By John Byrne
President Barack Obama has quietly decided to bypass Congress and allow the indefinite detention of terrorist suspects without charges.
The move, which was controversial when the idea was first floated in The Washington Post in May, has sparked serious concern among civil liberties advocates. Such a decision allows the president to unilaterally hold "combatants" without habeas corpus -- a legal term literally meaning "you shall have the body" -- which forces prosecutors to charge a suspect with a crime to justify the suspect's detention.
Obama's decision was buried on page A 23 of The New York Times' New York edition on Thursday. It didn't appear on that page in the national edition. (Meanwhile, the front page was graced with the story, "Richest Russian's Newest Toy: An N.B.A. Team.")
Rather than seek approval from Congress to hold some 50 Guantanamo detainees indefinitely, the administration has decided that it has the authority to hold the prisoners under broad-ranging legislation passed in the wake of Sept. 11, 2001. Former President George W. Bush frequently invoked this legislation as the justification for controversial legal actions -- including the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program.
"The administration will continue to hold the detainees without bringing them to trial based on the power it says it has under the Congressional resolution passed after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, authorizing the president to use force against forces of Al Qaeda and the Taliban," the Times' Peter Baker writes. "In concluding that it does not need specific permission from Congress to hold detainees without charges, the Obama administration is adopting one of the arguments advanced by the Bush administration in years of debates about detention policies."
Constitutional scholar and Salon.com columnist Glenn Greenwald discussed the policy in a column in May. He warned that the ability for a president to "preventively" detain suspects could mushroom into broader, potentially abusive activity.
"It does not merely allow the U.S. Government to imprison people alleged to have committed Terrorist acts yet who are unable to be convicted in a civilian court proceeding," Greenwald wrote. "That class is merely a subset, perhaps a small subset, of who the Government can detain. Far more significant, 'preventive detention' allows indefinite imprisonment not based on proven crimes or past violations of law, but of those deemed generally 'dangerous' by the Government for various reasons (such as, as Obama put it yesterday, they 'expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden' or 'otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans'). That's what 'preventive' means: imprisoning people because the Government claims they are likely to engage in violent acts in the future because they are alleged to be 'combatants.'"
"Once known, the details of the proposal could -- and likely will -- make this even more extreme by extending the 'preventive detention' power beyond a handful of Guantanamo detainees to anyone, anywhere in the world, alleged to be a 'combatant,'" Greenwald continues. "After all, once you accept the rationale on which this proposal is based -- namely, that the U.S. Government must, in order to keep us safe, preventively detain "dangerous" people even when they can't prove they violated any laws -- there's no coherent reason whatsoever to limit that power to people already at Guantanamo, as opposed to indefinitely imprisoning with no trials all allegedly 'dangerous' combatants, whether located in Pakistan, Thailand, Indonesia, Western countries and even the U.S."
The Obama Administration appears to have embraced "preventive detention" in part because of problems with how Guantanamo prisoners' cases -- and incarceration -- were handled under President Bush. Military prosecutors have said that numerous cases could not be brought successfully in civilian courts because evidence was obtained in ways that wouldn't be admissible on US soil. The Bush Administration originally sought to try numerous detainees in military tribunals, but the Supreme Court ruled that at least some have the rights to challenge their detention in US courts.
Baker notes that Obama's decision to hold suspects without charges doesn't propose as broad an executive authority claimed by President Bush.
"Obama’s advisers are not embracing the more disputed Bush contention that the president has inherent power under the Constitution to detain terrorism suspects indefinitely regardless of Congress," Baker writes.
In a statement to Baker, the Justice Department said, “The administration would rely on authority already provided by Congress [and] is not currently seeking additional authorization.”
“The position conveyed by the Justice Department in the meeting last week broke no new ground and was entirely consistent with information previously provided by the Justice Department to the Senate Armed Services Committee,” the statement added.
Roughly 50 detainees of the more than 200 still held at the US prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba are thought to be affected by the decision.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Paolo Fiora and Paolo Fiora. Paolo Fiora said: Obama will bypass Congress to detain suspects indefinitely: By John Byrne President Barack Obama has qu.. http://bit.ly/3eWeK5 #altnews [...]
I propose that Mr. Obama's position be tested with an impeachment proceeding, televised on all major channels. This type of hubris must be stopped whether it is Democratic or Republican. It is simply unconstitutional. The Constitution is something with which Mr. Obama has had a spotty relationship.
You know, I have "severely" decreased my interest in following politics, because I know better that there IS not real difference between Democrats and Republicans.......and that all, if not, most politicians are corrupted with self-interest, instead of doing the work of the American people. This article by Raw Story is another example, which reinforces that view. Basically, what President Obama is doing here is really no different than what President Bush did during his eight years in office with regards to civil liberties, the U.S. Constitution, and the Geneva Convention, and, just as an American citizen who is looking at this in a objective (read: non-political) fashion, this is disgusting, to say the least.
President Obama promised "change" for many months before he got elected, and unfortunately, as with most politicians in this country, what is promised and what is done are two different stories. I voted for Democrats and Obama, and now, that was a waste of a vote.......I equally hate Republicans. Therefore, unless I see some real "change", I am going to stay out of being involved in politics altogether.
[...] Raw Story [...]
