For political drama, there's always Florida.
A 65-year-old man cheering healthcare reform in Miami was punched in the face and knocked to the ground by an opponent of a public health plan, according to a reporter at the scene. The rally took place outside a Great Miami Chamber of Commerce event where Florida Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL - below right) was speaking.
"Luis Perrero of Coral Gables was standing among about 40 Democratic activists and union workers when a man in a Ford pick-up truck pulled up to the rally at Jungle Island and began arguing with the crowd," the Herald's Tolouse Oloronippa blogged Wednesday. "The man, who only gave his first name as Raul, said Perrero called him a Spanish curse word. He punched Perrero in the face. Perrero fell to the ground and lay motionless for a few minutes."
"I'm amazed the way this has become such a politicized issue,'' Perrero told Oloronippa. "It shows that people who are against the public option will resort to anything, including battery on a senior citizen to prevent healthcare reform.''
"It was totally uncalled for," Wilhelmina Ford, another public healthcare supporter quipped. "The guy may have had words with him but he didn't have to hit him in the face.''
Nelson, a conservative Democrat, has signaled his opposition to a public health plan. On Sunday, he said that healthcare reform would pass in some form -- but without a public option, which would allow the federal government to compete with private health insurers on price and likely drive down costs.
"The public option is only one of hundreds of issues concerned with health care reform," Nelson quipped. "Public option means different things to different people. Some people think of it as socialized medicine, but that type is not and has not ever been considered."
"Any public option will not pass," he added.
-John Byrne
Violence completes the partial mind.
I wouldn't worry about the Taliban or Al Qaeda in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Terrorists are already here in the form of the Right Wing Republican Zealots!
To bad the police and the FBI take no interest in these incidents nor do they apprehend the perps.
But when things start to explode around the country, maybe the locals and the Feds will stop chasing druggies and tittie dancers.
Do take that as my prediction. Attacks/violence similar to those in Iraq and Afghanistan against womens clinics and health care reform rallies will increase dramatically.
As always my predictions are accompanied by a $20bill.
Any takers?
It's only a matter of time before Fox Noise and National Hate Radio inspire not just assault and battery but homicide by GSW. Oh, they'll all decry the violence and say they never intended that, but yes they did and do intend that.
What's next, murder?
Isn't that what Beck, O'Reilly, Savage, DeMint, McConnell, and Limbaugh want?
Ben Nelson better get on the Demo bus if he wants to remain a Senator.
Of course it won't pass with a public option as long as politicians like Nelson muck up the landscape, bought and paid for by the health insurance industry. The idiot who punched that man was probably paid by either the industry shills or some un-American Republican (there are no other kinds anymore).
Unfortunately it was bound to happen. Perrero is "lucky" that he wasn't shot. I hope the other guy was brought up on charges. If not, I guess it's OK for conservatives to use violence to further a political goal. What was that called again .... oh yeah: TERRORISM.
"Public option means different things to different people. Some people think of it as socialized medicine, but that type is not and has not ever been considered."
Who cares if it means different things to different people?! I keep hearing that, but it seems more like a complete line of BULLSHIT trying to masquerade as reason..?!
The "public option" is a government run INSURANCE PLAN. Simple. The "government", or "public" will present an "option" to traditional, private, abusive insurance plans. Not hard to understand (unless you're some kind of moron, like the people that watch fox).
You fucking idiots are the ones that let the term "public option" be a confusing mess and sticking point. To walk away from it because the right-wing has hijacked the term and framed it out of reality is to walk away from doing your damn job.
There is no such thing as a "conservative Democrat".. it's an oxymoron (like the right-wing infiltrators of the Democratic party). Call it like it is.. these assholes are MOLES, with one goal.. destroying the Democratic party from the inside so the PUBLIC never gets treated well, but corporations continue to reap massive profits.
It saddens me and makes me sick that people are so deceitful and dishonest. Those kinds of people are barely qualified to be called human, since they lack basic humanity. Shit flinging monkeys parading around in suits and rubbing their genitals, that's all they are.
And how can you be so against "helping others" that you result to assault and battery against someone excercising their rights to speak, assemble, and petition their government? Raul the ford man is clearly un-American. He also needs to be put in jail for battering someone.
