While nearly all of the still-living former CIA directors signed the letter to Obama, two abstained: former President George H.W. Bush and Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
"Director Panetta appreciates the President's strong support for the men and women of the CIA. His focus, and that of the agency as a whole, is on the national security challenges of today and tomorrow," said CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano in a statement noted by Marc Ambinder at The Atlantic. "The Director has stood up for those who followed legal guidance on interrogation, and he will continue to do so. The CIA is cooperating with the official reviews now in progress, in part to see that they move as expeditiously as possible. The goal is to ensure that current agency operations--on which the safety of our country depends--center on protecting the nation."
Update: In a press release Friday, the American Civil Liberties Union condemned what it called an "attempt to derail justice."
"Attorney General Holder initiated a criminal investigation because the available evidence shows that prisoners were abused and tortured in CIA custody. The suggestion that President Obama should order Attorney General Holder to abort the investigation betrays a misunderstanding of the role of the attorney general as well as the relationship between the attorney general and the president. Where there is evidence of criminal conduct, the attorney general has not just the authority but the duty to investigate. The attorney general is the people's lawyer, not the president's lawyer, and it would be profoundly inappropriate for President Obama to interfere with his work.
"The attorney general's investigation should be allowed to proceed without interference, and it certainly should not be derailed by the self-serving protests of former CIA officials who oversaw the very crimes that are being investigated.
The letter to President Obama follows ...
####
September 18, 2009
The President
The White House
Washington, D.C.
Dear Mr. President:
We have served as Directors of Central Intelligence or Directors of the CIA for Presidents reaching back over 35 years. We respectfully urge you to exercise your authority to reverse Attorney General Holder's August 24 decision to re-open the criminal investigation of CIA interrogations that took place following the attacks of September 11.
Our reasons for making this recommendation are as follows.
The post-September 11 interrogations for which the Attorney General is opening an inquiry were investigated four years ago by career prosecutors. The CIA, at its own initiative, forwarded fewer than 20 instances where Agency officers appeared to have acted beyond their existing legal authorities. Career prosecutors under the supervision of the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia determined that one prosecution (of a CIA contractor) was warranted. A conviction was later obtained. They determined that prosecutions were not warranted in the other cases. In a number of these cases the CIA subsequently took administrative disciplinary steps against the individuals involved. Attorney General Holder's decision to re-open the criminal investigation creates an atmosphere of continuous jeopardy for those whose cases the Department of Justice had previously declined to prosecute. Moreover, there is no reason to expect that the re-opened criminal investigation will remain narrowly focused.
If criminal investigations closed by career prosecutors during one administration can so easily be reopened at the direction of political appointees in the next, declinations of prosecution will be rendered meaningless. Those men and women who undertake difficult intelligence assignments in the aftermath of an attack such as September 11 must believe there is permanence in the legal rules that govern their actions. They must be free, as the Chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, Senator Lieberman, has put it: "to do their dangerous and critical jobs without worrying that years from now a future Attorney General will authorize a criminal investigation of them for behavior that a previous Attorney General concluded was authorized and legal." Similar deference needs to be shown to fact-based decisions made by career prosecutors years ago.
Not only will some members of the intelligence community be subjected to costly financial and other burdens from what amounts to endless criminal investigations, but this approach will seriously damage the willingness of many other intelligence officers to take risks to protect the country. In our judgment such risk-taking is vital to success in the long and difficult fight against the terrorists who continue to threaten us.
Success in intelligence often depends on surprise and deception and on creating uncertainty in the mind of an enemy. As President you have the authority to make decisions restricting substantive interrogation or any other intelligence collection method, based on legal analyses and policy recommendations. But, the administration must be mindful that public disclosure about past intelligence operations can only help Al Qaeda elude US intelligence and plan future operations. Disclosures about CIA collection operations have and will continue to make it harder for intelligence officers to maintain the momentum of operations that have saved lives and helped protect America from further attacks.
Finally, another certain result of these reopened investigations is the serious damage done to our intelligence community's ability to obtain the cooperation of foreign intelligence agencies. Foreign services are already greatly concerned about the United States' inability to maintain any secrets. They rightly fear that, through these additional investigations and the court proceedings that could follow, terrorists may learn how other countries came to our assistance in a time of peril. The United States promised these foreign countries that their cooperation would never be disclosed. As a result of the zeal on the part of some to uncover every action taken in the post-9/11 period, many countries may decide that they can no longer safely share intelligence or cooperate with us on future counter-terrorist operations. They simply cannot rely on our promises of secrecy.
We support your stated commitment, Mr. President, to look to the future regarding these important issues. In our judgment the only way that is possible is if the criminal investigation of these interrogations that Attorney General Holder has re-opened is now re-closed.
Sincerely,
Michael Hayden
Porter Goss
George Tenet
John Deutch
R. James Woolsey
William Webster
James R. Schlesinger
Investigate those 7 also. Fuck em.
fuck them....................no accountability..no change....its that simple!
gee, I wonder why?
That sounds like a pretty clear admission of guilt, I think.
Where's the article? This happens frequently: you follow the link and it only has the title of the article and the comment window.
Please, don't tell everyone about all the torture we've done and laws we've broken! Please?
THIS IS PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING - INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE NOW
ruh roh, someone is getting a little scardy.
who watches the watchmen? who holds them accountable? who do they really answer to?
if they have anything to say about it, the answer is nobody. they will usurp the authority of anybody who tries to hold them up tot he light for all to see. if that does not work, they have other means. check your history books for plenty of examples.
they are running like the cockroaches that they are.
AG Holder has had 91 former attorneys general weigh in on the Sirgelman case with no action taken. why should he give a rat's ass what 7 former bureaycrats have to say about the fact that they might be held accountable?
Now with the crimes the CIA did and the direction and approval of the Bush Administration this makes since. The lawyers who wrote up the criminal torture orders will go on trial in Spain which will lead to Dick Cheney. The CIA has committed crimes and can only save themselves by telling who gave them the orders. Now we know Porter Goss didn't give orders as he was just holding the title while Cheney ran the CIA. PBS had retired CIA agents who admitted Cheney gave the orders and wouldn't settle for anything less. Now let's hope Obama keeps his word and let's Eric Holder do his job and not do what Bush/Cheney did as they took over the DOJ and Gonzo didn't even know what was going on unless Cheney or Karl Rove told him.