Is this some kind of sick joke, Mr Obama? Read the treaties we've signed and your Constitution again. Hang your head in shame, an educated black man of all people should know better. I expected it out of a dry drunk frat punk...
"Change You Can Believe In".
A change from a Rethug neo-con to a Damnocrat neo-con.
Bush III ! Where's that "Change" he was campaigning on?
The fact that this policy, ushered in by a corrupt administration, is still being used in a manner that can eventually become abusive if yet another corrupt administration gets into power.
The fact that President Obama continues the policies of a corrupt administration is what is so shocking.
Damn, change feels GOOD!
It now is quite evident that President Obama has taken the very position as President Bush used with respect to the charging of prisoners. Seems to be some "Flip-Flopping" going on here. I think the President is in over his head as a President and should have stayed a "community orgainzer with Acorn".
This is crap. Obama was elected to stop these abuses. WTF!!!
Unacceptable.
so in other words by his own actions he is saying that bush was in the right?
[...] here: The Raw Story » Obama will bypass Congress to detain suspects … google_ad_client = "pub-3658190228035086"; google_ad_slot = "1112917537"; google_ad_width = [...]
Change? What an absolute joke and if you voted for this scumbag then thanks for nothing! Just one of many signs that there is no such thing as 2 parties in this country. It's one group that has taken control and their agenda just keeps moving forward. Welcome to the USSA!
Should the constitution empower the President with 'Preventative' discretionary imprisonment?
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=6196
.
Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney are happy, how about you?
Seems that Mr. Obama is no different than GWB except for the fact that he is also a closet Marxist, an open socialist and lies all the time to the public when giving speeches on T.V. two or three times per day. Now this is what you call "Change". I would hope the American people keep the Free Market System and not fall into the trap of going socialist!
US Constitution doesn't apply to these prisoners b/c they are not on American Soil, then or now. Geneva Convention doesn't apply b/c prisoners were not in a standing/uniformed army. I figure Obama has found out things are not as easy as they seem to be, when you realize these guys are quite dangerous. Funny how the media buried the story.
Triangle of corruption - politicians, police and lawyers.
neerav,
I believe the politician you are looking for is named Dennis Kucinich.
I think Obama is literally a tool. I'd like to know who's wielding him.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss....
It's lookin' more and more like all we have here now is a Black Bush.
There is a very simple, tried and true means of dealing with evidence that is unusable in court. YOU DON'T USE IT and if it is the only evidence you have, then the suspect has to be let go.
LET THEM GO! Let the illegally held, habeas corpus violating detained prisoners go wherever it was they were originally picked up. It's not like they can turn Afghanistan from a win to a lose because Afghanistan is already long lost anyway. The 50 or so (illegally held) detainees are no real threat to a situation that is already lost so there is nothing to lose by following the goddamned law!
LET THEM GO AND IMPEACH OBAMA (and prosecute Bush/Cheney for their crimes at the same time).
If you ever wondered whether the Mainstream Media and especially the lefty NY times is complicit in helping cover things up when its deemed expedient by both repub and democrat, this should clear your mind.
Demonocracy is alive and well in Amerika.
Appalling.
O = W = BFF.
When one high-profile issue (health care reform) holds the front pages for a long time, you have to wonder how much sleazy crap is sliding under the radar.
Now we are beginning to find out.
and the fascist dictatorship beat goes on. when will you stupid fucks who voted for this goddamned turd, wake the fuck up and smell the DICTATORSHIP????
when????
WHEN??????????????????????????????
It is a sad thing that I fear my country far more that I fear any terrorist or terrorist organization.
We were sold "Change" but what we got was Bush III.
Let's prosecute under the Truth in Advertising act!
Obama will bypass Congress to detain suspects indefinitely...
President Barack Obama has quietly decided to bypass Congress and allow the indefinite detention of terrorist suspects without charges. The move, which was controversial when the idea was first floated in The Washington Post in May, has sparked serious...
[...] 200 still held at the US prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba are thought to be affected by the decision. (original link) Professor’s Notes: All that is required for the TROOTH to be understood and seen by all is [...]
@25
Sibel Edmonds was quoted as saying in the current American Conservative magazine interview that the New York Times was complicit in propogandizing for foriegn interests and Bushco.
I suppose they could be guilty of the same thing for the current Emporer.
YESIREEBOB! CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN! RIGHT OBOTS? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
Why are people so surprised? Before the election, it was pointed out who Obama has strong ties to ex: Brzezinski, Kissinger, and once in the White House, his keeping many of the same people from the Bush admin. in his own admin. People should be reading more journalist like Glen Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill, those who are doing real investigative journalism and not afraid of criticizing this administration.
Look up "Barack Obama's Kettle of Hawks" by Scahill.
The writing was on the wall in regards to this administration , Obama has not "changed" a thing and has furthered and continued almost all of the previous administration more diabolical and anti constitutional policies. To continually see and hear "progressives" defend this shill is despicable and shameful. I have yet to see Olberman, whom I like or Maddow how has done a few good pieces on this admin, come out and bash Obama like they did with Bush....Shameful!
No one is talking about the increase of contractors in Iraq, and the increase in troops in Afghanistan, the bombing in Pakistan and the countless number of dead troops and massive amount of dead citizens in these countries...SPEAK UP PEOPLE!