Pretty soon a right-winger will use a gun.
People who are sick, really, only need Jesus! Praise!
whatever the subject, if the monkeyfollowing right doesn`t like it, it HAS to be good for America!...
Jeez... these People and their "Universal Health Care"... next thing you know they are going to want a fire department and somone to take care of the roads...
if what was reported in politico this morning is correct and the obama admin throws the public insurance opiton under the bus because they think itll make its passage easier.........i cant believe they're giving in to scum bags like a man that would punch a 65 year old man. what has this world come to?? silence over CIA tourture and people acting like barbarians because the govt wants to make sure everyone has healthcare. what a world..what a world!!
[...] original here: The Raw Story » Healthcare opponent punches 65-year-old supporter This entry is filed under Healthcare. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS [...]
these repugs are just bat shit crazy
""The public option is only one of hundreds of issues concerned with health care reform," Nelson quipped. "Public option means different things to different people. Some people think of it as socialized medicine, but that type is not and has not ever been considered."
"Any public option will not pass," he added."
It's dems like Nelson that will render this whole fight for healthcare reform pointless.
If you're going to be a 'conservative democrat' you might as well be a republican.
Atleast then they wouldn't be left with the crazies running the party and the democratic party's platform wouldn't become so watered down as to become utterly ineffectual.
More terrorism from the radical right.
Just a small idea of what motivates Red,white and Blue Republicans!!!
So the guy pulls up in a white pickup truck to argue, and when he doesn't like the way they argue with him (especially one man) he decides to punch said individual. Saying that the man cursed him in spanish. One, if you go looking for trouble don't expect people to follow YOUR definition of rules governing altercations, he went looking for trouble and he found it. And when he couldn't take the heat, he decided to regress to his Maladaptive behavior of punching or hitting anything that makes him mad. We are a nation of idiots.
McLean, Virginia -- Ben Nelson is NOT a democrat. He isn't even a human being.
The Blue Dogs have no care for others; they are selfish and greedy bloodsuckers, through and through. Nelson takes literally HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS from the drug companies and insurance companies.
He will get his, you can be sure!
Paul Matthews
The civil war begins. This should be the "punch" heard round the country.
These people are GARBAGE. Truly the absolute FILTH of the Earth. They ONLY care about their offshore bank-accounts of untaxed money that they received in bribes from the health-insurance industry. They ONLY care about multinational corporations, business, banks, war profiteering, and "security" (yeah RIGHT!). If it's for War, or bailing out multinational corporations, or for bailing out banks... they've got ALL the money in the world. But if it has ANYTHING to do with the PEOPLE of this nation... It's ALWAYS a NO GO.
Figures it would happen at a Bill Nelson town hall. Nelson is a traitor.
Come on man ,a 65 yr. old man. The R have no ideas. All they can do is call names and attack senior's
Msgt Moore/18D
You can call it whatever you want, Nelson. But it better have an option that drastically drives down the cost of health care in this country or you're not going to fix anything. And then you and your party will be blamed for either screwing things up worse or not getting anything worthwhile accomplished. And it's already been proven in many other countries that a national health plan works and works at about half the cost or less. I think it's about time Florida elected a progressive senator and not this fake Democrat.
He should sue Beck and Bachman and all the other irresponsible loudmouths.
Set bail at 10,000 bucks.
The more violent these nut cases get the clearer the need for national heathcare for everyone, with a public option, if only to assure that the intellectual Lilliputians access their much needed mental healthcare services.
John, you might want to look up the definition of "quip."
Raul was probably the Columbian Pharmaceutical representative...I cannot believe that any American no matter how incensed would back any non-reform approach unless they were getting paid. The Gestapo right hasn't changed...not since Bayer made lampshades out of skin.
Now you know why it probably isn't a good idea for folks to come to these events armed...somebody's gonna get their ass shot off and the 'right' will act like they never imagined it would happen. Guarantee you if I'd been Mr Perrero, and I'd had my gun, somebody would have had to tow Raul's truck home, cause his ass would have been dead. Some things you just can't avoid and if you've got a weapon bad things happen.
