UPDATE
The South Carolina Republican who yelled "You lie!" at President Barack Obama during the president's speech on health care Wednesday night has issued an apology, CNN's Political Ticker reports.
"This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President’s remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill," Joe Wilson (R-SC) stated. "While I disagree with the President’s statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the President for this lack of civility."
However, Wilson's apology wasn't quite fast enough to stop his rival in next year's election from almost immediately cashing in on the controversy, as Michael Roston reports on his True/Slant blog.
As of press time at 11 pm ET, Democratic challenger Rob Miller had raised $8,600 online for his campaign, under the title "Defeating the man who yelled liar at Obama: Goodbye Rep. Joe Wilson."
ORIGINAL STORY FOLLOWS BELOW
President Barack Obama was heckled during his speech to Congress Wednesday.
In his address on health care to a joint session of Congress Wednesday night, the president said: "There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false – the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."
That was met with a chorus of boos from some Republican congresspeople. As the booing died down, a voice could be heard yelling out "You lie!"
The president stopped momentarily, glanced in the direction of the noise, and continued with the speech.
CNN initially reported that the person who yelled out was Rep. Joe Wilson, Republican of South Carolina. Glenn Thrush at Politico confirmed this.
In an interview with CNN moments after the speech, Sen. John McCain said the heckle was "totally disrespectful. [There's] no place for it in that setting or any other setting, and he should apologize immediately."
--David Edwards and Daniel Tencer
This video is from CNN, broadcast Sept. 9, 2009.
If a person in the gallery shouted out something like that "you lie" that person would have been excorted out of the chamber. Same should apply to this congressperson!
The range of facial expressions in that image is priceless.
censure should be called for.
http://joewilson.house.gov
call your congressional delegates and demand censure.
It is really shameful how the right has degraded the institution of the Congress. This kind of behavior has no place in our legislative process and apparently neither do the republicans anymore.
The lack of clear vision on the part of the Republicans is astounding.
This is the letter I sent to President Obama.
Dear President Obama,
Thank you for your stand on health care. In July of 2003 my husband was laid off from his job. He'd worked his entire career as a computer programmer and the jobs were disappearing. We thought it would be forever. On September 29th I was diagnosed with breast cancer. We were on COBRA and soon we would be on nothing.
A person who has never been in a position such as ours can't understand. Having health care is more than the ability to be healthy, remain healthy and become healthy again. It is so much more. During that time of trial, of calamity, I felt as if my family was disappearing from the landscape of America. We had lost our worth in the land of promise. My health, my body was betraying me and dragging my family into ruin.
My country responded to our plight with the hope of no jobs for a man in middle age. The insurance industry responded by telling me I was a "precondition". I stopped being human. I was a precondition. To my benefit I was a resident, excuse me, my condition was a resident of Minnesota where a "precondition" had to be offered affordable health care.
Thankfully we plodded through the nightmare but I remember moments of deep and dire despair. I remember sitting near the creek on a spring day and watching the rusty color grass move in the cold breeze and flowing water sparkle in the sun and I said to my husband, "All I want is to be able to get into the canoe and worry about nothing other than what is around the next bend." That was all I wanted.
Every American deserves hope. Is it too much to ask that in the darkest moments of life our fellow man will be there to support us?
And by the way, this is America. When did we stop believing we could do anything we put our minds to? When did we put boundaries on what we could accomplish? I BELIEVE we can have affordable and good health care for all who need it. I believe that.
Still pretty sanitized compared to way these sorts of events used to go in the early years of the USA. Back in those times this would have been viewed as an unusually smooth affair. The US' prepackaged Hollywood politics are a blatant puppet show.
Well, how could he respect the president, after all, he's a nigger. (if you could get Joe in private that is)
I can imagine that if the shoe were on the other foot (a democrat representative had yelled 'you lie!' to a republican president) the republican talking heads would be screaming "TREASON!" and the rep would be forced to resign.
(moderator, can you please delete my first two attempts? i apologize for posting before proofreading)
Thats Republicans for you. They show no respect at all.
Wow, what a glare from Nancy. Wilson is in trouble when he gets back to the House, lol
Yet ANOTHER classy move by a republican. Like lying about what the bill contained before there was even one on the table. Like lying about Iraq so that W could play "wartime president". Like the scumbag in CA who just resigned for not only having several affairs with lobbyists, but then bragging about it. Like Mark Foley the child molester. Like Larry "wide stance" Craig. Like Vitter, like W, like Cheney, etc, etc, etc.
I'd like to see ANY time when a democrat did that to W, a piece of shit who really deserved it.
Apologize for it?!? He should be censured by the senate!
Rep. Joe Wilson has just made a name for himself.
Guess what that name is...
How dare he speak to our god-king in such a way! He must be stoned!
*rolls eyes
I wish a Democrat had yelled "You lie!" at any of Bush's countless now confirmed lies.
Wilson should apologize immediately then resign his position. His outburst was juvenile and disrespectful not just of our President but also of the Office of the President. Never before has such ignorance been displayed when a President addressed Congress as Obama did tonight. Wilson acted more like he was at a keg party or a Clan meeting and I am disgusted by his outrageous behavior.
Article 246 specifically states that illegals would NOT be covered with federal dollars - that makes Wilson the liar.
Representative Wilson need to publicly apologize to the President. There is no excuse for a lack of civility by an elected member of Congress, regardless of party. Hate, lies, sarcastic comments, nastiness, and fear, don't impress the majority of Americans. We lived with this ignorance for to long and it has to stop now. It's the only thing that really trickled down in the last 8 years. Those years are over now. We going to move this country to a brighter future, no matter what.
Representative Wilson needs to publicly apologize to the President. There is no excuse for a lack of civility by an elected member of Congress, regardless of party. Hate, lies, sarcastic comments, nastiness, and fear, don't impress the majority of Americans. We lived with this ignorance for to long and it has to stop now. It's the only thing that really trickled down in the last 8 years. Those years are over now. We going to move this country to a brighter future, no matter what.
Racist ignorance thy name is Republican.
Nice touch...republicans, classy as always.
Can we stop playing with them now?
Joe Wilson R (SC)
The Midlands' Office • 1700 Sunset Blcd (US 378), Suite 1 • West Columbia, SC 29169 • Phone: (803) 939-0041 • Fax: (803) 939-0078
The Lowcountry Office • 903 Port Republic Street • Beaufort, SC 29902 • Phone: (843) 521-2530 • Fax: (843) 521-2535
Washington Office • 212 Cannon House Office Building • Washington, DC 20515 • Phone: (202) 225-2452 • Fax: (202) 225-2455
Washington, D.C. Office:
212 Cannon House Office Building,
District of Columbia 20515-4002
Phone: (202) 225-2452
Fax: (202) 225-2455
Beaufort Office: (more district offices)
903 Port Republic Street
Beaufort, South Carolina 29902
Phone: (843) 521-2530
Fax: (843) 521-2535
Beaufort Office:
903 Port Republic Street
Beaufort, South Carolina 29902
Phone: (843) 521-2530
Fax: (843) 521-2535
West Columbia Office:
1700 Sunset Boulevard (US 378), Suite 1
West Columbia, South Carolina 29169
Phone: (803) 939-0041
Fax: (803) 939-0078
Residence: West Columbia
Marital Status: Married (Roxanne)
Prev. Occupation: Attorney
Prev. Political Exp.: SC Senate, 1985-2001
Military: USAR, 1972-75; SCANG, 1975-2003
Education: BA Washington and Lee University, 1969; JD University of South Carolina, 1972
Birthdate: 07/31/1947
Birthplace: Charleston, SC
Religion: Presbyterian
Percentage in Last Election: 54%
Major Opponent: Rob Miller
Pelosi is gonna klll that guy> omg
Great example of how disrespectful our Law Makers are to the Preisdent of the United States. Just think if any Law Maker did this to Bush during his speeches. No wonder the kids are disrespectful and wild as they are using our Law Makers as examples to follow. We will have another President and he will be White and maybe Republcian and you can bet he will be shown respect.
So what else is new? We've known for a long time that the Republican Party relied on high school drop outs, religious fanatics and white supremacists to stay in office. No one can expect the bottom feeders that still troll the depths of the Republican party to have breeding superior to the white trash who elect them.
the man is a total jerk. the repubs are stuck with these a$$holes & will suffer a a result.
"In politics, stupidity is not a handicap."
Napoleon Bonaparte
Obama should immediatey open up serious 911 Investigations and Torture Prosecutions and destroy the Repubicunts once and for all.
Playing nice with these assholes will get you nowhere.
and no i'm not drinking the Obama Koolaid. he's a Wall Street Puppet.