I submit that this power should be used against Dick Cheney and a number of his crew. I see this as an opportunity. Corrupt as it may be, let us take advantage of it. There would be no need for the investigation of torture, no need for the treason trial for the parties who outed a CIA operative, no need to prosecute the men who corrupted our justice department to make investigations go the way they wanted.
Save a lot of money. These terrorist acts against the American people can be punished by rendition.
I say this also means that when the Spanish proceed with trials for the international crime of torture, they need not get the Obama administration to agree, they simply render the perpetrators. A black helicopter lands at Dick Cheney's home, which is probably in Dubai, the perp. is whisked blindfolded to the airport, where a Spanish plane under diplomatic immunity picks him up. This is the future Obama is building. Tomorrow you will be rendered for smoking pot. You will disappear into a system run by John Bolton's death squads.
This is an abomination and a trampling of people's rights. Obama is NOT a great president and never will be. He gives fancy speeches, but actions speak louder than words Obama. This travesty of Guantamo will always be a black mark on U.S. history. A shame!!!
I believe Obama is NOT as he represented himself when campaigning. He has backtracked on so may issues, it is remarkable.
Euronationals in Washington continue with their crime spree; ie illegal abduction, detention, torture, rape etc. Add this to their insatiable desire to loot and kill non-Europeans; Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Honduras, Venezuela and you have a country that is a beacon of "hope, freedom and democracy" for the world...........................RIGHT!!!!
"so in other words by his own actions he is saying that bush was in the right?"
He's saying, Bush and Congress fucked up so bad "then" that "now" he's kind of fucked. These people have been locked away, being abused, for many years. You and I and everyone all know that those 50 or so people are, now, if they weren't before, pissed at America in a serious (and justified) way. How do you let them go now? How do you try them now, and find they are not guilty, but spent 6 years in prison being tortured?
Despite that, I say Obama must do the RIGHT thing, not the EASY thing. He MUST bring these people to trial with the information we have on them NOW. Period. If they are proved innocent, we damn well better try to make it up to them.. if they are found guilty, then lock them away.
But, face it.. we all know they are not likely to be guilty of anything. If they were guilty, we'd have tried and imprisoned them. The abuse they suffer is because an incompetent Bush scooped them up for publicity, then left them locked away and forgot about them. Now we're trying to find out how to deal with that.
So, no.. Bush wasn't "right", he was a complete fucking failure.. and made HUGE messes for the adults to try and clean up now.
"US Constitution doesn't apply to these prisoners b/c they are not on American Soil, then or now. "
The Constitution doesn't say jack shit about "only applying to Americans". In fact, our founding documents say "all men are created equal" with "certain inalienable rights". It's the principle, stupid.
Uncle Tom or Black Bush?
Look behind the 9/11 curtain ~
Like the saying used to be "out with the old, in with the new", it has now morphed to "out with the old, in with the old". But then what would you expect when he told all his supporters that he was against FISA and would vote to stop it and then at the last moment voted for it? But then all his supporters made excuses and said he would reverse it when he took office. Still believe those wild eyed and starry promises he made you while you all drank in every word he spoke as gospel?
I voted for Obama because I thought he wouldn't allow this kind of BULLSHIT to continue. He should be strongly encouraged to revisit his decision on this and remember that liberals won't accept this just because he's a democrat. Unlike Republicans we still think independently no matter which party is in power.
[...] Obama will bypass Congress to detain suspects indefinitely [...]
It's not just congress he is bypassing, it's the Constitution. The one he took an oath to defend.
Isn't that impeachable?
Why did all you people take votes away from Ralph Nader costing him the election. You spoiled it.
Kreiger (#19),
The Declaration of Independence (you have heard of that, right?) doesn't say Some people are created equal; it doesn't say All Americans are created equal--it says:
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL and as such, ALL MEN have certain inalienable rights!
This is the PRINCIPLE upon which our country was founded and applies to anyone, anywhere on the planet. What is there about that you don't understand!!!
"CaptainCrunch
Is this some kind of sick joke, Mr Obama? Read the treaties we've signed and your Constitution again. Hang your head in shame, an educated black man of all people should know better. I expected it out of a dry drunk frat punk..."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a sick joke, and one that we, the American people are NOT laughing at. We expected better from President Obama compared to Bush, and yet, we are getting pretty much the same deal. As an independent, politically speaking, I am pretty mad at Obama, and hope this will be his LAST term in office!
As the previous comments were with regards to President Obama's initiatives with respect to those of President Bush: "Meet the new boss.......same as the old boss".
[...] Online Store var addthis_pub="otero1"; Obama will bypass Congress to detain suspects indefinitely (Raw Story) [...]
[...] http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/obama-will-bypass-congress-to-detain-suspects-indefinitely/ a few seconds ago from web [...]
[...] John Byrne Raw Story [...]
Wow. The mental contortions that savantster pulled in posts 41 and 42 were both pathetic and typical of a standard obomabot/bushbot(same bot, different paint job).
In post 41 he actually excuses this travesty by agreeing to "STAY THE COURSE" and continue the wrongful imprisonment of the innocent, then spouts off some bravo sierra in post 42 about "principals".
Principals are something you either have and live by, or you don't..