As much as I disagree with the average right-wing fox news watcher, I don't want physical harm to come to them. It's a shame that we are getting to the point where some of these people are getting driven crazy with fear and hate by ideologues.
It seems that we are destined for a tragedy - I wish some on the Christian right would remember to start acting like Christians instead of going on rampages.
Anyone who is dead set against health care reform in any form lives under an elephant and feeds on the droppings!
The issue of health care has shown just how easily uninformed people are so negatively swayed. The issue doesn't necessarily have to be healthcare to fool them, either.
A few lies, told in a sincere way, does the trick - whether those lies are told by the healthcare industry, the power industry, or the Pentagon.
You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
Land of the Corporations and Home of the Cowards!
How did this happen to A-merry-ca? Conservatism without Conscience
When did this happen? Several times in History ( Corporate person-hood )
aided by the Supreme Court & bigots in Congress! Also an honorable
mention: ronald (traitor) reagan 1980-1988 (the Death of the American pursuit
to form a more perfect Union )
Why does this continue to happen? Since Sharing means Caring we have
fellow Americans that don't agree with this (simple) task towards other
human beings! Pathetic
Where can we as a "Christian" Nation start the redemption for the Ted Haggert's,
Jerry Falwell's and the Pat Robertson's to pay for their pillage of Africa
and other Third World Nations where they were able to get away with Murder!
In the name of Jesus!
People and their "universal healthcare" hell! You must be one of the those big insurance pimps! Yes america needs universal healthcare! You scare tactics won't work!
Damn! What a lot of damn good replys! Makes me feel like there may be hope for the country yet. But I may just start to carry my gun and if I have to use it because some republican nuthead,wants to take a swing at me, I can always blame it on, beck,hanniey and o'reilly! They say it's ok for wingnuts, so why not me also?
beck,hannity and o'reilly are as much terrorist's,as the taliban are.They want the same thing,the over throw of the country.I'm sure that some of their charity moneies,go to the terrorist! You got beck,a DRUNK,hannity a ANTI_CATHOLIC and o'reilly a SEX PREDATOR! It's hard to believe that people belive them.
Lawyer-up, this 65 year old will now own the "nutsies" truck, mash-still, single wide, guns and ammo.
time to open the ovens again
Oh I almost forgot: Resign Senator Nelson due to being unfit for Duty!
You won't stand with a 65 year old American for Medicare for All
American Citizens! Sir you are a Coward in the tone of my man
Keith Olbermann!
The Revolution for a more Humane Society towards progress of
Loving will conquer all!
Fight the Power! Hmmmmm
Seriously guys, all this demonization of the right is to further divide the public leaving us defenseless to the true enemy...Big government. Their goal is to take over as much as they can, over the imfrastructure and our personal lives...
When you see an article like this, don't react personally to what it is telling you. EVERY article passed by big media is there to CRAFT the way you think.
Think instead, why am I being to this idea? Who wants me to think what, and for what reason?
Honestly...The idea of arresting citizens for terrorism....Was this whole terrorist structure not set up to be turned around on its own people?
Please, take a look at the big picture, and separate yourself from the phony left/right paradigm....There is much more to this, and if you are the one taking sides in a staged fight, you are missing the big picture. The government wants us to fight so it can come in and arrest a bunch of us! Don't take the bait!
Nelson is like a Republican....except in the Democratic party. He sure sided with Bush and the Repubs on alot of issues during that 8 year period of darkness in America. I will never vote for him again....I will vote for a 3rd or 4rth party candidate.
John
Oakland Park, FL
Our police and military are fine example that violence accomplishes.......Everything.
"Pretty soon a right-winger will use a gun. - - Juan"
Not worry Juan, a few of us in the crowds will probably have them as well. I know I will.
These strident health care opponents are the same religious nuts who want to push creationism in our schools, persecute gays and who secretly blame all this nations problems on people of color and 'liberals'.
Ironic in that they name themselves after a man who was a supporter of feeding and helping everyone - Christ.
Republicans can't hide their fascist thug colors anymore.
We should not deal gently with fascists.