On Politico.com:
WILSON APOLOGIZES: The South Carolina Republican who interrupted the president's speech with a shout of "Lie!", issued the following statement apologizing --
“This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President’s remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill. While I disagree with the President’s statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the President for this lack of civility.”
Joe Wilson is a hero because he has enough guts to tell the truth. He just won his seat in 2010.
I believe in a two party system, but why the republicans?
Would not the Greens/Progressives provide a better 'loyal opposition'
to our current 'center/right' leaning Democratic party?
At least they have useful ideas that don't require shouting out and
disrupting public events to get their point across.
The republicans have proven themselves nothing more than well
financed, well dressed thugs in my opinion...rabid brownshirts sowing
chaos for their own ends...the whining child crying out for attention.
Behold today's Repugnantcan party. So utterly, completely, unalterably, inexcusably vile. May their stinking hollow corpses rot in hell.
Wilson's website just crashed.
http://joewilson.house.gov/
Obama is not the first President to bend the truth to push their personal agenda on the U.S. citizens - case and point the War in Iraq for Weapons of Mass Destruction- as far as the congressman that disrepectfully blurted out the "you lie" comment, he should publically apologize and then resign... his political influence has been forever scared after that momentary lapse of reason he displayed tonight. RUSH LIMBAUGH 4 PRESIDENT 2012
Republicans need to change their avatar from an elephant to a PIG.
He "happens" to be from a southern state, no racism there. Just another coincidence! Like all the southern schools had opt-outs of Obama's speech to kids!No racism here, he just "happens" to be from South Carolina!
[...] Republican yells ‘You lie!’ at President Obama during speech [...]
"Oh, goodness, how dare you insult the king by telling the truth."-stereotypical Obamanoid. I wish all of our representatives called it like they see it like that. My only regret is that it's too many assholes too late. From LBJ onward everyone of our representatives should have been tearing into these pimps for the upper 1% like this. What's funny is that if a Democrat had done it to Bush (if only these cowards would have) all of you would be ecstatic (and you should be.) Face it the only reason most of you are upset is because Obama is a Democrat, period. Yet you still support him even though he once again just sold you down the river. And just to add, it is truly pathetic that you would call this guy a racist just because he's from the south. Stereotyping is a similar form of ignorance akin to racism, so take your hypocrisy and shove it.
If your name is Joe Wilson and you think the president is lying, this is how you are supposed to call him out on it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/06/opinion/06WILS.html
Shouting at him from the cheap seats, OTOH, is just Not Done.
It wasn't all that long ago when declaring ones opposition to the policies of a president in a time of war was tantamount to treason, a demonstration of ones hatred for one's country and a sure sign of a willingness to aid terrorists. Funny how things change. Wilson's existence stands as a warning to all guys contemplating sex with a close relative.
So is yelling "you lie!" is disrespectful, but openly booing the President is not?
Full Video, Text Of Obama's Speech
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/obama-health-care-speech_n_281265.html
Wilson is a Hero to all Idiots of the USA.
The reverent attitude of the people who are mad about this is more scary than the guy who yelled "liar". Of course Obama lies, he's a politician. They all do it.
The president is not our leader. He is the leader of the executive branch of the government. Congress is a co-equal branch whose job is to legislate, so why is he pushing legislation anyway?
And they all work for us, not the other way around so why all the reverence?
The distance we have travelled from our founding principles is long indeed...
Another racist neanderthal from S.C.?
Who new!
JGer
It is really shameful how the right has degraded the institution of the Congress. This kind of behavior has no place in our legislative process and apparently neither do the republicans anymore.
Open a damn history book liberal you dont know what your talking about. A Democrat clubbed a Republican near to death before the Civil War. Over slavery. Preston Brooks you ever heard his name well if not google it. You even kno w when that took place? Probably not. Its in alla your liberal history book's just look it up.
The liberal's alway's get worked up when you criticize one a their's but they act like history just began yesterday. Sorry liberal it didnt. Republican's didnt "degraded" Congress the Democrat Party did it when it rammed through socialistic laws under Roosevelt and Johnson when it impeached President Nixon when them Democrat's made George W. Bushs life a living hell. Oh sorry you forgot that. Hell the Democrats wouldnt even convict a man who perjered himself under oath. Forgot about that his name was Billy Bob Clinton you know the liberal's great love before St. Obamessiah come along.
Nevermind.
The people chooses to be F R E E D O M
which comes with a GOP guarantee.
President Bush openly lied in the publics face even when there was proof he was lying yet not one person ever called Bush a liar during one of his TV Speeches. We were told the US did not torture, or use secret prisoners or transport detainees to foreign jails to be tortured. We have now learned Bush lied. What would have happen to a citizen or Law Maker who stood up and called President Bush a liar while he was talking to Congress live on TV? We've had 44 US Presidents and only Obama has been shown total disrespect by Law Makers, is it that clear what the problem really is?
CNN Poll: Double-digit post-speech jump for Obama plan
Posted: September 9th, 2009 11:05 PM ET
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Two out of three Americans who watched President Barack Obama's health care reform speech Wednesday night favor his health care plans — a 14-point gain among speech-watchers, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation national poll of people who tuned into Obama's address Wednesday night to a joint session of Congress.
#36 "Ya'll would be cheering IF you had done it!" Stereotypical monkey. But no one ever did, huh? Not in the deepest darkest years of Bush's lying to Congress and the American people did a member of Congress violate the traditional decorum of the presidential address to a joint session and try to shout him down, did they? So take your brain dead bullshit hypotheticals and shove them, Parker.
Parker, the difference between Obama and Bush is that Bush was actually lying, constantly, about torture, starting wars, illegal spying on Americans, etc. In this case, as usual, it's the Repug who's lying. Get the difference? No, probably not... . By the way, here's an interesting little video on your hero, Bush:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VddD6TDFCoI
This was a calculated ploy, playing for the racist home team in South Carolina.
This man is a lawyer. He has been a judge. He was a colonel in the reserves. He served under Strom Thurman.
The point I am making is this. Mr. Wilson is someone who has learned to control his emotions. He has been in the courtroom as both a lawyer and a judge. He has been in the discipline of the military.
He had a transcript of the speech before it was presented, or at least that is the standard operating procedure.
I believe he decided to make this outburst before the speech was ever even started.
He knows who his constituents are. He knows they are simple racists. He knows they like it when someone defies the new black president.
This guy is not an emotionally out of control zealot. He is a snake, cooly working his evil magic on his constituents.
And for that, I cooly say, Fuck You Mr. Wilson.
I didn't think it was possible. A Republican went to far and actually had to apologize for something that didn't have to do with sex. Maybe there's hope for them yet.
I don't understand why everyone is so upset. This is, after all, theatre. It is nothing more than WWF Wrestling but without the fancy costumes. Quite frankly, I would enjoy it more if they wore costumes as I might as well get some entertainment from their show.
All this was tonight was a bit of entertainment for the slaves brought to you by the people we think run things. The only way we'll ever get out of this mess is to do the following.
1. Stop Voting. Stop legitimizing the system - do not participate in it. When you vote, you assign responsibility to others. Take that responsibility yourself. Ignore these clowns and focus on making your community and country a better place.
2. Fall off the grid if possible. Try to become as self sufficient as possible. They can't take what you don't have so life a simpler life.
3. Get to know your neighbors. Many people live trapped inside of their homes and do not even know their neighbors. Talk to them. Start with the things that we have in common and give them something other than Fox News to think about.
4. Remove your kids from public school and encourage others to do the same. Public school is a waste of time and does nothing in the way of helping our young people develop good character.
5. Turn off your television set - forever.
Remember, the same arguments people give you for government are the EXACT same arguments the South gave for why it was necessary to keep slaves.
"If we freed our slaves then they would starve because they do not know how to take care of themselves."
"If we free them, they'll turn on us and kill us."
Defenders of slavery argued that if all the slaves were freed, there would be widespread unemployment and chaos. This would lead to uprisings, bloodshed, and anarchy.
Wake up.
WATCH: Robert Reich Explains The Public Option In 70 Seconds
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/robert-reich-explains-the_n_280639.html
Study: Bush Tax Cuts Cost More Than Twice As Much As Dems' Health-Care Bill
By Susie Madrak Wednesday Sep 09, 2009 10:00am
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/study-bush-tax-cuts-cost-more-twice-m
Full text: Letter Kennedy wrote Obama before death
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/full-text-kennedy-letter-to-obama-before-death/
This guy should be given a medal for having the integrity to call Obama out! Obama being anything but a power hungry socialist / communist is a joke. I'm not sure if Obama has ever said something honest other than his name.