The partybots of both parties are about as principled as a baptist preacher who runs a whorehouse..
You collectivists sicken me.
This should surprise no one, at every turn Obama confirms everything people like Alex Jones warned us about.
The left/right paradigm is an illusion, designed to make you cheer for your team, while accomplishing nothing.
The Dems and the Repubs are controlled by the same people and execute the same agenda.
Democrats, what will it take to wake you up? Obama is already a War Criminal.
Repubs, you are no better, you supported Bush, an unrepentant War Criminal.
Stop playing favorites, turn the tv off and Wake Up!
[...] to bypass Congress to detain suspects indefinitely ~ link ~ Unconstitutional and totally [...]
I told you. Obama is nothing but a phony with Martin Luther King visions of himself being puppy trained by the republicans.
Kiss the public option goodbye too and brace yourself for more butt plugging and cussing your mistake during the primary voting.
The republicans wouldn't have been this happy if McCain won.
The only people I meet these days that actually think Obama is giving us 'change' are the following:
1) Party loyalists that would sell their own mother for a 'win for their side'
2) Black poor people that somehow feel he is the Second Coming of Christ.
3) Olbermann and Maddow (they fold Obama's underwear)
Most others I know in my personal life have abandoned all support of him already.
Boy are these Bailouts pissing people off. Tee hee.
[...] source: Raw Story [...]
Not only should you wake up, you should also load up!
Alright then,
Lets begin by detaining Dick Chaney without trial.
barack bush strikes again
need more be said/
Dont forget this is Bushs mess Obama is stuck with, though this is the wrong decision. Politically, hes in a pickle. If he releases them and any of them do anything bad, it justifies Bush policies and reflects poorly on Obama. Politically, he loses either way.
As the bumper sticker says: Same s**t, different pile.
People are so caught up in the game of left-right politics, they can't see how they're being played.
The Republicans and Democrats both pretend to be radicals when they're out of power and act like the authoritarians they are when in power. It's by design, meant to co-opt the true revolutionary spirit of the people. Both factions are obedient to their true master, the true master of all nations, the global banking establishment. It's a centuries old con. Not a CONspiracy, a CONfidence game. There is no left and there is no right, there are only the FEW and the MANY, POWER and FREEDOM.
@54, you must not have read the full comment at 41. Typical..
I said, after refuting that "Bush was right [to do it]", that these people must be tried or let go. You don't get to hold them indefinitely, period. ... so what the fuck are you blathering about with your "bot" bullshit? I FAULT Obama for keeping these guys, but that doesn't mean I can't "relate" to why one would be tempted to keep doing the same bullshit Bush did.
I know you have a hard time reading more than one paragraph, but.. I faulted Bush for doing it in the first place.. that made a huge problem for Obama (and the rest of us).. but Obama is at fault NOW for doing the same thing Bush did.
I know it's hard for you to accept.. but I am very consistent, I don't play partisan games. I'm suspecting, though, that you were projecting.
Sadly, the right-wing nuts are correct that Obama does not believe in the rule of law.
This is very scary to anyone who values constitutional democracy.
It should be in the Constitution that Congress cannot abdicate it's responsibilities, and also Congress cannot transfer it's responsibilities to the President. Congress passed the buck to Bush and let him be king in times of war, and now we are left with it.
Thank you for keeping us safe and secure Mr. Black President Bush.
For gods sake, if your going to be a liberal (which I am not) please be consistent and put an end to this unconstitutional charade and reverse all of the policies of the pseudo-fascist Bush regime.
If you all would just get out in the streets and
organize weekly vigils and protests in front of each Democratic Congressman's District Office
pressuring them to start prosecuting members of the Bush Administration who violated Federal Laws,
we'd be more likely to have change.
The Democrats we worked So Hard To Elect
are ignoring us, from Obama on down.
They owe the voters.
Its time for payback.
Our Congressional Representatives must call for Enforcement of All Federal Laws starting with our
Federal Torture Laws.
Pressure them to call for expanding the
Justice Departments Torture Probe to include all those that Conspired To Torture (which is a Federal Crime with a 20 yrs to life penalty). Bush and Cheney have admitted ordering Torture. It is a Federal Crime, period! Prosecute!!
Prosecuting just the CIA Agents that followed the orders of Bush and Cheney's Torture Co-Conspirators will accomplish almost nothing in protecting we voters against right wing extremists. The higher ups caused the Torture and they must pay for it. The extremists who advocate torture of captives may very well eventually use it against average Americans who oppose them( Democrats might too).
Many of our Congressional Democrats are reluctant to even discuss the word Torture in public and are refusing to investigate and prosecute even the obvious torture crimes of Bush and Cheney. We voters will have to push them hard to get them to call for torture prosecution.
Get out in the streets in front of your Congressional Representative's office and raise hell. Start your own "prosecution" protest group.
KEEP ASKING ALL POLITICIANS AT ALL PUBLIC EVENTS
"WHY DO YOU SUPPORT TORTURE?"
If they aren't actively calling for enforcement of our Federal Torture Laws, They DO Support Torture and a dual standard of Justice.
SIGN THE PETITIONS
Demanding
prosecution for all those leaders
in Bush's Administration that
Conspired to Torture at ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
Only Prosecution Stops Torture, Abuse of Power, our Constitution & Rule Of Law
This will not stand.
