibly sovereign government to the outcome they desire, and they have to overcome any resistance that they encounter from the fiercely independent majority of Iraqis along the way. Finally, they have to make sure that the Anglo-American firms were well-positioned to win the lion's share of the choicest contracts. It was never about religion- that's just the icing on the cake. It has always been about oil, money, and who conbtrols it- the people who have lived there for 10,000 years or the foreigners. The Bushes have been planning this for a decade.
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