If you watched the speech, you'll notice he tried to blame Bush for "this huge deficit" - yet he totally ignored the fact that three months into the year, Obama had already spent more money than Bush did in 8 years.
Those who say "but he's the President!" - so? You respect people based on their actions and character - Obama has shown that he's not worthy of respect, therefore he shouldn't get any, regardless of what job title he holds.
I'm upset that Obama didn't just call the guy out for his uncalled for interruption and lack of wanting to be bipartisan and seeking a solution to Americans without health insurance, then politely ask him to leave.
Instead the President took the higher road and this guy is getting called a hero by the wrong wing.
Parker -
I disagree somewhat. I think both parties should be respectful to the President during these speeches, and in all areas of the house/senate.
I'm all for the people of the United States dissenting all they want, as loudly as they want, with signs etc. I'm in full support of Republicans doing everything to Obama that Democrats did to Bush. I'm in full defense of things like the Obama joker poster.
The people in congress can and SHOULD dissent when they disagree with the president or anyone, absolutely. Just not in the way Joe Wilson did it. If we allowed tempers to fly like that all the time, nothing would ever get accomplished, you know that.
It would be worse than the physical fights seen in videos like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0FLCcYVB_w
It seems the Republicon Gang has been lying constantly all of August.
Death Panels etc.
America needs Republicans like a dog needs fleas.
http://www.RepublicansAreADisease.com
HEY! REMEMBER THIS?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9To30Hz7A
I believe what he done were being a true AmeriCAN. He done what he were supposed to do. I love them RepubliCANs. They done do it all right. I can't wait until Palin gets her chance to put my Country back white, I mean right again. Them democraps done "Took 'er jobs!" (This response is from the typical Fox News card carrying Republican.)
You stay classy Republicans.
The ironic thing is, Bush lied like hell throughout his entire presidency (as did Reagan), and the Dems were not only respectful, but most of them fell all over themselves trying to kiss his ass.
Liberals have a tough time with dissent when it's been hurled their way.
Theft-masquerading-as-"hope", thy name is democrat.
On CSPAN, I've watched Cons go into hyperdrive and put Censure on Dems for saying critical remarks about Bush.
Frankly, an apology is required (and has been offered), but a Censure should be demanded. Wilson's actions were disrespectful and disgusting.
These people need to be removed from the field, and not allowed to participate anymore. They are deliberately trying to destroy this country for personal gain. NONE of them vote in the interest of the actual people of this country... only for multinational corporations, banks, and the investor class.
Ha! The shock of a politician shouting "you lie" in the Hallowed Halls of Congress made each and every member wonder if the accusation was directed at them.
Of course obama lied. He is a professional liar.
Of course the shouting lout is also a liar.
They are all liars, even the good guys.
It is all empty political theater, meant to keep us focused on the bullshit battle between left/right.
Both sides want us to ignore the real battle which is and has always been the battle of up/down.
Forgive my cynicism but when was "single payer" replaced by "public option"?
I am soooo disappointed in what passes for opposition in this brainwashed society.
It is no secret that Barry's healthcare farce includes coverage for law breaking illegal aliens, in fact the plan is amnesty and yes he is a stinking liar! I just wish all the Republicans would have yelled it out and I regret that Wilson apologized to the disgraceful occupant of the White House.
Shocked and angered, yes; surprised? Hell no!
These Republilcans today are in the process---have BEEN in the process for several years now---of shredding to pieces everything this country holds dear....including fairplay, common decency, and the idea of showing respect even when parties disagree (not to mention the constitution, and even truth). Even throughout the 8 LO-O-O-NG years of shredding and dissembling by Bush and Cronies, no one EVER acted like this during his speeches to congress. No boo-ing, no shouts of "Lies!" or "False!" even in the face of obvious lies. The office was respected, despite the pitiful stature of the "man" holding it. Though we at home were often yelling at the TV, and WISHING someone one call him out---no one ever did: out respect for the office, and, ergo, for the man in the office.
But there was even more at play in those times so very recently past; Democrats/Liberals/Progressives are almost always the ones willing to come up with the ways to make a compromise work (the true art of politics)---but these Republicans, for many years now, have made it into a "take no prisoners, make no compromise" kind of cultural war. For them, it's "my way, or the highway....and earn my enmity."
This guy Wilson from So.Carolina is just the newest, latest boil to fester up on the diseased skin of the Republican party. His apology is just a good strategic move, and means absolutley nothing, for I truly doubt that there is any true repentance in the heart. "To repent" means "to say the same thing about," and in the full Biblical meaning, carries with it the idea of "turning aside from the old path."
If I am wrong, and if there is true repentance in his heart and in the apology, then we will see a "turning aside from the old path." He could resign, or barring that, show a total turn-around in his arrogant, racist, pandering ways.
But I think it'll be a CO-O-O-O-LD day in HELL before we see or hear anything like that from such a prick! And watch all the other self-righteous, lying, cheating pricks close ranks around him! I'd wager we will hear nary a word but of support from all his good Rpublican colleagues! Close ranks....march! Dress Right....Dress! Right face....March! Double-time.....March! Don't think, just run!
Straight to the Kool-Aid.
Why all the demands for him to resign? I don't doubt for one second that he felt then and now that he was voicing exactly what most of his constituents would like to say if given the opportunity. His primary job is to represent his district, not his fellow pols.
The R's always seem late to the show when it comes to minority party antics and tantrums. His little outburst may be new, but only when the D's eventually become the minority party again will we see the bottom of the barrel of low-brow and classless tactics adjusted lower again.
GOP white trash in 3000.00 suits
Ok, if "You Lie" is accepted during a Presidential speech the the entire nation then can we post date at least 100 of those for when Bush was in office so the other side of the aisle gets a posthumous chance at screaming at former President Bush? It has to be televised though. Scratch that, the cable lines at Crawford Ranch have been severed long ago...
I glad he did it. Why? It shows we get nowhere unless we stick together. As corny as it sounds, we really ARE in this all together. Really. The examples that President Barack Obama cited in his speech are only scratching the surface of what has become the story of survival for many in the US. We all know it. My own father has to travel to Canada to get his meds cheaper that in the US. Seniors here in Southern California routinely go to Mexico (Senior bus excursions) to get meds their insurance won't cover because they are too expensive. Nothing Obama said was new to me, or was it news to ANYONE except Senator Wilson? Let's not forget those convenient web sites we all know about. SHHH!!!!!!
If we are to have a system that works, the Senator Joe Wilson's behavior cannot be tolerated. It leads to a dead end. Then we get into the kind of bickering that you find in any pool hall or common corner bar and has no place in leadership and respect. He is entrusted to a higher standard, and if he is incapable of containing himself, perhaps he should consider another line of work. I would be FIRED if I acted in such a manner in my job, and I am no where near the category of how I think a Senator (who is elected and entrusted as a leader) should behave. No one is perfect, Senator Wilson has apologized, so it's time to move on and get something done for A CHANGE. Get it? If there was ever a time for a change, NOW is it.
The President was addressing the entire nation. For Senator Wilson to ASSume that we all share his view is awfully presumptuous and rather boorish to say the least. I want to know about him, A LOT about him now. And let's not pigeonhole the people from South Carolina by Wilson's actions. If all the news crews went there, I'm sure they'd find people just as upset in South Carolina at Wilson's behavior as anywhere else. I know there are good beaches there and good food, so if I lived there myself I would know for sure Wilson would quack louder that Benedict Ahhnold but birds of a feather......well you know the rest...lest we make the rich unhappy.
This shit gets us no where. Unfortunately his behavior does not advance us towards a constructive and productive way to solve the crisis that is our nations healthcare. This really IS bigger than government. It's about people caring for one another. We are the only so-called "advanced" Western nation that has a health care system that quite literally kills it's own with the system we currently have in place.
Obama brought up several common sense ideas that preempted the barrage predictable anti reform responses that filled the COMMERCIAL airwaves immediately afterward. Some of them were wasted money from the "health care" insurance lobby and just about everything that had been prepared as a counterpoint in the commercials had already been deftly addressed in the President's speech/plea to the American people and to Congress.
Wilson disrespected our way of doing things in America. This is not the House of Commons. This IS the United States of America and if Wilson is not up to snuff to respect the system, then he has no place IN IT as a leader. I can roll with the best of them in any impromptu situation, but we expect more (and SHOULD) expect more from leaders. Wilson failed at that today to the point where he is just Wilson to me. A Senator who wants the title should act like one. If he can't, he can give us his Congressional Insurance, his title, and act like the rest of us who are trying to just get by and survive. And if he can't understand that, then he needs professional help....if he can find it WITHOUT INSURANCE. Good luck buddy...did you say your last name was Wilson?