[...] the rawstory article: President Barack Obama has quietly decided to bypass Congress and allow the indefinite detention [...]
So what can you or we do about it? The web is supposed to be this great tool for organizing but I don't see it. The most organized opponents seem to be that part of the population that is the least informed. I mean the teabagers, Red hunters, Islamofascist chasers, homeland security buffs and Second Amendment supporters ought to love Obama. Maybe they ought to fear some of his staff, and take exception to a few of his words but his actions are clear.
He is an ultra pro business President in line with Bill Clinton (NAFTA, GATT, jobs out of the country, Defense Contractors, etc). He won't even agree with the G8 leaders to cap CEO saleries. His trillions to business did not come with any regulations. He signed the bill that allowed concealed weapons into National Parks - a bill passed by a Democratic Congress and repassed when a Federal Judge put a stay on it. He supports the toughest homeland security measures.
Meanwhile, the progressives don't have a soul or an organization to carry even a teaspoon of their water. It is wierd.
Nothing less than I expected! I'm still waiting for the general public to wake up to the FACT that the Dems and Cons are run by the Bankster Bankrollers. Its not only right under your noses but the Ostrich Egg smegma is all over your pusses! Especially those of you that really thought there was really goin to be any change.
You've been duped again in an endless cycle of Democratic/Republican dupings!
If any of you want to learn anything at all, read The Revolution: A Manifesto and End the Fed by Ron Paul whether you like or agree with him or not. You cannot imagine what you will learn from these two books that should be sold as a set.
Before you do anything however you should read this:
Why propaganda trumps truth
By Paul Craig Roberts
Online Journal Contributing Writer
Sep 21, 2009, 00:20
Email this article
Printer friendly page
An article in the journal, Sociological Inquiry, [“There Must Be a Reason”: Osama, Saddam, and Inferred Justification, Vol. 79, No. 2. (2009), pp. 142-162. [PDF] casts light on the effectiveness of propaganda. Researchers examined why big lies succeed where little lies fail. Governments can get away with mass deceptions, but politicians cannot get away with sexual affairs.
The researchers explain why so many Americans still believe that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11, years after it has become obvious that Iraq had nothing to do with the event. Americans developed elaborate rationalizations based on Bush administration propaganda that alleged Iraqi involvement and became deeply attached to their beliefs. Their emotional involvement became wrapped up in their personal identity and sense of morality. They looked for information that supported their beliefs and avoided information that challenged them, regardless of the facts of the matter.
In Mein Kampf, Hitler explained the believability of the Big Lie as compared to the small lie: “In the simplicity of their minds, people more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have such impudence. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and continue to think that there may be some other explanation.”
More here:
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_5147.shtml
and here: http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/printer_5152.shtml
The Declaration of Independence gives us the right to take arms and throw off the bonds of government that does not represent us.
All this talk is bullshit and will lead no where. The nation wasn't founded or defended by only talk but common citizens who took arms and came together to fight.
If we want to keep our Republic free we have to fight for it.
If now is not the time to take arms to defend our freedom then no such time has ever existed.
Looks like the above comments make me a potential gitmo resident but in today's terms every man who signed the Declaration of Independence would be next considered terrorists also.
LOL, will Keith Olbermann have a nasty Special Comments on this issue? Oh, wait I forgot, Keith has his nose so far up Obama's rear that he had a dream about eating chocolate pudding and woke up with a spoon in his butt.
Told you all he's a PIECE OF SHIT WAR CRIMINAL!
I know RAW, you won't print this.
Way to go Black Bush!
I have to assume that those 50 detainees must be pretty bad. I doubt if any of their defenders here would be comfortable with them living next door. Probably these people were made much worse than they would have been if not for their treatment under Bush/Cheney.
The problem, as we all know, is that unless someone has been actually caught breaking the law the law can't legally hold them. Thus we read stories everyday about people killing others even when the police knew about threats. Why? because they had not broken any actual laws. That's really frustrating for those on the receiving end of threats from psychos. I'm not defending holding people indefinitely without trial, but make it illegal to treaten to kill others. I mean come on, that's common sense. Then have the trials.
I'm glad I voted for Dennis Kucinich and not Barack Obush
[...] http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/obama-will-bypass-congress-to-detain-suspects-indefinitely/ [...]
Obama like W. is a traitor.
There were only 3 candidates for president in the 2 major parties who held to a legitimate anti-war position: Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich (both Dems) and Ron Paul.
Obama is funded, in bed with and controlled by the same interests that owned Bush & Cheney Inc. - the Federal Reserve as part of the intl. banking cartel.
Now the House of Reps has a majority that have co-sponsored HR 1207 to audit the Fed. If the Fed is audited it will be terminated as the people learn the massive corruption and power of the Fed.
If we end the Fed than We the People can begin to reclaim our liberties and re-establish constitutional rule.
If not get ready for a bi-partisan national police state - just see how protesters are being treated by the military in Pittsburgh this week at the G20 summit.
[...] the whole story here: john aggregated by [...]
What worries me is whether this legislation will be extended to Americans on US soil regardless of any wrongdoing as a just cause to propagate the need for a political slant. Basically they can now arrest anyone, call them terrorists, and hold them indefinitely.