We are becoming Nazi Germany. Once Obama gets tossed in 2012, all bets are off.
You're on, Coyote. $20. You can count coup on Poor Robert's Almanac if you win.
Here's my bet: There won't be any attacks on clinics and such as Coyote predicts. There may be a punch or two, but it will be kept to a noisy-enough simmer that nobody notices the troop escalations in Afghanistan. The authorities will be involved enough to keep it from going out of hand, and there's plenty of domestic surveillance to go around.
What's that? Another 14 thousand troops going in? OH LOOK! Someone's punched another old guy at a protest!
We have to organize and be consistently demand 2 things: Public option for health care, or universal coverage (what I want), and pay for it by bringing all our troops home and ending the entire middle eastern campaign, not just shuffling them from one sandbox to another. In these tough economic times, theatres are closing all over the place. Why is the government subsidizing this one? Imagine how much money we'd save if we quit throwing it away over there. If we have money to kill people far away, why don't we have money to help people here at home?
Who's profiting these days: Insurers and defense industry contractors. Profit isn't necessarily bad, but gross exploitation is. I don't feel any safer from all this extra security, do you? I don't feel any healthier because of the 'best health care system in the world', do you?
No matter how well the individual parts function amongst themselves, if they do not work together effectively the "system" does not work. If guns, drugs, bootlegs and cash flow like water through our borders, how effective is our security?
To those who say the two issues aren't related, look at where the money comes from. Us. You and I. We are the bottom line. There's only one pie, and if we have to "make do with less" then someone else is making off with more.
"We must all hang together, or most assuredly, we will all hang separately." -Ben Franklin
Please don't anyone tell me the dangerous rhetoric is not coming from the lunatic fringe of the Republican party. Which means all of the GOP. Thank also the talking heads on Fox and clear channel that gin people up with lies and a final bow to the health care industry, that in it's greed have given up even the pretext of sanity.
Greed, power and the absence of decency hang like a dirty fog over this whole so called debate. Money is the bottom line here. And class warfare. We have the best country money can buy. United Corporation of America. Predatory capitalism. Call it what you will. It is here.
Bill Nelson (D., Fla.) has been avowed to be a member of "The Family" - Fundamentalism, Friends In High Places (Fresh Air - NPR) 1/3
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsi2UCG4AoU ]
Ivanwald, which sits at the end of Twenty-fourth Street North in Arlington, Virginia, is known only to its residents and to the members and friends of the organization that sponsors it, a group of believers who refer to themselves as “the Family.” The Family is, in its own words, an “invisible” association, though its membership has always consisted mostly of public men. Senators Don Nickles (R., Okla.), Charles Grassley (R., Iowa), Pete Domenici (R., N.Mex.), John Ensign (R., Nev.), James Inhofe (R., Okla.), Bill Nelson (D., Fla.), and Conrad Burns (R., Mont.) are referred to as “members,” as are Representatives Jim DeMint (R., S.C.), Frank Wolf (R., Va.), Joseph Pitts (R., Pa.), Zach Wamp (R., Tenn.), and Bart Stupak (D., Mich.). Regular prayer groups have met in the Pentagon and at the Department of Defense, and the Family has traditionally fostered strong ties with businessmen in the oil and aerospace industries. The Family maintains a closely guarded database of its associates, but it issues no cards, collects no official dues. Members are asked not to speak about the group or its activities.
PS. His book "THE FAMILY" exposes the thumpers big time!
Know what I see. I see a blog post, no video, no picture of an old guy with a black eye or swolen cheek. No arrest record. A guy just pulls up in of course, a pickup and starts hastling a crowd and youre telling me that not one person pulled out their phone to capture the event? Come on!!!! Just a blog post. And shame on you!
"Seriously guys, all this demonization of the right is to further divide the public leaving us defenseless to the true enemy...Big government."
The problem with your argument is there is nothing wrong with big government. Period. The government is a servant of the public, doing tasks that the average person hasn't time to bother with. Seriously, do you want to have to read hundreds of scientific studies to find out if some chemical in dozens of products is deadly? Why should you have to? Don't you have better things to do with your time? Do you want to be a slave to scouring research just to buy soap?!