Welcome to the real world Mr. Wilson. Stop pretending you represent the common man when you put yourself in a position of leadership but can't bring yourself to the level you should be functional at. Perhaps it's time to find a new career in this economy. We are all doing it, why not join in and see how much fun it is? Come on! Do it!?!
Am I the only one who wonders why you have to be at least a millionaire to represent people like me and you?
And before you think I'm an unbalanced bleeding heart whatever, we DO have to do something about malpractice insurance for doctors as well. Doctors have been sued by people gaming the system. That's why you get tests you don't even need and doctors will err not only on the side of caution for you (and scare you out of your mind) but so they are safe as well!
There are two sides of this. There HAS TO be a better way.
Tell me...please.
Ok, if "You Lie" is accepted during a Presidential speech to the the entire nation then can we post date at least 100 of those for when Bush was in office so the other side of the aisle gets a posthumous chance at screaming at former President Bush? It has to be televised though. Scratch that, the cable lines at Crawford Ranch have been severed long ago...
I am glad he did it. Why? It shows we get nowhere unless we stick together. As corny as it sounds, we really ARE in this all together. Really. The examples that President Barack Obama cited in his speech are only scratching the surface of what has become the story of survival for many in the US. We all know it. My own father has to travel to Canada to get his meds cheaper that in the US. Seniors here in Southern California routinely go to Mexico (Senior bus excursions) to get meds their insurance won't cover because they are too expensive. Nothing Obama said was new to me, or was it news to ANYONE except Senator Wilson? Let's not forget those convenient web sites we all know about. SHHH!!!!!!
If we are to have a system that works, the Senator Joe Wilson's behavior cannot be tolerated. It leads to a dead end. Then we get into the kind of bickering that you find in any pool hall or common corner bar and has no place in leadership and respect. He is entrusted to a higher standard, and if he is incapable of containing himself, perhaps he should consider another line of work. I would be FIRED if I acted in such a manner in my job, and I am no where near the category of how I think a Senator (who is elected and entrusted as a leader) should behave. No one is perfect, Senator Wilson has apologized, so it's time to move on and get something done for A CHANGE. Get it? If there was ever a time for a change, NOW is it.
Our President was addressing the entire nation. For Senator Wilson to ASSume that we all share his view is awfully presumptuous and rather boorish to say the least. I want to know about him, A LOT about him now. And let's not pigeonhole the people from South Carolina by Wilson's actions. If all the news crews went there, I'm sure they'd find people just as upset in South Carolina at Wilson's behavior as anywhere else. I know there are good beaches there and good food, so if I lived there myself I would know for sure Wilson would quack louder that Benedict Ahhnold but birds of a feather......well you know the rest...lest we make the rich unhappy. *Ahem* cough cough!
This shit gets us no where. Unfortunately his behavior does not advance us towards a constructive and productive way to solve the crisis that is our nations healthcare. This really IS bigger than government. It's about people caring for one another. We are the only so-called "advanced" Western nation that has a health care system that quite literally kills it's own with the system we currently have in place.
President Obama brought up several common sense ideas that preempted the barrage predictable anti reform responses that filled the COMMERCIAL airwaves immediately afterward. Some of them were wasted money from the so-called "health care" insurance lobby and just about everything that had been prepared as a counterpoint in the commercials had already been deftly addressed in the President's speech/plea to the American people and to Congress.
Wilson disrespected our way of doing things in America. This is not the House of Commons. This IS the United States of America and if Wilson is not up to snuff to respect the system, then he has no place IN IT as a leader. I can roll with the best of them in any impromptu situation, but we expect more (and SHOULD) expect more from leaders. Wilson failed at that today to the point where he is just Wilson to me. A Senator who wants the title should act like one. If he can't, he can give us his Congressional Insurance, his title, and act like the rest of us who are trying to just get by and survive. And if he can't understand that, then he needs professional help....if he can find it WITHOUT INSURANCE. Good luck buddy...did you say your last name was Wilson?
Welcome to the real world Mr. Wilson. Stop pretending you represent the common man when you put yourself in a position of leadership but can't bring yourself to the level you should be functional at. Perhaps it's time to find a new career in this economy. We are all doing it, why not join in and see how much fun it is? Come on! Do it!?!
Am I the only one who wonders why you have to be at least a millionaire to represent people like me and you?
And before you think I'm an unbalanced bleeding heart whatever, we DO have to do something about malpractice insurance for doctors as well. Doctors have been sued by people gaming the system. That's why you get tests you don't even need and doctors will err not only on the side of caution for you (and scare you out of your mind) but so they are safe as well!
There are two sides of this. There HAS TO be a better way. Before you think I am talking off the cuff, I was just rejected (have a letter to prove it) for insurance for a "pre-existing" condition by Anthem Blue Cross of Southern California. I will be 47 years old next month. I have broke my arm, and ruptured my Achilles Tendon...the kind of things ACTIVE people do when they are trying to stay and keep ahead of the game. Apparently that is working against me in the world of health insurance, which operates separately from the world of reality...or so it seems.
I hope Mr. Wilson has better ideas than what he's demonstrated so far. After all, he's covered in ways I can only imagine given his stewardship and foresight that got him elected in a role of leadership.
Joe can't help himself. This is how they behave at the monthly Ku Klux Klan meetings where they burn an effigy of Barack Obama and squirm around on the floor like snakes while 'talking in tongues.' Praise Jesus!
Braindead posters like the midwest'lady' and 'libertyarian' have now proven their worth as human beings. Calling a disrespectful bigot a 'hero' is about par for their ilk. They are rabid Jerry Springer, Maury, types and it's a product of their upbringing. They will never be anything other than the garbage that they are now, for the rest of their lives.
The repugs sat there for the most part; like medieval, grim-faced gargoyles while the President gave them a light spanking. They deserved much more but President Obama outclassed them as usual. They could barely contain their hatred however, with the "booing" and grumbling. But like a teabagger with a loaded gun, this Wilson, this steaming piece of republican excrement simply and psychotically exploded. Nice tastless touch there repugs. This guy must've thought he was at a tea-bagging party.
The good part about the display, (if there was a good part) is that it was shown live on National media instead of in some obscure, un-viewed files of CSpan.
Another undeniable example displaying to the world that; what these republicans can't steal or destroy, they shit on.
where was that guy when bush was spewing forth provable lies about wmd/imminent terror attacks/saddam ties to al qeada ?
fucking hypocrites .
Mr. Wilson, you are an embarrassment to our country, our government, and our children. You have shown that being childish is how you try and solve problems. Maybe by keeping your mouth shut and opening your eyes you might learn something that your parents obviously never taught you, and that is how to behave when out in public. I feel sorry for the constituents from S.C. that have this to look at as their government representative. You should resign your office and put an adult in charge.
Ever watch the televised sessions of the english parliament?... they boo and catcall the british PM all the time. And he's usually takes pot shots at them as well.
Atleast they have a sense of humour about it.
Joe Wilson is another fine example of why the GOP is mainly compromised of emotionally driven village idiots whose only reason to exist is to project hate and blame.
"That's what you said last time Dip-Shit!" ......" South Carolina ! what's up!" Idiocracy !!!!! is coming true
Another example of the Republicans accusing the Democrats of what THEY actually do.
What do you know? Obama actually called it like it is. And the Repuke Rep? He called it like it is. Obama is a liar. He has lied so many times to the people who supported his election win he should be ashamed.
Maybe now the weak knee Dumb-o-crats will stand up against the Repuke Assholes! Nah, they lack the spines that are needed to get in there and mix it up.
These racist, bigoted, hypocrites will never change. Take away federal funding to these racist states for a few years. They want to secede anyway. Help them along.
I think that we should not call people liars without backing it up. And in respect to what Wilson said, he should yell liar with facts in hand. It doesn't look smart when newscasters can point to the exact page, section and article that clearly states that illegal immigrants will NOT be funded. Obviously they read the information that he couldn't be bothered to read.
For those of you yelling democrat or republican insults to each other, let it go. We need to focus on making changes in the health care system because it is broken. Is Obama right on everything? Probably not, but not wanting to work with him to make sure that the best outcome for the American people is realized is just counter-productive.
[...] The Raw Story » Republican shouts ‘you lie’ at Obama during speechIf your name is Joe Wilson and you think the president is lying, this is how you are supposed to call him out on it. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/06/opinion/06WILS.html. Shouting at him from the cheap seats, OTOH, is just Not Done. 38 marlow. It wasn’t all that long ago when declaring ….. Before you think I am talking off the cuff, I was just rejected (have a letter to prove it) for insurance for a “pre-existing” condition by Anthem Blue Cross of Southern California. … Read more [...]