[...] John Byrne, The Raw Story, Sep 24, [...]
[...] Read more… [...]
Come on Lefts, are you really suprised the big man lied? Going to see through his glitter and glame now? Stop treating him like a Celeb and push him into the coals.
A good start would be to not read The New York Times. Once again it is a shame we have to go overseas to get good reporting on our own country.
Well how about that change you all believed in? You are all dopes for believing anything a career politician tells you.
Secret and indefinite, *cough* "prolonged" detention = mark of a tyrant, like the previous village idiot WH (p)RESIDENT before him.
Hopium high over for you, yet? Just as ALL pres. since JFK, oBUSHma= just another in a long line of puppets for the NWO Wall St. Banksters and their sycophantic minions of the Military Industrial CONgressional Complex.
I would have assumed increased troops in Afghanistan, no call for withdrawal from Iraq, CONTINUED and EXPANDED torture at Bagram, renditions, illegal wiretaps, secret and "prolonged" detention, RENEWING 'Patriot Act' would have been the red flag. When the Frakk are you people gonna wake up?
SUre, take the bankrupt medicare, medicaid, soon to be defunded by 500 BILLION, when over the next 20yrs, boomers start retiring en masse, inflation higher than actual cost of living, you think all this engineered economic collapse is by happenstance that it just coincided with the prospect of retirees and 64 TRILLION in unfunded socialist "mandates??" As if it was accident that Social Security was designed to kick in at 65 when average life expectancy at the time of its inception were 63?
Time to really figure out and connect the dot that a gvt, hijacked by corporatist fascists, or well meaning tyranny of good intentions liberals, perhaps you should reconsider whether you should be paying taxes to have an entity spy and torture you, bomb foreigners, and kill and taser without conscience, domestically, or take in the form of bribes "medical insurance" which only helps BigPharma. Any way you look at it, it's a bribe, but it's not one, when gvt does it, right?
Because torture, it does your body good, right?
Time we really start fundamentally questioning, in light of the coming dollar collapse, in which the American Empire would collapse faster than the Fall of Berlin Wall in 1989, in which NO social program promises would EVER be fulfilled, "what SHOULD the role of gvt ought to be."
Time is now. Gvt should NEVER be some bloated in your face write useless attempt to legislate stupidity or social engineer human behavior. Or bomb, torture, main, or kill. Imagine IF the gvt had to equally take a Hippocratic Oath, instead of double crossing Hypocritical Oath. I'd say it's high time we get rid of much of BS in gvt expansion, since WWII buildup, and shrink it with focus on local and State. Even IF you don't want it, financially, it is COMPLETELY bankrupt. It cannot PAY for anything anymore. Why should the State gvts pay the FEDs only to get 30% of it back, and gotta fight and use lobbyists for money that already belonged to us?
Time to re-examine the fundamental need and necessity for EVERYTHING, including cops, the biggest non-productive, most institutionalized violent entity, sanctioned street gang in America, who does NOTHING BUT create chaos, havoc, and murder. Except for real investigators, it'd be far more peaceful society if everyone took it upon themselves to learn to defend themselves.
Time to, indeed, re-examine EVERYTHING. Better to consider now, than be FORCED to deal with it more chaotically with assholes in DC dictating more gvt powers to "solve" problems that they initially created in the first place.
Tine is NOW, my fellow Americans.
The courts will strike it down eventually.
It is amazing anyone is surprised about this. Conservative talk radio warned that he would do this stuff.
He tells the public what they want to hear, then does what he wants to do. That is why he is so bad at answering questions without the teleprompter telling him what to say. He doesn't believe it. It is not part of his core beliefs.
I have the comments that have een posted since I made my two posts yesterday, and I agree with the opnions here. I was a strong Democrat during the Bush Administration, but soon realized that politicians on BOTH sides of the political spectrum are corrupt (maybe except Dennis Kucinich). Regardless of political affiliation, the Constitution SHOULD NOT EVER be violated.......period.
I don't believe in politics, but what I "DO" believe in, Ladies and Gentlemen, are solutions that benefit EVERYBODY, not just one race, or one religion or one political party. It is unfortunate, to say the least, that Obama's move to extend the indefinite detention is benefiting NO ONE.......it is hurting our reputation as the beacon of hope that other nations have seen us as.
I urge my fellow Raw Story readers to come up with a way in which we can send a message to Obama to change this policy, which is a violation of not only the U.S. Constitution, but of the Geneva Conventions as well.
Specifically name one American citizen whose civil rights were trampled under Pres Bush.
Pres. Bush told everyone exactly what he was going to do, then did it. No one ever misunderstood him, no matter how bad his grammer.
Pres. Obama told everyone what he was going to do and hasn't done anything that he said he was going to. He does whatever he feels like doing without regard to what he previously said.
You can call Bush whatever you like, but a fascist or tyrant or dictator would never have told the truth, and would never have relinquished power once his term was over. A true tyrant would change the rules so that he could stay in power. If Obama tries to change the rules quietly, so that he can stay in power, then he would be a tyrant. Changing the rules quietly so that he can detain anyone he wants is a sign of worse things to come.