Look at the names on that letter! These are the guys who, as directors, were not professional CIA men, but instead where political appointees. Notice Ray McGovern's name is not there. Ray is a former analyst for the CIA for 27 years, and he says many professional CIA types favor the probe since the covert department of the CIA is run by political-appointee rogues who give the CIA a bad name.
I think what they meant to say was, "Either drop the fncking investigations or we'll 'grassy knoll/magic bullet' ur ass". The CIA cannot be trusted and needs to have 90% of their powers removed so that The People can be safe from them. They also need to stop taking orders from Cheney.
"Those men and women who undertake difficult intelligence assignments in the aftermath of an attack such as September 11 must believe there is permanence in the legal rules that govern their actions"
Bullshit. They knew they were engaging in war crimes, or at least knew there was some exposure to that charge, and are now whining about some convoluted BS legal hack job done at the behest of a criminal enterprise known as the Bush administration.
"this approach will seriously damage the willingness of many other intelligence officers to take risks"
Translation: actually holding people accountable for their criminality will deter future crimes.
"Success in intelligence often depends on surprise and deception and on creating uncertainty in the mind of an enemy. "
Such as the uncertainly of whether or not the United States will actually adhere to their own laws and international laws they signed off on, or whether they'll unilaterally ignore these laws.
Fuck all of these crime-supporting jerkwads. Prosecute them all, low and high up the chain, including at least one of the signatories (Hayden), as well as the crime capos at the top.
Hang'em High!
Hayden? Goss? Tenet?
They are potential indictees...so it's not as if they are looking out for the "front line" troops.
The rest of the signators likewise have baggage.
The intent of this letter is to politicize the Justice Department - just as it was done by Ashcroft and Gonzo.
America murdered detainees. Strung some of them up for days, causing them to stop breathing.
These thugs expect to be able to murder just because it was "with good intent"?
Their signatures are cold comfort to the facts. Figures they will continue to stand up for Bush, even though he hung out one of their own for political gain, Valerie Plame. By the way, what ever happened to that CIA damage assessment from her cover being blown? Huh?
Didn't see you boys signing off on THAT, all I see is here is CYA. Covering Your Asses is NOT "unprecedented" among CIA directors, it is their typical modus operandi since the CIA was first created.
Fuck all these anti American ROCKEFELLER Scum. I am sure, POSITIVE, Obama back channeled this letter just like be back channeled NAFTA with the Canadians during the election. No Mr. President, Kanye tells the truth YOU are the Jack Ass. and a deadly one at that. Remember his CAVE IN on FISA. (this provides cover to win the middle and some democrat base....)
Or Black George Bush. (prove me wrong I beg you.....)
Reads Like A Type O. Should Have Ended.
Sincerely,
War Criminals/Treasonists,
Michael Hayden
Porter Goss
George Tenet
John Deutch
R. James Woolsey
William Webster
James R. Schlesinger
Well gentlemen, if you want A.G. Holder to close the investigation into the CIA, we need only one thing in return for doing so.
Give up Vice President Dick Cheney and all his illegal acts that distorted and cherry picked CIA intelligence in the runup to the Iraq War and testify against him when called on.
A.G. Holder will take it from there.
Thank you for your service to the country.
President H.S. Truman said that one of his mistakes was the start up of the CIA.
So,
While grunts do time for following orders and more grunts get railroaded by a probe into those that failed to follow orders...
... Spain continues to push.
What will it mean should Spain and the International community comes to a verdict of GUILTY and the USA holds dear to the notion of, "Just not us" it's called "Just-US"...
... Of course it's NOT a violation of Geneva Conventions and International Laws when the USA does it?
Just think of all those fingers, MILLIONS of them, pointing and laughing at the USA...
Yes, we're #1...
... A-Hole that is!
.
If the United States is still a Nation Law then the opinions of these bastards should have no effect on a criminal investigation or Justice following its course.
I hope BHO realizes what he's doing by appeasing you lefties out there with bones like this. For an investigation that almost certainly will amount to absolutely nothing, he is risking his own political future. In the event that there is an attack on Obama's watch, letters like this will clearly show his culpability. All it takes is for some nut to strap on a back pack and walk on the subway, and Obama's second term hopes will be finished. And why? Because he wasn't strong enough to stand against his base on ridiculous issues like this. And yes, pursuing war crime charges against members of your own government who were trying to protect you is a ridiculous issue.
Our department of spooks speak. If they are this concerned, there must be an amazing amount of crime that can't be accounted for by statements, legal briefs or pretense.
Their argument thus demands a complete investigation about the CIA. What is their attempt at obstruction of justice trying to hide?
This is because they KNOW that people will go DOWN. Look, we need to do the RIGHT THING. PERIOD. That's IT. WHOEVER FALLS, falls... it's THAT simple. Either we obey the law and do what's right, or we have failed once and for all time. ALL the things they taught us about, "by the people, for the people," and about fairness, equality, democracy, and how the U.S. is the country that always does the RIGHT THING, mean NOTHING if we don't simply DO what is RIGHT. I am FOR war-crimes trials for each and every member of our CIA, NSA, DEA, Congress, Executive, private contractors, policy steering groups, bankers who financed the war, and media pundits who beat the war/torture drums.
Either we treat people around the globe with dignity and respect, or we are nothing but terrorists ourselves. Whether 9/11 was an inside job, or it was really done by a bunch of backwards assed Arabs in a cave somewhere who somehow managed to get such deep access to our intelligence apparatus, doesn't matter. We reacted WRONGLY. All we did was exact revenge on a whole culture/people in their entirety. It's so clear that this is all bullshit, and it is also very clear that the CIA is a creation of people like Reinhard Gehlan (S.S. Officer who was brought to the U.S. and helped create the CIA), which proves once and for all, that they are actually working for fascist interests, and not for the U.S. as a country and as a people. They work for corporations and bankers who want to dominate and enslave the world for their own purposes.
So naturally, they make demands for Obama to "drop the torture probe."