Patience: LoL ... i woudnt wanna meet biden in a dark alley
Can Van Jones un-resign now, since last night proved beyond a reasonable doubt that most Republicans are, indeed, a$$holes?
Joe, I hope you got the thirty pieces of silver they promised you for ruining your career. It's odd, though, that you were carried away by your emotions, when everyone had an advance copy of the speech
Perhaps if reform could incorporate less than a 1000 pages, so everyone could comprehend all the "points" effectively, and if enough time had been given to study the reform bill and confer with constiuents, the frustration level of Joe Wilson would not have been so high as to make him make an Emily Post blunder. Let's face it, this has been an emotional issue for a lot of us. The folks on the left think their way of reform is the only way and the folks on the right feel that they are having things rammed down their throats. I believe what Joe said, his emotions got the better of him, he apologized and it is time to move on.....oh and NO he should not resign - last time I checked, for now we still live in America with full freedom of speech.
Thanks Rep. Wilson for being a distraction. In the grand scheme of Us vs. Them politics, it's the distractions that get the most done, while real actions are hustled under the table and at the 11th hour. All the "Shame on you Republicans" and "Shame on you Liberals" rhetoric above proves it. Save your hollow rhetoric for Reality TV.
Let him be noisy and make a fool of himself. It's the content of the bill that matters. Read them and cite specifics from them. The President deserves respect -but only as much as anyone else. He heads only 1 of 3 branches of our government. He is not king. I voted for him, I did not -and will not- bow to him. If he, or anyone else we elect, fails to do their job, they get replaced. Party affiliation is just a distraction.
When your keepers rattle the bars enough, you forget that you're still in a cage.
Although I in no way condone the representative's behavior he does raise a good point. No matter what reforms are actually implemented illegal aliens will continue to get healthcare and someone has to pay. If this is not specifically addressed then the burden ultimately falls on society in general.
Has anybody of listed or watched the Brittish House of Commons? This would type of remark wouldn't even get a blink. It's common place. Now if we're going to institute HC policies similar to that of Britain then heck, might as well speaak ones mind just as they do.
I think this Wilson ass knew exactly what he was going to do, had it planned out ahead of time. He was trying to make himself infamous. He even had the insincere apology planned ahead of time. I say insincere because even in his apology he manages to get a dig in at the President.
Another P.O.S. Republican. The party of sniveling, slavering, foaming at the mouth weasels.
Until a bill is signed expect the health and insurance industry to work non-stop to ruin it.
Obama shows no respect for We The People, by lying to us. We can read what is in that bill and see that he lied to us.
I'm thankful that one person had the guts break up the Hollywood performance to call him on his lies.
Van Jones called himself a communist. Why would we want Obama having communist advising him?
Republican show there true colors not just the out burst as John McCain In an interview with CNN moments after the speech, Sen. John McCain said the heckle was "totally disrespectful. [There's] no place for it in that setting or any other setting, and he should apologize immediately." But the signs that were held up during the Speech or the fake bills they held up as well.
With the entire lie that were actually told by George Bush in that Sacrate people halls yes that is the People Chambers. From Yellow Cake to Weapons of mass distruction never did any one ever yell out or Disrespect the president
In fact people in the Gallery were escorted out of the Chamber for Wearing T Shirts the Bush Administration didn’t want to see including one Senators Wife. Republican I might add.
Now the facts
Immigrants have been allowed in this country by the Republicans since 1980 under President Regain who gave illegal immigrants amnesty. For the past 12 years of Republican Rule Turning the blind eye to illegal immigrants coming to the US. Even under the scare tactics of terrorism they allowed this to go on to bring down wages and break the back of unions for their Corporate Cronies
No not just what some only want to refer to the Mexican the (Brown skin) but the Chinese in freighters to working sweat shop sewing Factories or Pakistanis or from India and so on to break the unions. All to get cheaper Labor to work on our Roads, Factories and Farms.
What they don’t want you to know is the Fact that these people they allowed to come here, are afraid to go to Dr. when they should in fear of deportation. They end up going to back room Doctors or Butchers when things get worse the end up in our hospitals and that coast tax payers more money.
No it’s the Republicans that created these Insurance companies and fraud way back with Senator Bill Frist
The wealthy doctor ran for the Senate in 1994 with a simple mission: to prevent health care reforms that might pose a threat to his family's stake in Columbia/HCA, the nation's leading owner of hospitals. There was never going to be anything honorable about his service, but nothing all that embarrassing in a Washington that welcomes self-serving senators with open arms.
Hospital Chain To Settle Case; Medicare Fraud Charges Cost Columbia/ HCA $745 Million
Please write Joe Wilson at
http://www.house.gov/formwilson/IMA/issue.htm
to tell him how vile he was in his remarks! My email to him is below;
Mr. Joe Wilson,
Never in my life have I seen such a show of vial disrespect as I did last night during President Obama's address to the joint congress when you shouted out that he lies! I am so ashamed that this would have occurred to ANY president!!! Especially in the sacred chamber of congress!!!
You highlighted the discourse and venom that is fueling this debate... I just ask that you work as hard finding solutions to healthcare as you have worked to humiliate yourself in the eyes of the American public! SHAME ON YOU SIR!!!
I am one person with a family counting on having a choice in healthcare… I lost my healthcare at the end of June when I lost my job. You have a job, healthcare and the power to do something… stop being the problem, start being the solution!
Sincerely,
Judy R. Searcy
glad to see some congressman with balls
i like pelosi's face when he said it
i know she was thinking"how dare you question our great and powerful Führer?"
new world order goons cant hide forever. people arent afraid to stand up to them anymore. their day is coming...
Joe Wilson is a boil on the asshole of society.
Joe Wilson is a disgrace. The despicable things Bush & Co. did were never met with this type of disrespect from Congress. Just another example of republican hypocrisy.
This entire political process is a lie. That's why neither side likes it when someone uses the word.
@ Doug #99
See the footage of W's State of the Union address in '05. Compared to the length of time covered by 'never', 2005 was just yesterday.
Wake up People.
Clinton, Bush and Obama take orders. They are working for the same people.
All this Left Right BS is for mindless idiots who fall prey to government media propaganda. All of you are FOOLS!
Reading these comments is repulsive..WHY? because your mindset is what is going to bring down this country.
Don't believe me???
Watch this
CNN's hoax on America. REAL VIDEO PROOF!! NO BS!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIZh1nm8Lzg
Obama is a liar.
Libertyarian: What an idiot. Take your stupidity to WND. Mouthbreathing is widely practiced there.
midwestlady: You're a fucking disgrace to the Midwest. I come from the Midwest. The part I come from still understands and practices respect over racism. Go fuck yourself, respectfully.
Shane: It doesn't get any stupider than Rush Limpballs for President.
parker: Do you have a point, besides the one on your head, or do you just like to hear yourself pontificate mindlessly? Jesus, I've read better copy on an aspirin bottle.
Red Stater: As always, you are one truly inbred fucktard on this thread. Your stupidity sets a new standard of low here on TRS. The sad thing is that you envision yourself as quite the thinker. The only part of thinker you have right: sitting on your fat ass and posing. You know nothing and your posts are such tripe that they make tripe look edible by comparison. Please go fuck yourself with an ungreased Louisville Slugger.
Pleasantly Fucked in the Ass: Keep drinking your own piss, assclown. I'm sure it'll eventually cure the retardation your family has inbred into you.
cellec: What a fucking idiot. Nothing more need be said. Nice palindrome; I assume it's an accident.
John: Prove it, you lying sack of shit. Then choke on your own cancerous dick.
David R Velasquez and Noble 1: Uh, not sure if you got the memo, but this isn't Britain and Congress isn't Parliament. And look at how much the British get done booing and chortling.
marinessuck: I used to like your posts. What the fuck happenned? Fall on your head?
Taz: This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, dipshit. It has everything to do with respect for Congress and the Office of the President of the United States. Obviously, you are a Repug -- rules only apply when they apply to someone else. Like your Dick said, "go fuck yourself."
TaxPayer: Again, prove it. Quit pulling "facts" out of your ass. Save that shit for Fox.
P.S -- I pay my taxes, too: big fucking deal.
KOF: Do you live with RedStater, because, really, your brand of infantile fucktardedness seems pretty similar. Assholes like you are the problem.
jerry: You're pretty impressed with balls. Probably, like most teabaggers, you're accustommed to having a set dangling in your mouth. Find it hard to breathe like that?
Patience: Provide a link instead of just making shit up and expecting everyone to accept your crap as fact. Or better yet: get back to work at Fox.
ianto94: And you're a fucking retard.