The reason people have a problem with "government" is because most of those same people keep voting against their own self interest. Why is it that other countries don't tend to have the same problems we do with their government? Why is it that in the U.S., our government is about corporations and not humans, and why do so many people say that's OK while still raging against government?
You say don't fall into the "fake partisan bullshit", but that's also an oversimplification. This is a fairly recent trend, and one that is fueled by "vile human beings", found with great abundance on the "right side" of the political ideology. Case in point, this "dem" who is clearly not someone from any semblance of a "left wing", but instead, a "right-winger" who put a D behind his name to lie to the public so he could get into office.
And those pissed about assault and battery aren't talking about "sides", they are talking about violation of rights. One finds it peculiar that "those on the right-wing" who are the loudest proponents of "individual rights" in public, are the ones brutalizing people who exercise their rights.
At one time, you were right.. the "divide" was contrived and didn't hold weight. What "they" didn't count on (and you aren't accounting for) is that the faux divide has become something very real. Those that _actually_ respect the rights of others and want to contribute to society, and those that care only for themselves and do nothing but take from life. If you want to set them in the "fake left/right" boxes, that's only because that's where they happen to FIT now.
What this article does is explains to those that are paying attention that they _need_ to be prepared if they plan on exerting their rights.. because the "right-wingers" out there probably WILL assault them. And, those morons also tend to be armed.. so be extra vigilant.
Good for Raul....
<<>>
...maybe next time Luis Perrero will think twice before throwing out insults at opponents when losing an argument. Gotta love how these people play the "victim" whenever they fail to back up their big mouths...
Oh yeah, anyone read section 102 (HR-3200) and still believes you get to keep your current health care insurance plan past year five???
No public option - no real reform.
Hmmm...better watch out, pretty soon some radical right-winger will be trashing local Dem. headquarters by throwing rocks through the windows and....no, wait....that already happened in Colorado....and it was a known Democratic activist who did the deed...
Seriously, all this tells me that current government policies and proposals are DIVIDING the country, not uniting it.
People are pissed off. And it will get worse, so the government will step in "to save us from ourselves".
This Nelson idiot is not the president, obviously. He is saying the public option won't fly, but what does he know about anything, really?
[...] this doesn’t tell you what ignorant bags of batshit are on the anti-healthcare reform [...]
That's conservatives for you. And unpunished, too. Shit.
this should surprise no one... violence is always the answer for Brown Shirts, Crusaders, and National Socialists. And anyone who supports the GOP positions these days pretty much falls into all 3 categories...
NO CO-OP'S! A Little History Lesson
Young People. America needs your help.
More than two thirds of the American people want a single payer health care system. And if they cant have a single payer system 77% of all Americans want a strong government-run public option on day one (86% of democrats, 75% of independents, and 72% of republicans). Basically everyone.
According to a new AARP POLL: 86 percent of seniors want universal healthcare security for All, including 93% of Democrats, 87% of Independents, and 78% of Republicans. And 79% of seniors support creating a new strong Government-run public option plan, available immediately. Including 89% of Democrats, 80% of Independents, and 61% of Republicans, STUNNING!! Senator Max Baucus, You better come out of committee with a strong government-run public option available on day one.
The History:
Our last great economic catastrophe was called the Great Depression. Then as now it was caused by a reckless, and corrupt Republican administration and republican congress. FDR a Democrat, was then elected to save the nation and the American people from the unbridled GREED and profiteering, of the unregulated predatory self-interest of the banking industry and Wallstreet. Just like now.
FDR proposed a Government-run health insurance plan to go with Social Security. To assure all Americans high quality, easily accessible, affordable, National Healthcare security. Regardless of where you lived, worked, or your ability to pay. But the AMA riled against it. Using all manor of scare tactics, like Calling it SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!! :-0
So FDR established thousands of co-op's around the country in rural America. And all of them failed. The biggest of these co-op organizations would become the grandfather of the predatory monster that all of you know today as the DISGRACEFUL GREED DRIVEN PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance industry. And the DISGRACEFUL GREED DRIVEN PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare industry.