They KNOW that they could end up in the Hague under charges of crimes against humanity. They KNOW they are a sanctioned terrorist organization with the highest of access, technology, and know-how, and that if the TRUTH were to ever come out, that they would be destroyed once and for all, and probably end themselves up in prison for the remainder of their years. They KNOW that if ANYONE tries to make a deal for themselves, that THEY could be the ones sold out, even for crimes committed by them as far back as 30 years ago or so.
So... DROP IT
Funny how the offenders of high-crimes of the past always seem to support their contemporaries in attempting to keep their secrets secret, no?
Quite a few of those men were complicit in whatever went on post-911. I can't imagine where their motivation comes from.
I know at least four directors are ReprehensibleRepulsiveRepublicans, now that's something that should be taught in schools, the Real Three "Rs." Perhaps under family values and evangelicals classes. The parents should demand that this be a prerequisite at all levels of learning, 0 to high school senior grade. Then at the end of each school year, each class will have a guessing game like "To Tell the Truth," contestants will have a chance to guess a winner by saying: Will the Real future Dictator of our country," please stand up."
They wouldn't want it swashed unless it was damaging. Not that AG would hold anyone accountable anyway. It's all a giant circus, it's sick.
If the Justice Department under the Bush Administration hadn't been so politicized, with party hacks put in charge, and ideological zealots installed down the ranks, and should the Attorneys General in the Bush administration had been credible, then this argument would be unnecessary. However the decisions of the Justice Department in the prior administration have so little credibility, that it is difficult to argue that re-opening reviews that might have originally reached wrong conclusions, been politically or ideologically motivated, or in the self-interest of those making them is not justified. While some observers might not agree, it would be hard for a third party observer to deny that the Holder Justice Department is more neutral, more isolated from politics than the prior. The damage done to this department under the Bush administration may not be healed for decades, if ever.
The premise of the letter is wrong. Attorney General Eric Holder is not going after a political witch hunt. That is not what the Obama Administration does. There were serious crimes that avoided investigation because of the political climate at the time. For these crimes to remain under wraps tells the CIA that it is above the law and that it can operate separately from the law without fear of consequences.
The CIA is afraid of a wider investigation.
The idea that other countries can no longer trust the government to maintain secrets is also untrue. We may find that other governments cooperated with illegal activities. This should not be protected.
A government "by the people for the people" places the people in authority over the government. What we have here is a careful shift toward a government run in secret so that the people cannot have authority. We are becoming a country in which the people are like bees in a beehive valued only for their economic output only, which fuels activities of a government separate from the people.
Michael McTague and 10 of his friends want Obama to probe torture by CIA. And if they come up with 11 signatures, Michael assures me by tonight he'll have 14 signatures.
Come on, we're all citizens under the same constitution, if there was no crime let's look and see.
[...] of September 11. Our reasons for making this recommendation are as follows. Rest of the letter HERE Whatever happen, I say no good will come of [...]
I'll bet $10 that Obama licks their ass.
I think this little sentence sums up the true nature of their concerns: "Moreover, there is no reason to expect that the re-opened criminal investigation will remain narrowly focused."
Also, while Raw's headline states that they're asking "Holder," the article says they are asking Obama to "exercise his authority" and reverse Holder's decision--in other words, to quash the investigation. Isn't the DOJ supposed to be an independent agency, specifically because they're job entails investigating the possible criminality of people in high places within our govt?
Maybe these CIA directors need to be reminded that our president is not a king.
Gee, President Obama, don't you get it? It matters not that those investigations conducted by the Bush administration were conducted by a corrupt, politically driven justice department. Don't you understand that in order to "keep us safe" the CIA must be able to work its magic outside the law? CIA officers don't need no stinking law. The CIA must be free to torture, assinate, rig foreign elections and topple governments that represent no threat to us. Ask that great patriot Oliver North, President Obama. He'll set your ass straight.
Take them all down, they are really scared, it's time to take our country back from these kind of people.
To Adam from Tampa,
And who, exactly, does Obama have tortured to find that "nut to strap on a back pack and walk on the subway"?
Additionally, a point that it too often over-looked, is that an investigation into illegal practices shall provide faith in the system for those in the CIA who refused to participate in the bad acts and knew these things were wrong at the time - an outlook that may be held by the vast majority of the CIA.
Wow, so Secretary of War Robert Gates abstained. How hororable.
Especially, since Secretary Gates' background: beginning with that wonderful break-in at the pschiatrist's office of Daniel Ellsberg (circa "Pentagon Papers') and his urging the president (during his CIA days) to "bomb Nicaragua."
And his hereditary entitlement to the position of Secretary of Defense (his father held the same position). And his affiliation with VoteHere and SAIC (the number one governmental intelligence contractor). And his penchant for boiling cates as a teen.
Well, I guess all that qualifies him for Obama's Secretary of War.
@ Adam from Tampa
It is not the issue of war crimes and torture investigation (and prosecution) which is ridiculous... it is your position which is ridiculous.
Investigation of all credible allegations of torture is required by treaty (which is law equal to the Connstitution itself)... with no prosecutorial discretion in the matter.
In a law-abiding, Constitution-respecting administration -- that is to say, one acting directly opposite of and contrary to the Bush-Cheney War Crime Cabal -- the president does not give orders to the Department of Justice. The Attorney General and Department of Justice do not work for the president, but instead are independent and work for the People of the United States... that is, until Bush & Cheney corrupted & politicized both.
I hope all 13 of the Bush-Cheney Torture Team are indicted, tried, convicted and go to prison... except Cheney, Addington, Yoo, Haynes and Rumsfeld, who should all hang instead.
To Adam from Tampa: why do you hate America, its laws and Constitution? There can be no other conclusion gleaned from a call to ignore obvious war crimes. It used to be that conservatives and the Republican Party believed in adherence to the law and accountability. Evidently, only Democrats can break the law in the dimwitted mind of these pitiful excuses for Americans.
You and your sordid ilk can continue to try and claim that accountability to the law is some kind of leftist, liberal thing (maybe it is these days, since you clowns seem to disdain the law).
And to try and make the claim that if there is a future attack, prosecuting or even investigating criminality will be the reason ('culpability').