God, the rightwing truly is a bunch of inbred, infantile, a-fucking morons who proudly wear their racism like a medal of honor. This is about nothing more than bigotry. Wilson is a piece of shit who disgraced Congress, the Presidency, America, and you, you fucking morons. This shit is unacceptable. This is not a town halligan meeting. This is not a rugby match either. The fact that Wilson is a stooge for Big Pharma and health insurers should make every one of you knuckledraggers question his motivation. But that takes actual brainpower and a bit of unbiased thinking: two qualities of rational though you assholes lack by the truckload. Our nation is fucked because of dipshits like you. Sadly, you have the gall to call yourselves Americans? Go back to your fucking trailers, you ignoramuses. You make America look like a third-world nation.
Opponent Of Obama Heckler Raises $350,000 Since Speech
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/10/rob-miller-wilsons-oppone_n_281931.html
Opponent of 'You Lie' Rep. raises $405,000 in a day
UPDATED
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/opponent-of-you-lie-rep-raises-50000-overnight/comment-page-1/#comment-28497
I like Congressman Frank's response: he was okay with it, given that Congressman Wilson has freedom of speech, but it shows how desperate and flustered the GOP has become. When Wilson said Obama lied, he was lying.
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
The behavior of Joe Wilson and several others was appalling. Please see the following for full opinion on the disrespectful behavior demonstrated last night:
http://www.examiner.com/x-14207-Lodi-Spiritual-Living-Examiner~y2009m9d10-President-Obamas-health-care-speech-marred-by-bad-behavior
marlow- I'm a brain dead monkey because I bring up the fact you are defending your team? Dumbass, I'm not a Democrat or a Republican, I'm an American. This isn't a your side my side issue. Both political parties are owned by the same interests. Obama = Bush. They are both liars and I'm glad someone said so. I don't care who said it, at least someone did and the Democrats should have been screaming it about Bush at every opportunity. As for "Presidential decorum," once again I point out that the office of president is not the equivalent of king, brain dead monkey. Keep drinking your fluoride.
NoOneYouKnow- Why comment on my post if you didn't read it? Bush is not my hero and I never said as much. I campaigned for local Democrats in my area in '06 on the promise they would IMPEACH the motherfucker and they all lied through their teeth. And Obama has continued and expanded on everything Bush has done including war, torture, rendition, spying, etc. Did you check his voting record before he became president in which he supported everything Bush did? He lied during his campaign and is lying now. If you have issue with that then you have issue with reality.
wgaf- I respectfully disagree that nothing would get done. It's not the President's job to dictate legislation to Congress. If the President comes to Congress to sell something he should be prepared for the backlash from those who disagree, especially if he is lying about something, which Obama was. We've strayed too far from this country's roots.
J Lewd- All I have to say to your backwards fluoride slurping ass is go fuck yourself.
What Wilson said, had to be said. Obama, who I admire and voted for, is foolish not to understand that the American people are sick and tired of illegal immigrants. We know we are paying for their medical care (among other things) and they are sucking our institutions dry. Anyone who is from NJ (now a third world country) understands what its like to have your freedoms and liberties taken away by the invasion. Its not surprising that NJ and California are in fiscal shambles...two states which bear a large burden of illegals.
J Lewd,
Thanks for adding nothing to the debate. If only liberty could be restored by profanity and accusations of racism, you would be a modern George Washington!
But, alas, it cannot.
I will continue to preach a message of limited government, personal sovereignty, and personal accountability (in which, of course, there is no room for racism).
Why don't you take responsibility for yourself, go get a job and provide for your own and let me do the same for my family. I have more respect for someone who lives in a trailer-park and works hard to take care of their own than a dead-beat who mooches off of the productive ones of society.
Re: illegals...
When the wealthy can wash their own clothes, mow their own lawns, pick their own apples and watch their own kids, then you might get some immigration reform. But for now, they'll publicly feign their disgust with these people to sound all "American" while they privately benefit from their very, very cheap labor. Because wealthy people are, by and large, cheap (broad brush, I suppose, but most of the wealthy I know think of themselves first).
parker: Back at you, fucktard. And you're hardly an American -- just some armchair simpleton with one year of community college under his straining belt; some shotgun-shack-living cracker whose prodigious ass has grown more corpulent under the government he nutlessly, scholastically chides from the ivory tower of his mom's basement. Your points here are nothing more than impracticable. Wait, they are more: they are inane in a way that brings well-deserved, derisive smiles to the faces of thinking Americans.
You consider yourself a patriot dyed in the same wool as our forefathers?! Libertarian? Yeah, that party existed when the Constitution was drafted. No doubt you think Lyndon LaRouche is a genius and tea parties are grass roots events. Keep living the dream, dipshit -- that's all it is.
You haven't a fucking clue about what being an American means. And so I suggest you fuck yourself more than you already do. Your pointless prattle has been unmasked by others on this thread. Nothing more need be said by me, other than "fuck you."
Libertyarian: Preach is exactly right. Your pontification adds nothing, but I'm sure it makes you feel important. As for the swearing, profanity may not solve our problems, but it makes me feel better. It provides some solace against the barking wall of ignorance and racism that has become the conservative (bowel) movement in America. I sat through eight long years of the right's bully pulpit. Now it's my turn. I almost relish the day that your talk is labeled seditious just like my anti-war stance was under Bushler.
The incident that occurred in Congress by Rep. Joe Wilson R-NC, illustrates the consequences of a blurring line between illegal immigration and health care. Our politicians have been alerted to the angry voices of the American people. For once they have disregarded the business campaign contributors and all the cloaked gifts given for services rendered by special interest lobbyists. Millions of US citizens are enraged with the status quo buying favors from our representatives that has led to our wilting economy. Today speaking on behalf of Washington committees on health care, the lawmaking emphasized that illegal aliens cannot access the new health reform package, that any person applying will be checked through government databases.
E-Verify might be implemented for this very issue, that it has shown in the majority of cases remarkable successes in remove illegal alien workers from the working environment. E-Verify can solve this problem and bring sanity back to immigration enforcement. E-VERIFICATION OF EACH AND EVERY AMERICAN WORKER MUST BE MADE PERMANENT? NOT JUST VOLUNTARY POLICY, BUT AS A FULL FORCE OF OPERATION CARRYING STRICT PENALTIES. This operation will work under federal policies? But what about state laws? California as an example is a Sanctuary state for millions of illegal immigrants and their families? Other border states are also occupied by large proportions of unlawful populations of foreign nationals?
This last year has culminated in huge financial losses in California caused by millions of low income illegal aliens, which has created a third world community within the United States. There must be federal measures to bring under control, massive spending benefits for people who have no right from benefiting from those who come here legally or were born here. How can any public health care option work at a state level, when states like California ignore federal law, regarding financial refuge to indigent people? Our own people remain homeless and in many cases without hope, when legislators have prioritized, health care, education an overloaded jail system and easy welfare money for illegal immigrants?
The once golden state has been using taxpayer money, to support illegal aliens, when the same expenditures should have been adopted for a collapsing infrastructure. Highways, schools, tunnels, bridges and dams in a dangerous state of disrepair? Our legislators in many cases have been seduced by lobbyists and should be banned from any contact with our politicians. This will never happen, but something must be done? Millions have been spent on derailing the health care reform currently and in the past, as has immigration enforcement. Rescinding 287(g) federal training for local police enforcement of immigration laws, the NO MATCH LETTER and the cutting back on ICE raids on obnoxious businesses using foreign workers.
The order to crush E-verify was given to Sen.Harry Reid, Speaker Pelosi, Janet Napolitano, but narrowly survived in the Senate chambers. Both political parties are equally to blame for not enforcing the 1986 Immigration Control & Reform Act that was inundated with fraud and a desire to weaken the laws. Now they want to rescind that law, offering yet another reform package that will never function? Let’s not kid ourselves! Huge veiled forces are at work to import as much cheap labor as possible with no restraints, lowering wages and an unconscionable burden on taxpayers.
DON'T LET THE POWERS IN WASHINGTON WHITEWASH THE FACTS! DEMAND THE ORIGINAL DESIGNED FENCE AND THE FULL IMPLEMENTATION OF E-VERIFY, 287 (g), THE SAVE ACT AND AS WRITTEN, THE 1986 SIMPSON/MAZZOLI BILL AND AMEND THEM IF NEED BE? NO MORE IMMIGRATION REFORM? DO THE JOB THEY WERE VOTED FOR? CALL YOUR POLITICIANS AT 202-224-3121 AND DEMAND THESE LAWS BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE? MORE ANSWERS FOUND AT NUMBERSUSA & JUDICIAL WATCH.