This former co-op would grow so powerful that it would corrupt every aspect of healthcare delivery in America. Even corrupting the Government of the United States.
This former co-op's name is BLUE CROSS/BLUE SHIELD.
Do you see now why even the suggestion of co-op's is ridiculous. It makes me so ANGRY! Co-op's are not a substitute for a government-run public option.
They are trying to pull the wool over our eye's again. Senators, if you don't have the votes now, GET THEM! Or turn them over to us. WE WILL! DEAL WITH THEM. Why do you think we gave your party Control of the House, Control of the Senate, Control of the Whitehouse. The only option on the table that has any chance of fixing our healthcare crisis is a STRONG GOVERNMENT-RUN PUBLIC OPTION.
An insurance mandate and subsidies without a strong government-run public option choice available on day one, would be worse than the healthcare catastrophe we have now. The insurance, and healthcare industry have been very successful at exploiting the good hearts of the American people. But Congress and the president must not let that happen this time. House Progressives and members of the Tri-caucus must continue to hold firm on their demand for a strong Government-run public option.
A healthcare reform bill with mandates and subsidies but without a STRONG government-run public option choice on day one, would be much worse than NO healthcare reform at all. So you must be strong and KILL IT! if you have too. And let the chips fall where they may. You can do insurance reform without mandates, subsidies, or taxpayer expense.
Actually, no tax payer funds should be use to subsidize any private for profit insurance plans. So, NO TAX PAYER SUBSIDIES TO PRIVATE FOR PROFIT PLANS. Tax payer funds should only be used to subsidize the public plans. Healthcare reform should be 100% for the American people. Not another taxpayer bailout of the private for profit insurance industry, disguised as healthcare reform for the people.
God Bless You
Jacksmith — Working Class
Twitter search #welovetheNHS #NHS Check it out
(http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/)
Senator Bernie Sanders on healthcare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSM8t_cLZgk&feature=player_embedded)
American HEROES!!
Click replay to play http://bit.ly/j31oU
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbWw23XwO5o) CYBER WARRIORS!! - TAKE THIS VIRAL
I'm sure they didn't arrest the assault perpetrator because the Democrats don't want to look like they aren't getting along.
"maybe next time Luis Perrero will think twice before throwing out insults at opponents when losing an argument."
free speech is not a crime, assault is.
you're a fucking moron, but thanks for playing.
"Oh yeah, anyone read section 102 (HR-3200) and still believes you get to keep your current health care insurance plan past year five???"
EVERY time I've seen anything posted by some moron claiming "the bill says"... has been wrong. I'll not take your word for it, thanks.
post the wording, or fuck off.
The opponents are threatened by health care reform because the majority of them or certifiably insane or addicts.
[...] [...]
Would this be the same Raul Anasagasti who owns an air conditioning company in Miami, and was seemingly the recipient of a loan for 25 grand from the federal government? Clearly this is a man who opposes socialism. Y'know, unless it's going to him.
madtom is on the right track. The ONLY track that will bring about real change.
Rex Ozone:
A fable you believe as "fact"?
"Rex Ozone
The Gestapo right hasn't changed...not since Bayer made lampshades out of skin."
No "lampshades made of skin" ever existed. Never. Nor "soap from human fat."
A fairy tale, like being raised by wolves after escaping from (Labor) Concentration camps. Frankly, propaganda you have lapped up like a kitten and warm milk.
Out of over 40+ million civilians killed during WWII, why the belief in one small segments tales of woe? Perhaps the unending and incessant Hollywood fictions?
ALL suffered.
Many suffer today, including having their organs sold to the highest bidders, by those oppressing them.
FACT.
popurls.com // popular today...
story has entered the popular today section on popurls.com...
To be fair: 65 Year old Man's Finger Bitten Off in Scuffle at Health Care Rally
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-finger-bitten-rally,0,7135717.story
Looks like a lot of socialist Obama-lovers posting here... Obama & Company wants to change our current version of healthcare into socialized medicine, not to reform the system. The libtards are out to socialize America even more, incrementally if no other way. We should be against the President's and the Democrats' version of nationalized healthcare because it is nothing more than further socialization of our country. It will lead to a system just like Britain, Ireland and France - and anyone who wants that kind of system has to be stupid beyond words. We must oppose the Democrats and RINOs who want a socialist/Marxist America, and we should adopt the same tactics they do such as ACORN and SEIU. Fight fire with fire.