And finally, the very idea that violating international or national laws are hunky-dorey if the perpetrators were "trying to protect you" is an illogical, irrational bit of stupidity. In fact, everything you've thrown out smacks of egregious stupidity and a hatred of our heritage. Please go fuck yourself with a hot tire iron.
Are the CIA directors on there knees begging, like they made other men do?
Are they begging like they made me beg under there Mk Ultra program!
Yesterday I posted how the CIA made me beg and I'm living in the United States of America..
Are the CIA directors afraid that exposing the CIA in torture in Iraq may lead to other things?
Like how the CIA is working in the USA...
Exposing what has been going on in that secret room that even our Congress doesn't know about,or how it's funded..
Exposing MK Ultra.asassination, etc in the USA...
Are they protecting there big boss the Rockefeller's?
They ate cake,,now off with there heads...
"And yes, pursuing war crime charges against members of your own government who were trying to protect you is a ridiculous issue."
Yup, the rule of law only applies to those you don't like, but not you or your friends when they break the law.
It's that complete fucktardation you have that makes you so unlikeable.
If those people wanted to really protect us, several things would have happened differently. For example, they would have paid attention to the memo they got weeks before the attacks that said "Osama bin Laden determined to attack within the United States". ... keeping that memo in mind, they would not have allowed 4 commercial jet liners to roam the skies without transponders on, off course, for an hour and a 1/2 (the only time in our history when that was allowed to happen). Then, they would NOT have lied us into Iraq and killed over 4000 troops, pissed away over $2 trillion, and killed over a million innocent Iraqi men, women, and children.
Oh, and they wouldn't have outed a covert asset that was keeping an eye on Iran and its nuclear ambitions..
You don't have a logical, rational, or reasonable leg to stand on.
Methinks they doth protest too much.
Seven sick sphincters say what?
Wow nice comments. This is like a MENSA version of the Huffington Post.
Investigate these criminals! They've been committing crimes all over the world for the last 60+ years. It's time to hold these criminals accountable. They're running scared because investigators might find something related to Korea, JFK assasination, Vietnam, Iraq I&II and 9/11.
Well okay then the 3 Bush Director's Tenet, Goss and Hayden can step forward and take the fall for everyone else.
This letter signed by seven CIA directors constitutes a demand that Obama skirt US and international law.
CIA directors all have "interesting" files on each other. So does Baltazar Garzon of the Spanish courts.
So does a new "deep throat" at the FBI or in any number of the many US. intelligence services.
One may logically assume that one CIA director may have already broken omerta since soon to be indicted criminals inevitably do.
By signing this letter, these CIA directors become accomplices to an unconstitutional attempt to intimidate the president of the United States.
Next?
That's almost an admission of guilt. It's like telling the cop who pulled you over for failing to use a turn signal, "whatever you do, officer, DON'T LOOK IN THE TRUNK!"
Doctor Lee in Atlanta: President H.S. Truman said that one of his mistakes was the start up of the CIA.
via dailyrotten.com:
Sep 18 1946
Harry S. Truman signs the National Security Act of 1947 thus establishing the CIA. ~~> http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/cia/
They want the prope stopped because our CIA is guilty of many crimes against many othe countries. How we as a people allowed so many crimes is a shame. We formented coups and killed a lot of people in the name of Democracy.
Any men or women putting their lives on the line while working for the CIA or any US agency with police powers, should be able to point to the rule of law as their litmus test when it comes to following orders. If the people at the top are able put the rule of law aside, anyone risking their lives is doing so in vain, and at that point is also conspiring with those criminals at the top that deploy them.
-Swear the Oath, cash the check, pay the price.
The leaders need to be accountable and also acting and voting in concert with the will of the people before any talk of uniting together for a common and difficult purpose. I would assume this is well known, so my next assumption would be that that is exactly what is wanted. Divide, separate, lie, lie, cheat, steal, extort, . . .lie, lie. .
Another day in the free-fraud zone, commonly known as D.C.
If we are to gain face in the international communities eyes we MUST go forward and prosecute those to blame in the fullest extent of the law, not the lack there of.
[...] Posted by Ronin Tetsuro http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/sev...torture-probe/ I gotta be honest here. I'm torn over how to feel about this. Thoughts? From the joint letter: [...]
Can anyone tell me WHY these guys are kissing Cheney's ass? I can understand why Peter Goo, er, I mean Peter Pull...er, I mean Potor Goss (sorry) would, he's a Corruptican's Corruptican....protect Cheney at all cost...and Tenet he's a Democrat turned Corruptican, he's at the heart of all of all this shit that Cheney's pulled, and Hayes, a Corruptican General chosen to keep it all from falling apart...The other ex-diectors, who knows...maybe getting kick-backs from the Corruptican Party, and their allies to support Cheney??? After all, no bucks for them, means no support for Cheney...! I feel sorry for the rank and file folks at CIA, they're honorable people trying to keep the country safe, but their leadership has been God awfull for a long, long time......time to kick ass, take names, and clean house, let the investigations begin...!
7 Ex-Torture Chiefs Discourage investigation into Their Crime Ring
Meant to spell Porter Goss, anyway, it's a name you can forget , really a nobody who did much of anything, except protect Cheney...
Seven ex-KKK Grand Wizards want Obama to drop racism probe
Surprise ! Surprise !
I'm heading out for the night. Out to spend some of those evil profits. Gee, I might even tip the valet, so long as he's not a negro. You kids have fun!
I didn't see Admiral Stansfield Turner's name on the letter, nor would I have expected to.
It plays like this: those guilty of torture under US law will be "hung". No if ands or buts--simple. The CIA know that a large percentage of them are guilty of this. So, is there "arm" twisting to "not" pursue ? Or, they are told , if you pursue this a "real" domino effect will follow, with heads rolling. In a chess game against a dumbfuck, this is the time you "kick" the table over.
I just found in the front foyer my new copy of the book JFK
and the Unspeakable — Why He Died And Why It Matters by James W.
Douglass, which I read about at the BradBlog on 9/11: Exclusive: 27-Year CIA Vet says Obama May
be Afraid of the CIA ... For Good Reason...