To all the people who want to release these 50 (and I suspect that a lot of you are Repugs in disguise trying to create opposition to Obama; others are confused ultra-liberals who think it would be wrong to slap the hand of convicted terrorists). Here's the scenario I suspect you're hoping for. Under pressure Obama releases these people, people who have vowed to kill others if they are released. They immediately get together and find a way to massacre thousands of Americans. Another 911. Then you begin to gleefully point the fingers at Obama calling him a mass murderer. That about right? Thought so.
There is no doubt that the situation was made infinitely worse under the Bush regime. He turned fence-sitters into sworn enemies. But now that's what they are. Do you just release people who have sworn to kill others just because they haven't actually commited the crime - yet?
Seems to me that they need to find anther way to deal with them. Indefinite detention without a trial is unconstitutional and un-American. But they also have to take into account the threat of just releasing them as well. That should need no explaining. Thanks Bush for all the shit you left.
Anybody can write a story. Get the facts. Request an explanation from the WhiteHouse to confirm if it is the truth. Its not good to get opinions on hypothetical.
Go to Whitehouse.gov Contact section.
[...] Obama Will Bypass Congress To Detain Suspects Indefinitely [...]
evil
Here's a crazy idea: You gather evidence, charge the suspects with whatever crime that evidence implicates, hold a public trial by jury, convict if proven guilty, sentence them to a public maximum security prison for a term in proportion to the danger they represent to the safety of the people. I assume for most of them that would be life.
The defense of habeas corpus shouldn't be that controversial at this late a point in human history.
what's entertaining actually is watching libs/progressive hypocrites trying to rationalize a deeper meaning in obombya's possible motivations.. when he literally lies and dupes em at every turn...so ironically,there is no difference between these devoted knobs and the schmucks that gave the war criminal bush and co. the benefit of the doubt..with torture..or the whole 9/11 fairy tale...the meat grinder keeps grindin..while the paradigms do the politico samba,divided and the country is financially raped blind and conquered.
To think that these 50 detainees are simply choir boys caught up in a miscarriage of justice is true pollyanna logic.
Many of these detainees were not captured in the US but rather in the field of battle. The courts should have allowed them to be tried by military tribunal where the idiotic exceptions placed by fancy defense (get my guilty client off so I look good) lawyers are not in play. Then we'd have a hearing of their circumstances, with each having a chance to explain themselves.
[...] US President Barack Obama has quietly decided to bypass Congress and allow the indefinite detention of terrorist suspects without charges. [...]
Dear Sheesh,
Do you also support lynching? Because that is what is happening to a lot of people that are being swept up and detained and punished without any legal process.
No one, including FOX news really knows if these people have "threatened to kill people" because they have not had the benefit of a trial.
If you wish to live in a country where people don't have civil rights, you have a lot of choices. If you are going to stay here you need to stop undermining our hard won freedoms.
[...] The Raw Story » Obama will bypass Congress to detain suspects indefinitely. President Barack Obama has quietly decided to bypass Congress and allow the indefinite detention of terrorist suspects without charges. [...]
Kreiger wrote, "US Constitution doesn't apply to these prisoners b/c they are not on American Soil, then or now. Geneva Convention(GC) doesn't apply b/c prisoners were not in a standing/uniformed army."
There are 14 territories of the world that are not part of the US and yet the Constitution is adhered to in these places. To name 3, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, and Guam. The statement that Gitmo is not American soil is a copout as is the denial of rights under the GC. If it's not covered by our civilian and/or military laws then we shouldn't be there. The detainees were members of an organized military resistance to invasion from a foreign country(US).
The reason the US government doesn't want them to be covered under the GC is because unlawful combatants are covered under the Fourth Geneva Convention (1950) and Protocol II signed by the US in 1977.
In 1958 the ICRC held that "There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can be outside the law," It is inherently wrong to hold them without charges filed and trials held. Furthermore the UN accepted the GC as "customary international law" in 1993 to be followed by all nations.
The holding of "unlawful combatants" without trial simply because your evidence is too weak should be a outrage to every Constitution loving American. At some point the term "enemy combatant" can and will be expanded to include political dissident Americans.
Our Founding Fathers fought against this very thing and it is the reason they wrote "habeus corpus, speedy trial and facing accuser provisions into the Constitution.
If the evidence is strong enough bring the unlawful combatants to trial, if not then cut them loose. That is the morally correct, the legal, and the humanitarian thing to do. Lastly, it's the American thing to do!
Those who sacrifice freedom for security will end up with neither.
@ 102 - name ONE instance of someone being lynched, please. You can't just go making statements like that without evidence!
There have, on the other hand, been many actual instances of detainees being released and going right back to the battlefield and killing our soldiers and/or innocent civilians.
Also, outside of Abu Ghraib, please name any actual torture conducted by U.S. Forces or CIA, except any waterboarding incidents. I'm sorry, but any technique that our own forces undergo in training is not torture!
Anyone, anyone of us, could be dragged to a foreign country and be tortured and detained. It is a slippery slope that needs a little gravel from Constitution believers.
Change? The only change I see is that Bush lied behind our backs and obama lies right tio our faces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
OK, that's it. I take back all support I gave the man. Impeach immediately.
And Desert Rat, just because we train for torture does not mean we should use it on our enemies.
Conservatives, here's your chance. Take him. I won't be there to argue with you.