Oh, JLewd, project much? All you have is insults to back up your delusions. If being an American means being a koolade drinking supporter of any political party then you can have it, asshole. If I'm a simpleton because I have the ability to think critically, then what does that make you, dumbfuck? It's amazing how you add nothing but insults like you are an authority on anything besides being a leach. You and your ilk are just as bad as the morons that supported Bush with your fawning. And then you spew your horseshit to Libertyarian about suppressing speech you don't agree with. Yeah, you are a great American. And if you were truly anti-war you wouldn't be defending Obama, who has continued and expanded on everything Bush has done while simultaneously covering up his criminal actions. Oh, I said something critical of the messiah, I must be a RACIST. That's all you so called "progressives" have: delusions, projections, and ignorance. You can fuck off now.
[...] Like all the southern schools had opt-outs of Obama’s speech to kids !No racism here, he just “happens” to be from South Carolina! 36 parker. “Oh, goodness, how dare you insult the king by telling the truth. … What would have happen to a citizen or Law Maker who stood up and called President Bush a liar while he was talking to Congress live on TV? We’ve had 44 US Presidents and only Obama has been shown total disrespect by Law Makers, is it that clear what the problem …More [...]
it just amazes me the way people play the party game,when it comes right down to it can you honestly admit that any of them ever tell the truth?democrates and republicans alike both tell us lies,we need to step up as the american people and listen to what is being said and not deciding based on party
J Lewd,
I applaud your anti-war, anti-Bush stance! I traveled to D.C. during the Bush years to protest! So I guess I don't fit into your anti-GOP approach- I AM ANTI-GOP!
But not for the same reasons you are, obviously. I'm a constitutionalist, anti-federalist, classical liberal, and free market economist- all in the tradition of men such as Thomas Jefferson and Bastiat.
Maybe you should consider what freedom itself is. It is not the ability of one group to oppress another- Instead of saying "I can't wait until your speech is labeled seditious", you should say NO SPEECH IS SEDITIOUS! I may not agree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it!
Nor is freedom forcibly taking from one group to give to another (even though you may call it taxation). I would defend your right to spend your money on whatever you want- drugs, prostitutes, etc. (even though I may not agree with your choices)- why? Because it is your money. Nor would I force you to spend on anything- like providing me with health care. It is immoral. Why do you insist on stealing from me through my servant the government?
You believe the system is not fair- I agree. You believe it is favoring the elitists- I agree. But I don't want to increase the unfairness and elitism- I want to abolish them through massive government cutting and restoration of PERSONAL accountability.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin
sandy- exactly my point. Thank you.
Libertytarian,
I applaud you trying to be reasonable with a guy like J Lewd but you can't reason with someone who thinks the world owes them something or someone who doesn't use reason to begin with. I agree with everything you said otherwise as we share the same beliefs. I'm happy to see that common sense will not die.
He showed how ignorant he is by this outburst. If he feels this way, that is his right, but as a Senator of the US of America, he should hold his ignorance to himself towards the President of the US of America. I have felt many times like screaming from the rafters, about Bush and his acitons, but I am NOT a senator, and I would not do in during a speech by our President. The Republicans have shown nothing but ignorance since Obama started his campaign and the party is just about ready to fold. Behavior like this only hastens the day when this becomes a reality. I do not think a one party system is good for this country nor would I like it to happen, BUT the republicans have done this ro themselves. They are so crooked and mean spirited, that they do not deserve to be in politics, any longer. He should make a PUBLIC apology for his outrageous behavior.
parker
Libertytarian,
Why don't you clowns get a room. There, you can practice your man-on-man douchebaggery without any interruption of truth or rational thought.
@ Pleasantly Surprised,
I defend Wilson's right to publicly accuse a standing President of lying. I don't think there should be a rule against it, and I hope the rule is not invoked to censure him. If the Dems hadn't been such pussies, President Bush's legacy might not be quite so dark.
I DON'T defend Wilson's or anyone else's right to make false accusations. Wilson, either knowingly or ignorantly, falsely accused the President of lying. Not that it will do any good, but here goes, one more time for truth's sake, straight from the text of HR 3200, posted at the Thomas Library of Congress (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c111jdEulx:e176188:):
SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
Having failed to find a single word in HR 3200 to back your ridiculous claims, you're now quibbling over the word "undocumented" the same way the Clinton quibbled over the word "is."
Grow up.
@ Nick,
You have a legitimate question (about reverence in the Chamber), so let me put it in an historical context.
The House rules of decorum, section 370 expressly prohibits:
* call the President a “liar.”
* call the President a “hypocrite.”
* describe the President’s veto of a bill as “cowardly.”
* charge that the President has been “intellectually dishonest.”
* refer to the President as “giving aid and comfort to the enemy.”
* refer to alleged “sexual misconduct on the President’s part.”
(http://www.rules.house.gov/POP/house_comm_dec.htm)
I'm not sure how they slogged through the Clinton impeachment, but Wilson's conduct pretty much violates rule # 1. It's also generally considered inapproprate to verbally berate or to mock your colleagues in Congress, and although I can find no rule expressly forbidding it, the following anecdote might explain how, unlike the British Parliament, things tend to be a bit more civil here.
In 1856, the civil unrest known as "Bleeding Kansas" brought the problem of slavery once again to the floor of the Senate. Senator Charles Sumner (R-MA), an abolitionist, used the Senate's unlimited debate to castigate pro-slavery advocates, in particular his colleague, Senator Andrew Butler(D-SC), whom he mocked by imitating Butler's slurred speech, caused by paralysis. Southerners were known for their aristocratic sense of honor and such an attack, as any Jacksonian scholar can tell you, was never taken lightly. So it was that two days later ,Congressman Preston Brooks (Butler's nephew; D-SC) entered the Senate Chamber and beat Sumner into unconsciousness with a cane, causing irreparable brain and spinal cord damage. It is a salient point that no one in the Senate rose to stop the incident. Another I recall hearing was that 12 Southern, Democratic states each sent Rep. Brooks a new cane, including one with the engraving, "Hit him again!" The episode and the resulting media mash-up left the nation hopelessly polarized, and is considered by many to be the catalyst for the Civil War.
Given the polarized state of the country, a little reverence wouldn't hurt things.
@ Libertaryan,
We agree on a lot of things, but since you're quoting Benjamin Franklin:
"This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. "
I agree that limiting government is key to greater liberty, but after Reagan, Bush and Bush, I'm pretty sure that the Republican promises to limit government are as empty as Democratic promises to end poverty. At issue is the truth, and it's pretty clear that Wilson lied.
Nice posts, Nick. Real pearls wasted before the swine. It's pretty tiring seeing the concern trolls disguised as libertarians or independents when in fact they are nothing of the sort. My guess is these are dyed in the wool Republicans spinning their usual pastiche of lies and misrepresentations. Listen long enough to their crap and their misquotes of our founding fathers, and they'll have you believing Thomas Jefferson wants Barack Obama out of office and Benjamin Franklin openly endorses bullets over ballots.
These clowns are nothing more than what they were during Weimar: totalitarians bent of disrupting the will of the majority.
I'm sorry, Jack. I just finished a note to my nephew. Your posts are real winners in spite of my missing your name.
Jack,
I completely agree. The Republicans are as insincere about shrinking government as Obama was about bringing the troops home. They are all liars. Anyone (like J Lewd) who can't see that is so completely delusional that even considering the similarities between the two parties' ACTIONS is enough to send them into an angry rant about racism and whatever other smoke screen they can think of.
J Lewd,
I appreciate the thought and skill you put into debunking my logic. The principle will always stand true- A government that can give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. The only way to freedom is to limit government strength and intervention at every turn, and to realize that stealing from one another to give someone else is immoral. Again, don't steal from me for any of your hobbies. Just leave me alone and I will do the same for you.
If you call that totalitarianism you are an idiot. What we have (and had in the previous administration, and many before that) is totalitarianism.
Libertaryan,
While Executive power grew substantially under the Bush Administration, I would stop short of calling what we lived under "totalitarianism" and likewise for the current President. As an anarchist, I guard my freedoms as jealously as you do. However, I am just as suspicious of corporate power as I am of government power. I have seen my personal freedoms diminish, in many ways, more as a result of unfettered corporatism than from a growing government.
Corporations have all the rights of a citizen with none of the responsibilities or criminal liabilities (hence the term LLC--Limited Liability Corporation). The check on corporate power can take one of two forms: government restraint or popular upheaval. Like most long-term anarchists, I have come to accept the lessons of history: that revolution only leads to a new and greater tyranny. Once surrounded by his lieutenants, anyone tasting the power that comes from marshaling forces to insurrection can no more voluntarily surrender control for the common good than a junkie can voluntarily stop shooting up while surrounded by heroin.