It talks about JFK with backchannels to Khrushchev and Castro, both sides'
leaders trying to get around their own hawks, and Kennedy paying the price for
it. The interview was part of Brad's hosting of the Mike Malloy show, and
the audio is available there. The relevant portion:
This is tantamount to admission that the United States has tortured and as far back as any of these Torquemada s reigned on our self righteous parade. The dirty little secret is that there are lots of dirty little and large secrets.
Speaking of torture...who would want to free Ann Coulter?
Now we know who to investigate first.
I am sure they do want the investigation stopped. So would I if I were looking at the prospect of doing some jail time. But hey guys. Not to worry. No one is ever jailed for anything anymore. Except those lower down on the food chain.
In fact they might give you all the medal of freedom. And by the way. Constitutionally speaking Mr. Holder does not have to pay any attention to the President regarding those who he investigates or prosecutes. He is supposed to be independent.
The President has long since forgotten his roots as a Constitutional law professor. He doesn't like the bother of prosecuting anyone. He likes to look forward only. So your probably safe. But I hope not. I long for a miracle of someone paying a price for torture, treason and crimes against the Constitution.
sgt_doom —
Where do you get that? The New York Times says,
"Let's not argue about who killed who...
This is supposed to be a *happy* occasion."
-- Monty Python and the Holy Grail
No one is too important to get away with conseqences of our actions even bush and cheney ..Either we face them now or in the afterlife..
Read Chalmers Johnson's trilogy, "Blowback", "The Sorrows of Empire" and "Nemesis" for in-depth background (amazing audiobooks, too)
I have feelings of dread....I think I should stop watching Mad Men....
Some of this is the same ole decieving, misleading coverup crap as usual. As example, future leaders may not be willing to take the necessary risks to protect this country.
Theirs is the same line of excuses given not to prosecute the telecoms for their roles in the illegal spying on Americans; "the next time we need the telecoms they might not cooperate."
Well, if they don't cooperate, then nationalize them ! After all, they will have as much to lose as the country itself.
What these guys are doing is covering their own butts.
You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
Put those seven assholes on the top of the list of investigation targets.
So, it's ok to wipe out enemy terrorists using predator drones, yet it's not ok to "knock the stuffing" out of a few to potentially save the lives' of countless innocents.
That, boyz & girls, is known as flawed logic! I wholeheartedly concur with this correspondence requesting that this "can of worms" not be opened.....it ain't eeeeeven worth it.
The three Britons who were recently convicted in the UK had plotted, with the "assistance" of others who have yet to be tried, to bring down as many as 10 jetliners. The death toll could have been in the thousands. If I had to thwart this plot, personally, I would have engaged in the "extraordinary interrogation techniques" if need be.
I have the 2004 audio of New YorkSenator Charles Schumer admitting that he, along with most, if not all, of his fellow senators would favor the "severe interrogation methods" necessary to save thousands of Americans.
Anyone on this, or any other board for that matter, is free to curse my stance. But what's really terrific is that, in the end, you're powerless over me. You cannot control my thoughts, my behavior, the positions I choose to take on a particular policy, et al. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
"should not be derailed by the self-serving protests of former CIA officials who oversaw the very crimes that are being investigated."
Again happy to send my monthly to ACLU — the best fighting force we have in this country.
— Card Carrier
silversurfer —
Those Britons "plotted" an impossible logistical operation with the "help" of agents provocateurs doing, in exchange for leniency on other matters, the bidding of plotters in the intel agencies, as is always the case.
These poor clowns didn't even have passports, never mind tickets.
Read up on WTC1 in '93. The patsy, Emad Salem, had enough sense to record his conversations with his FBI handlers, asking them "why didn't you substitute dummy explosive powder like you said you would?" He won his case, by the way.
For those who don't know the meaning of "patsy", it is actually originally pazzi, plural of pazzo, a crazy man. The mob has used pazzi as fall guys for staged crimes since the year 1. When they moved into the halls of government, why change what has worked so well on the street?
700 billion a year for intel. 200000 employees. and this is what we get>>>
ProudPrimate
That's the whole picture, the Malloy Show interview.
Agree, add the seven ex CIA Chiefs or Directors to the investigation and begin expanding it. Cheney will have to do time....in prison....or one of his Halburton built detention centers.....
silverasshole, I don't curse your stance. I curse you. You are scum.
A Worthless Bunch all of them, especially EX NSA Boss Mikie H., the Man who let 9-11 happen by not notifying the Feds AQ was in town pre 9-11. Please see James Bamford's Book "the Shadow Factory" and his TV Documentary "the Spy Factory" for details.
I think this says more about misunderstandings the former directors have about American law and system of government than anything else.
Pretty obvious that the CIA has repeatedly broken our Federal Torture Laws given their desperate attempts to keep the truth from coming out. CIA is looking like it is now more rogue than it was during the Nixon Administration. We need to get it under control before it starts disappearing people in the United States.
Given the CIA's willingness to use murder, kidnapping, rendition, and torture outside of the United States, in the future, with a complacent Congress or President it could happen here before we could stop it. CIA could quickly become too big and too dangerous to confront. Our citizens could become too afraid to protest and Congress and President too afraid to try to controll the CIA.
Cheney was not and anomaly, there are lots of Cheneys in America.
Rein CIA in Now!
KEEP ASKING ALL POLITICIANS AT ALL PUBLIC EVENTS
"WHY DO YOU SUPPORT TORTURE?"
If they aren't actively calling for enforcement of our Federal Torture Laws,
They ARE Supporting Torture.
.
SIGN THE PETITIONS
Demanding
both a Commission of Inquiry
and prosecution for all those leaders
in Bush's Administration that
Conspired to Torture at ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
.
Former CIA Directors with knowledge of many of the CIA's deeds,,now attempting to derail an investigation into Criminal activity by the CIA..
Book em Danno,,for aiding and abetting a cover-up..
Maybe they should find the former CIA men that have said,,"Al Queda was created by the CIA so that the US had a enemy"
To the post that said there worried about opening a pandora's box, of DECADES of mulitple crimes,,THEY ARE..
The CIA is GUILTY of so many crimes,,I would run out of space to write them...
But unknown to many Americans is the CIA operating in the United States of America..
They have infiltrated every State Department and many other agencies..
The CIA has been committing ATROCITIES upon the citizens of the United States of America for decades,,
Everything from assassination,experimentation,,Mk Ultra Control,etc.