Bypassing CONgress is Treason. CONgress no doing the job is treason. They all need to go (except Ron Paul, because he calls them all out on the carpet, cites the Constitution every time and understands sound money).
To understand Mr. Obama fully, it must first be understood, is that he was fielded by the elite and his allegiance is to them and not those who merely voted for him.
He made his peace with these powerful and evil men long before he lauded himself as the candidate of change. After all another lie more less is of no significance, it is the end that makes the difference.
Hence, these consortium of rulers know that to implement the changes envisaged, requires murder and detention is a prelude. Those that criticize Mr. Obama as a detriment to Democracy and his promises is like being critical of a Timber Rattler's because it's poisonous and is liable to strike you when in range. Its the nature of the beast and the only protection is either kill it or defend yourself when you're in striking distance.
These people know that people do not die voluntarily and neither give up liberties or property willingly. They must be helped by deiceving them into thinking their government is benign and would never willingly hurt them. All the while the intent is lethal and fools as Hitler's Germany not only part with possessions but life itself.
There are some dastardly acts in store by DHS, NSA, FBI, CIA, US Military and other US Agencies. For control long ago slipped to them and the media generally propagates falsehoods to cover for them because it is the same elite that owns it.
Nevertheless, someone Greater sees all, otherwise hope would no longer be possible.
Farewell Nieghbors
If you wish to drop out of the political system because there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans, then you may as well hold out your hands so that the chains can be fastened and then get on your knees and say "Yessuh, master", because that is where you will be for the rest of your life.
I agree that this is an abomination along with all of the other tricks that he seems to be getting away with and that Bush & Clinton got away with but, I don't think giving up is the solution. We should be voting these people out of office and going after those who are working behind the scenes to destroy America and putting them on trial for treason.
Hmmm when will people wake up and know that BOTH PARTIES ARE THE SAME!
Time to open your eyes and breath the corruption in, time to make plans to either leave the country or defend yourself.
Let me tell you all a little secret.
It's a secret to reduce the population of the United States.
First, there has to be wars. The greatest way to reduce the population is by war. Wars are also very profitable to certain "interests". So, the People of the United States must be subjected to Wars - plural - the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, and the soon to be Iranian war.
These wars will eventually get very bad, as more and more Americans are killed, the more the rest of them will become pliable to the rule of the Plutocrats. There is no plan to "win" these wars. These wars are not being fought to "win". They're being conducted to bring about the reduction of the population of the United States - to bleed off the fighters in the U.S. They don't have to be killed. Just crippled or maimed to keep them from being able to fight. It hasn't gotten "bad" yet, but trust me, it's coming as US forces are deployed to more and more battefronts.
Also, the "integrity" of the United States must be destroyed so the world hates Americans. This has largely already been accoplished, as nobody like a liar and a hypocrit and if there is one thing the government of the United States excels in it is lying and hypocrisy.
The population reduction is a plan to keep the Plutocrats in power. They do not want a large body of citizens united against their tyrannical control of the US government, so they have to foment various means of reducing the threat.
And the United States government is not the only government they control. They control many governments on Earth, by virtue of their power to issue money, usually in the form of a central bank, privately owned, much like the Federal Reserve INC., USA.
Now, by all means, take your swine flu vaccination and don't even think you're not going to.
To the Ones who have ruled, now rule, and always will rule this planet:
I am not sure who you are, but it is clear that you have long ago won. I do not understand why increasing poverty, fear, scarcity, and misery are necessary. You create money itself and therefore nothing is beyond your grasp. I give up, and ask that you engineer a better standard of living for the lost creatures called humans. You will not need to regret it. Simply explain your desire for anything at all, including a diminishing population, together with a statement of purpose, and I wager it will be so within a reasonable time frame. And all the while you may certainly carry on with whatever fantastic pursuits you wish.
Thank you for your kind attention.
MV
Seems to me that there were some 300,000 heads lost to the guillotine during the French Revolution. A substantial number of them were the rulers of the time...
The way to solve this challenge is to kill all enemy combatants instead of arresting them and incarcerating them. Take no prisoners. Folks, this is a heady subject indeed. The good news is that this kid we sent to Washington might be getting a clue here and there. Be grateful for that. Don't expect much more, though. He has an awful agenda.
[...] will bypass Congress to detain suspects indefinitely John Byrne Raw Story Thursday, Sept 24th, [...]
[...] Obama administration formally backs indefinite detention of terror suspects without consultation with Congress. [...]
[...] there doesn’t appear to be much concern with rolling back the bullshit of the W. Bush years. “The administration will continue to hold the detainees without bringing them to trial based o... the Times‘ Peter Baker writes. “In concluding that it does not need specific permission [...]
[...] [...]
[...] * Says he does not need Congressional authority to hold detainees indefinitely. [...]
[...] * Says he does not need Congressional authority to hold detainees indefinitely. [...]
[...] * Says he does not need Congressional authority to hold detainees indefinitely. [...]
[...] * Says he does not need Congressional authority to hold detainees indefinitely. [...]
[...] annual deficit.* Hypocritical on the Defense of Marriage Act and Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.* Says he does not need Congressional authority to hold detainees indefinitely.* Continues to spy on peace groups through "fusion centers."* Issued signing statements, [...]