So it is that we find ourselves between the proverbial rock and a hard place: private power or government power? There are your two wolves, my friend, and we are the sheep, whether armed or not.
Perhaps "racism"--whether real or imagined--is just another smoke screen. If so, what's it covering up? Do what the cops do: follow the money.
Q. Who stands to gain from health care with a public option?
A. Doctors & public hospitals (they'll get paid).
Q. Who stands to gain from from mandatory private health care?
A: Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, private hospitals . . . etc., ad nauseum.
You're a bright fellow. The criticisms against H.R. 3200 could have been substantive, but instead they've merely been rhetorical and divisive. "Why should we be forced to buy insurance--whether public or private?" is a question that should have been asked, but never was. The question of racism was brought to the discussion by a white guy (Glenn Beck) who, with no sense of irony whatsoever, speaks on his show of how filthy and diseased Mexicans are.
The current President is no more of a racist than our last President, and such accusations, as you correctly point out, are a smoke screen. So Carter says, "I'm rubber, you're glue . . ." (a bit more compelling, since he grew up in Georgia during segregation), which still has no bearing on the discussion of health care. Nor does the ensuing mash-up over who's lying.
But it's kept us all busy, hasn't it?
Jack, I'm wondering if your mispelling of Libertyarian's name was purposeful or Freudian -- either way, it's funny. And although I may not agree entirely with your posts, I enjoy reading them: they are well thought.
Libertyarian: If I believed you truly believed Libertarian politics, I would probably have less issue with your comments -- however, I do not. I think your politics, like a lot of the recent teabuggery going around this nation, is merely an appropriation of the closest political paradigm to lend credence to what might be otherwise dismissed as illegitimate protest and misdirected anger.
I would gladly live a policy of live and let live societally as well as politically if I believed that policy would be adhered to on all sides -- but that's nothing more than fantasy. When I see gun nuts at presidential townhalls about healthcare reform, I know there's no allowance for live and let live by the nuts carrying the guns: why else would these fools carry weapons to a debate about healthcare unless it was to intimidate the debate? A healthcare reform townhall is not the venue for expressing one's misperception of the Second Amendment to the US Constitution. As a result, I am led to believe there is another, more racist, more seditious premise to the motivation to do so.
I'm no fan of government -- especially not when it involves the illicit wiretapping and corporatist favoritism that has become our current government. But government is almost an inescapable necessity when it comes to large population blocks. I tend to be more Hobbes than Locke, and as such, do not believe in the individual's capacity to be inately good.
I'm led to wonder, then, how sincerely someone fights this battle against big government and loss of civil liberty when they show up well after the conclusion of one of the worst presidency's in history with regard to these topics. As a result, I suspect the discontent currently aired against the Obama administration has nothing whatsoever to do with civil liberty and more to do with skin color.
In the case of the teabaggers who have usurped the tax revolt begun by the Libertarian movement, I believe this more disdainful premise is at the core of the protest. Considering the racism we see so overtly displayed at these events, I'm led to conclude only that these dangerous radicals are instead displeased with the legitimate popular election of an African-American President. More, I fear what extremes these clowns will go to to thwart the will of the masses.
The inherent danger in the perjorated Libertarian movement and the misplaced second amendment protests is simply this: you know that at the heart of it all one man's opinion can easily overthrow that of several others when the Neanderthal philosophy of bullets over ballots is observed. Though assassination and violent protest occur in the US, that is not how our Democracy is supposed to work.
As for being an idiot, project all you want: I believe your Libertarianism is a sham. I fear, as Jack accurately or accidentally labels, it is more LibertARYANism.
Well, J Lewd, your last 2 sentences properly capture your entire philosophy; beliefs based on nothing more than biased opinions given to you by suggestion (in this case, the Democratic attack machine) rather than by evidence.
Considering that I do not judge based on race and have been involved in the freedom movement for a lot longer than Obama has been chasing the Controller in Chief position, I guess your opinions are empty and void of understanding.
And Jack, as far as my governmental views are concerned, I lean towards anarchism philosophically. However, I've come to accept that government in one form or another is almost naturally occurring due to the mass's desire to trample the rights of the individual. So it seems to me, at this time and with my current understanding, the only hope is a short-term solution perpetually reinstated- limit government power through any means necessary. When their power inevitably grows again, "alter or abolish" the system and start over. As Thomas Jefferson said, "We should not be 20 years without such a rebellion." That need not always be violent.
Oh yea, one more thing J Lewd-
I AM bent on disrupting the will of the "majority" when they trample the rights of the individual. Democracy is tyranny in the form of popularity. That's why were not set up as a democracy, but a republic- rule by law. Admittedly, the law is no longer in charge but special interests.
Both parties are made up mostly of criminals- i.e., they break the law.
Your last post is very telling: you conspire against democracy. What makes your opinion any better or more authoritative than anyone else's? (Authoritarian, maybe -- certainly not authoritative.) The fact that it's yours? Talk about arrogance AND hyprocrisy.
Again, these "pearls" you spin are the same thing you accuse others of having: opinions, based on nothing but your own surmise. So that makes you better than everyone else on this thread how. . . ?
And I'm tired of trite comments like "we're a republic" -- we're both. Do you think those laws get passed by themselves? Democratically elected officials make the laws. The reason that bent cliche gets a lot of use in rightwing circles because it makes the country look and sound more like the domain of Republicans than it does Democrats. It's an old meme -- one that grows a longer beard with every boring rehash.
I'd only partially agree with one thing you've said in all these posts: "Both parties are made up mostly of criminals- i.e., they break the law." This is what you get when you have corporations determining who runs our country. It's about to get worse, once campaign finance restrictions are put to rest.
J Lewd,
I assure you, the misspelling of Libertyarian was unintentional, and since I consider psychoanalysis to be a rather dubious science at best (in no small part due to Freud, himself), you may draw your own conclusions as to any possible underlying reasons. I spelled it the way I thought I saw it at a glance. Thanks for the compliments.
Libertyarian,
The notion of "rugged individualism" has two fathers: first, the Madisonian notion that the "opulent minority" needed to be protected from the rabble; and second, the Jeffersonian ideal you expressed, which restrains the power of the government to abuse us as individuals. Corporations, which did not exist at the time of the framers, arose out of a need for groups of people to raise funds for public works projects. Later, it became a for-profit mechanism for generating capital. It has since grown into something quite dangerous, which regularly threatens the very individual rights we'd all like to defend.
My point earlier was that as individuals, we're expected to choose our masters: corporate or political. I would argue that the Madison-Jefferson dichotomy is a false choice, but it mirrors the one-dimensional thinking that encapsulates duopoly ideology. On the right, it's "American" rip the shackles from the corporate cartels, but "un-American" to organize labor or lobby elected officials to defend individual rights against corporate tyranny. On the left, governments are of the people, by the people and for the people, hence they have an obligation to the people, not just to monied interests.
You are correct: we don't live in a democracy, we live in a polyarchy, where the power resides in the hands of the opulent few, and every few years we are invited to choose between what we commonly refer to as the lesser of two evils. Barring only the most extreme of circumstances, there isn't much difference between the two, but it makes for a lot of high drama.
As the Democrats take yet another dive on health care, it seems pretty obvious that this is all just theater.
I would add after reading one of J Lewd's earlier comments that the unceasing, fact-free attacks on Barack Obama from the right, from birth certificates to the repeated accusations that he is a racist, aren't fooling anyone. The initiation of the subject of race by white, conservative demagogues, obviates the motive. We have protected speech, ideally to point out the flaws in government and even in society, but too often people forget that freedom isn't just a right, it's a responsibility. Caveat emptor: let the buyer beware. In other words, we're responsible for the goods we buy (and the lies we swallow).
Guns and angry words make for dangerous mobs, but never greater freedom. That is achieved through reason.
Like I said, I think this is all political theater, but it's in everyone's interest that the show closes without blood being shed.
I'd simply like to remind people that just because one republican makes a rash and disrespectful statement does *not* mean other republicans feel the same way. Saying that there is no place for republicans in politics because of Joe Wilson is like saying there's no place for African Americans in America because of OJ Simpson, or for Germans because of Hitler. It's a completely irrational statement, and I imagine no one would wish to be categorized because of one other person in their ethnic/social group. Obviously, there are many bad seeds, but there are a great many more good ones. Unfortunately, most of us are incapable of seeing past our emotions; which, might I add, is the reason for this whole mess to begin with.
So please, think before you speak.