I know this because I was at the receiving end of the CIA and so do the 7 former CIA directors know this...
At least 3 of these directors are guilty of the horrors that were committed upon me in the United States of America..
I'm trying to STRESS how the CIA is operating in the United States of America,Big and Large.
I am now under Protective Custody,,my evidence should be in the hands of the Special Investigator..
This agency controlled by the Illuminati Rockefeller, has committed Atrocities upon the citizens of the United States of America for DECADES...
They have technology called MK Ultra and during the 70's there was Congressional Hearing on this...
The response by the CIA was,,"F*ck you,,we destroyed all the evidence"...
It appears this pattern is the pattern of the CIA...
There is also another location in the USA where this technology is being operated out of,,,
Under the control of the Illuminati Rothschild,,and I think connected to Hughes Ind..
When NWO made there Declaration of War on the World, this was declared when Bush Jr. stepped into power...
The CIA and I believe Hughes Ind.under the control of the Rockefeller and Rothschild Illuminati,authorized a telephone connection via Mk Ultra..
The set-up started immediately after Bush Jr. was declared President by the Courts,,,
In April 2001 they announced they were in my home and implied they were the United States Secret Service,,,
From April 2001 until Nov 2004 the CIA and Hughes Ind. used me like a telephone until REAL law tapped them on the shoulder...
In this time frame they were discussing many things,,including 9/11,War,etc...
The CIA and Hughes Ind were discussing every detail of 9/11 months before 9/11,including the book Bush would be reading,,"My pet goat"..
That means the Trillion Dollar men,,Rockefeller and Rothschild are behind 9/11,along with there helpers the CIA and I believe Hughes Ind...
After the law wrestled me away starting Nov.2004,,the CIA along with the weight of the corrupt government have attempted to kill me thousands of times..
Many people I know are dead,,,
I had 2 Illuminati in my home,,
Special FBI agent Gunderson has documentation of the horrors of the Rothschild
Cathy O'brien has documentation of the horrors committed upon her by the CIA controlled by the Rockefeller's..
This is what the Rockefeller and Rothschild are trying to prevent from being exposed,
They don't give a toot if a few CIA go down for torture..
There trying to prevent there exposure and involvement in the BIGGEST ATROCITY EVER committed upon MANKIND...
The horror of what they have been doing for decades goes beyond there involvement in the assassination of JFK,,pre-planned 9/11,pre-planeed Iraq war,etc,etc.etc..
These 2 Illuminati with there helpers the CIA and Hughes Ind..have committed a crime upon humanity that pales all known history of atrocities...
It is that bad..
Special Agent Gunderson speaks about the ambitions,goals and Satanical of the Rothschild family,,
My husbands family and mine were selected for this,,
Along with that I was chosen as there storage disc of all there deeds,,,,
I am 54 and EVERYTHING from the Franklin Scandal,Oklahoma Bombing,Aritificial Earth Quake in California,Ruby Ridge,etc,etc,etc,,was all stored in our families and me...
Including the Rothschild Kabbalah Satanical..
After Bush Jr. won the election this is when the Rockefeller CIA stepped into my life,,
Every crime they have committed was stored threw me,,including there involvement of abduction of children...
This is the CONCERN and these 7 former CIA directors are very aware of many of the crimes that have been committed by the CIA and should be charged with aiding and abetting...
More over this is the concern of the Trillion Dollar men,,Rockefeller and Rothschild;s
They were even discussing how to torture the people in Iraq months before the war started...
I also know what they did to the men they had in prison ,and it goes beyond ANYTHING that has been exposed,,
I also know what they have been doing for decades to many citizens of the United States of America.
Under normal Protective Custody your hidden,,Mk Ultra makes the situation different..
But I still feel like a prisioner.
But at least i"m not being subjected to the CIA's Mk Ultra PAIN/Torture Program..
Mk Ultra needs suffering and pain to work,,
The following is what the CIA and Hughes Ind put me threw..
Cut off one of my arms,but please stop the pain
Cut off both of my arms,but please stop the pain
Cut off both of arms and one leg,but please stop the pain
Cuf off both arms,both legs,but please stop the pain
Cut off both arms,both legs and take my eye sight,but please stop the pain
Kill everybody I know including my children,but please stop the pain.
The bastard's continued.........
It was only the law stepping in that stopped the pain..
But there was a War,a wrestle,and that was h*ll too..
This is what the 7 former directors of the CIA are trying to prevent from being exposed,,,on behalf of the Rockefeller's and Rothschild's..
The ACLU should have some of my evidence,,
Around Jan.2005 I notified them months before the New York Times broke the story that,"Bush was Spying on Everybody Under National Security for Political Reasons"...Along with evidence of Mk Ultra and the government being in my home/life.
This happened in the wrestle phase,,
The law was helping me to try and get help..
The FBI under the corrupt Mueller accused me of threatening Bush.
The ACLU responded professionally,but said they had limited funds.
The MSMedia,,and I wrote THOUSANDS OF EMAILS AND HAND WRITTEN LETTERS,, never responded..
Except the automated response,,but that says my emails went threw..
With this technology the CIA took out my legs,,I didn't walk without pain for over 31/2 years,,until the law stepped in..
It took me 1 whole year to learn to walk again..
They beat on every internal and external organ/body part with this technology..
But unknown to the majority of citizens of the United States of America this technology in different degrees is being imposed upon them and there life...
The biggest lawsuit in US history will be filed by the citizens of the USA for crimes against humanity against the Rockefeller,Rothschild families and there helpers !
As I was storage of there deeds,,and know this technology,,along with how many years they imposed this technology upon the citizens of the USA,,,
I estimate the murder,crippling,and atrocities of US citizens to be many MILLIONS...
I'm tired now,,
This is hard for me,,to expose my life and relive what they did to me..
Our mind can forget pain,,such as the woman forgets the pain of delivery,this is good.
But I remember crawling because they hurt my legs that bad.
I remember eating with my fingers because I wasn't able to get the fork to my mouth.
I remember my sentence consisted of 2 words and being so proud when it was 3 words..
I remember crying from morning to night for 31/2 years and begging them to stop,,
They wouldn't stop hurting me..
I remember begging them to kill me everyday.
I remember having to use my hips to lift a can of coffee or my arms to lift my legs out of bed.
I remember taking 3 baths 2 hours long everyday in attempts to help the mental and physical pain they were inflicting.
The above is only a little of what they put me threw..
Another reminder of how this happened in the United States of America by the CIA,Hughes Ind,Rockefeller,and Rothschild's...
To "disappointed voter", I am soooo glad I'm not you. I get to surf southern California for thirty years. I was raised in Topanga Canyon, I now reside in Santa Monica and I've been gettin' barrelled since 1979 all up and down the California coast from Point Conception to the Mexican border and beyond.
But you, "disappointed voter" are really good at what - calling people names?
Check this smart guy, I've been living in so Cal for 40 years - endless surf, beach volleyball, baseball, softball, basketball, concerts, sporting events, blistering bashes, golf, tennis, hiking, waterskiing, dancing my a** off at screaming nightclubs, karaoke bars, sports bars, pool halls, pubs, running, fishing.
"disappointed voter", my life has been an "E" ticket. I have an attitude of gratitude, and you - you're good at calling people names. You could call me scum to my face, smart guy, but then you'd have to deal with the hellacious backlash......Jackson.
Have a ripping weekend, cause I sure as h*ll will.....
The CIA Seven are intellectual warmongers of the unAmerican type.
dennycrane —
"That's the whole picture, the Malloy Show interview."
I know, huh? What's the use?
But if enough of the American people knew that, it would be a different world.
(and if water would run up hill, right?)
Silversurfer,
Committing evil in order to defeat evil, you believe will create good? THAT is flawed logic. To torture anyone is bad enough, but many of the so-called "terrorists" were innocent of the crimes for which they were charged. And many of the 100+ people that were tortured to death by "our side" were most likely innocent of the crimes for which they were charged.
Also, you seem to be of the opinion that just by being accused of something makes one guilty--that is pretty goddamned adverse to our American principles and values. We have all been raised to believe that in a democratic society, a person is innocent until PROVEN guilty.
Torture is wrong for any reason, you fuck, and it has been proven to be ineffective and often produces false leads, because tortured people will say or do anything just to stop the torture.
It makes me sick to think how many people like yourself that live in democratic societies, embrace the concept of torture, which is an egregious violation of a person's rights and completely adverse to the principles of democracy.
Silversurfer,
Furthermore, I do not think that our govt using predator drones is right because far too many innocent men, women and children (so-called "collateral damage") are being killed as a result. In fact, I don't think we should be in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan or anywhere else in the ME--period. Our presence has done nothing but turn millions of peoples' lives into a living hell. You name one good thing that has been accomplished for those people as a result of America's presence in that region.
Seriously, it isn't like Obama is actually trying to get to the bottom of this torture mess. He works hard every day to protect Bush and Cheney and to preserve their torture apparatus.
This bogus CIA story is just theater to con dumb dumb dumb Obama worshipers into having a plausible excuse for the despicable acts of their messiah. And of course this story is being repeated and reinforced by rawstory without context or anything resembling journalism.
kayttt2000
If not for the blunder of the financial records (700+ pages) being archived in a different place, Richard Helms would have destroyed them too, and the Church and Pike committees would never have been in a position to reveal MKULTRA at all.
And you, my dear, would be "just another nutcase with a vivid imagination".
Thank heaven for small favors.
Yes, he was a staged event.
My pet Baphomet . . .
I know Kathy OBrien's story — I reference her on my (much neglected) website.
What I have trouble understanding is, how does the law have this much power? I am very surprised, and encouraged to read it. But can you be more specific? Are there really powers still remaining in the people's hands?
I send them my paltry $12.50 a month. But if everyone would, there would be more than enough.
"just theater to con dumb dumb dumb Obama worshipers"
You're including Ray McGovern? Do you even know who he is, or anything besides white bread and lard sandwiches?
Well whaddaya know about that? Big Zio shadow government doesn't want anybody investigating Big Zio shadow government's criminal activities.
Given that they planned and carried out 9-11 with the help of Israeli Mossad I don't suppose we should find this particularly surprising.
Here is a collection (downloadable) of documents relating to warrantless domestic surveillance during the Bush administration, and before:
http://thewall.civiblog.org/rsf/nsa.html
General Michael Hayden implemented warrantless NSA surveillance, then was confirmed as DCI, after Congressional Hearings hobbled by last second "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" briefings to the Committee Members to confine and limit their questioning of Hayden in his confirmation hearings.
So, yeah. Sure. We should be quiet and look the other way. Now really, General Hayden. Your confirmation hearing targets got the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" briefings. We didn't. Neither did AG Holder.
So, Mike. Just sit down over there and shut the fuck up while you sit there ... and wait until you are called. Just like every other respondent to this investigation.
Sir.
-dcm
Hayden — that's the guy who looks like Elmer Fudd, right? The guy that didn't know the 4th Amendment makes probable cause the standard for a warrant, as confirmed by Justice Potter Steward in Katz v United States (1967), where in the majority opinion he wrote
once AL-CIA-DA popped a dossier on Obombaton's desk with some really good, crystal clear pics of John F. Kennedy with his brains missing, dead fish look in his eyes, I'm sure Obombaton started to immediately gulp for air like a fish out of water.
the AL-CIA-DA is the de-facto 'enforcement apparatus' of the illuminati who control the world, and it murders whomever it wishes to achieve control.
Obombaton knows that. He and his co-puppet, Bidet man, know this.
neither wants to have that 'dead fish look' in their own eyes too very soon.
and that's exactly what they'll get if they cross these SKULL N BONES boys.
you know it and marionette boy knows it!
@95ProudPrimate "Hayden — that's the guy who looks like Elmer Fudd, right?" Yes, and he is the Ugly Coward and Traitor who let 9-11 happen and was derelict in his duties too, by not protecting America and her blessed Constitution. Please see James Bamford's Book "the Shadow Factory" and his TV Documentary "the Spy Factory" for details. But, he is in good "Company" with Liars, Punks, Cheats, Pedophiles, Drug Runners and Perverts but all good CIA Men.
TO the writer above with the longish name —
I would offer this quote from the book I mentioned early on in this thread, JFK and the Unspeakable — Why He Died And Why It Matters by James W. Douglass:
"Before he initiated his all-out campaign for the approval of the test ban, Kennedy told his staff that the treaty was the most serious congressional issue he had faced. He was, he said, determined to win, if it cost him the 1964 election. He did win. But did it cost him his life?" (P.54)
Kennedy had delivered his post missile-crisis speech of conciliation to the Russians at American University (text and audio here, 26:52) without letting anyone outside of a few speechwriters including Ted Sorenson and Arthur Schlesinger, know that he was undercutting that "military industrial complex" that Ike had warned us about 874 days prior. There are many video clips available of Ike's speech in addition to the grainy full length one, but one that should not be missed is this short segment from Why We Fight by Eugene Jarecki.
Kennedy promised in his American University speech:
Earlier, the Cuban Missile Crisis had forced JFK to make unpopular decisions. Page 30:
Amy Goodman had Daniel Ellsberg on Wednesday talking about the new documentary The Most Dangerous Man in America: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers, and he goes into detail about his risk.
Clips from the lead-in include the following:
Obama has already taken significant risks, no, not to the country but to his own survival, just this week, by reducing the threat to Russia — dejà vu — and with his conciliatory Cairo speech, and with his mere blackness, diluted though it be.
My hope is that he lives long enough to accomplish uneradicable inroads into the heart of the beast, makes marks that cannot be erased, even in death, if he should follow Kennedy and Lincoln into the Right Wing's Hatred Hall of Fame.
ProudPrimate (#98),
Very interesting comment. With regard to Obama's safety, I think if something were to happen to Obama, unlike Kennedy, people would be enraged and not so easily duped into believing the "lone gunman" scenario this time around. If Obama does sufficiently piss off unknowns to the point they decide to off him, I think that will cause such a tremendous uproar that their house of cards will collapse. Too many people are on to them these days for them to so easily get by with murdering one of our presidents once again.
I must say I was struck by the recent article about how our military leadership is "losing patience" with Obama over Afghanistan. I mean, Obama (whether they like it or not) is the Commander-In-Chief and as such, their boss. I think there is the possibility that as President, Obama is being undermined at every opportunity and I think it would behoove him to watch his back.
Every one of the men signing this document belongs on a Wall of Shame. They are the poster children that head up the roster of those who have dragged the name of this country through the mud - not to mention through the blood and tears of those whose grotesque abuse they facilitated.
Shame on each and every one of you. You lost any right to an opinion on what should be done to keep this country safe when you either promoted, or failed to derail, the egregious program of torture that left Eric Holder - and so many of the rest of us - sick at heart and sick to our stomachs - at what was done in our name. You do not speak for us, and we don't give a damn what you believe.
If you sincerely care about the CIA as an Agency - and not just your own sorry hides - you would want nothing more than to see whether or not individual agents overstepped the bounds of the orders they were given - or whether they were simply following orders from those "above their pay grades."
And if this is the case, and I believe in the vast majority of cases it probably was, then George Bush, Dick Cheney, John Yoo, David Addington, Jay Bybee, et al should spend the rest of their sorry lives in jail. You're not concerned for the men and women under your command - you're just worried that the trail of tears is going to lead straight back to you.
yvonne (#99) —
It would definitely be harder for them now, most of all because of the existence of the internet. Just as the case can be made that the Reformation, beginning with Luther's 95 theses being nailed to the door of his church at Wittenberg, would have failed and his fate would have been that of Hus before him, were it not for Gutenberg and his movable type printing system, I feel strongly that major changes in history are largely pivoted on technological changes.
And as Peter Dale Scott said to Stephen Lendman last week on the Global Research News Hour (subscription at RBN), there was a big push a while back to relegate non-Empire web traffic to the slow lane and effectively crowd out this wonderful engine of democracy, but nothing has come of it. And besides, there is now so much economic traffic and commerce invested in it, it will be very hard for them to choke it off, because they will be eating their own tail before long.
These are reasons to hope, but also reasons to do anything but slow down our efforts to make the cocker-spaniel-brained electorate begin to become aware of the history of this Secret Rogue Government that sprang out of the State Security Act of 1947, in particular not the intelligence gathering branch but the covert branch of the intel community, which answers to no one, and, à la Ollie North and John Poindexter, informs no one, not even the head of state whose wishes they are ostensibly serving, of what they do, how they do it, where they get the money, or how many people, or countries, are destroyed in the process.
But of supreme importance is making the connection of these rogue agents with their actual owners, which are the major corporations, and the old money, whether here or in the old country.
Susan Kidder (#100) —
I played Bill Moyers' The Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis for my ex today which she had never seen, and I noted how Sen. Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, himself a combat hero of WWII, answered Ollie North who was saying (at 1:08:30, ff.):
to which Inouye said:
RE #101:
I meant to say "National Security Act of 1947"
RE #102: again, sorry for buggering up the HTML. I'm going to start composing on Windows Mail from now on, so I can see what I've got before I post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0M4J849dmA
(((3)))
COward O. North wrote the Pre Patriot Act in the 1980s.
To all of you belly-aching tit-sacking libs acting under this sanctimonious mantle of justice: The next time we are attacked on our own turf, who then are you going to call on. Who will you point the finger at then. We will have no one out there to forwarn us, because twits like YOU have made it impossible to do their JOB!!!!!!
The efforts of these Intelligence Veterans is appreciated.
The rest of us could help them
by doing weekly protests and vigils to keep Torture Prosecution in front of the voters. If we can get indictments for torture it will lead to investigations for other Bush/Cheney crimes. Torture is the admitted and obvious low hanging fruit.
Get out in the streets in front of your Congressional Representative's office and raise hell.
Start your own "prosecution" protest group.
KEEP ASKING ALL POLITICIANS AT ALL PUBLIC EVENTS
"WHY DO YOU SUPPORT TORTURE?"
If they aren't actively calling for enforcement of our Federal Torture Laws, They DO Support Torture and a dual standard of Justice.
SIGN THE PETITIONS
Demanding
prosecution for all those leaders
in Bush's Administration that Conspired to Torture at ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
Only Prosecution Stops Torture,
Abuse of Power, our Constitution, & Rule Of Law