Wake up, folks. The issue here is the impending collapse of our economy and our government. People are responding to the very real sense they have that this is not just coming but is in fact happening.
Being blind to this isn't going to help. Judging others isn't going to make this reality go away. Misdirecting blame is only going to make matters worse.
Man's Finger Bitten Off in Scuffle at Health Care Rally
The 65-year-old was apparently aggressive and hit the other man, who then retaliated by biting off his attacker's pinky.
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-finger-bitten-rally,0,7135717.story
I consider myself a dem but I think I am missing part of this story. This does not sound anything like terrorism. It sounds more like an argument and the guy disrespected him and got hit. That happens everyday where I am from, not sure how that is him trying to further his agenda. Just because of the setting doesn't make it healthcare related. Otherwise this wingnut would have been hitting every one who he did not agree with, not just the one swearing at him. Don't get me wrong, he is very much in the wrong on an extreme level. People please do not stoop to the r-wing whacko's level (and most are it seems nowadays) and use a story unrelated to politics to further your own agenda. Thats what Bill O does. People get punched in the face for talking trash daily around the world and it does not make it politics.
Looks like the 2000 Pres. election recount all over.Remember when the Repubs bussed/flew dozens of "activists" to Fla. to disrupt the process?Remember the 2004 Republican convention when a women displayed an end the war sign,and Repub "activist" kicked her after they knocked her down?..for some reason the right wingers,and not just in the U.S.,feel the end justifies the means.They drape it in the flag,and hate for "old glory".......The debate is not about health care reform.Only an idiot would NOT want lower premiums...I`ve heard the rights excuse for opossing it.It`s not what it`s about.It`s about Obama.It`s about he`s black.It`s about he`s a Dem...It`s about he`s perceived as a "Liberal".......People need to understand there are people who HATE what they don`t like,or understand.They know it`s not socialism,or Communism.It`s just a lable so they can hate.......Ed Rollings(?)former RNC chairman said it when McCain lost(loose quote)"the Republican Party now represents the angry White Southern male".........So in conclusion:it`s about hating,and defeating Obama!..Hate-Hate-Hate-Hate------and it`s kept going by Flush Limpbone,and Fox news..remember there are a lot of weak minded people out there who are easily swayed.It happened in Germany,Japan,Spain,Italy,etc.....it was always the right wing acting in the name of the "homeland"!...........................It`s time Obama uses his power.Both Houses are Dem so kick ass.No half witted make the right happy BS!Regulate the Insurance companies,or make them compete....Obama won the election.MOST Americans are tired of the right wing crap,and that`s why they lost.The Dems need to start acting like winners!
"Pretty soon a right-winger will use a gun."
They already have... many times actually.
JFK
MLK
RFK
Reagan (Bush #1 wanted him out of the way)
They also like ropes and shooting their friends in the face with shotguns blasts. They particularly like shooting small animals, like quail.
Republicans have always been the most soulless of the two parties willing to say and do anything to get their way. They have anger issues. They were the bullies in grade school and that asshole boss you had at work. They care about nothing but their bank accounts and cry if one penny of their tax dollars goes to help someone. They say that "blacks are some of my best friends" and that immigrants are causing all the healthcare cost problems... the same immigrants that wash their clothes, manicure their yards, cook their meals, take care of their children and pick the nation's fruits and vegetables so that we can all eat. (So you know why immigration reform never really occurred under the Bush admin.) They also quote the bible with great frequency yet do not live what they preach.
It's not all of them, mind you. But that's the general m.o. There are plenty of wealthy dems who don't give a shit about anyone but themselves, too, but they're less likely to punch you in the face for disagreeing.
I can't believe this crap! Punching a man in the face, in some archaic form of childlike authority, to demonstrate..., what exactly? That doctors, who had a full scholarship through medical school, need to make 40,000 on an apendectimy. That Pfizer must keep making 40 dollars a pill, just to get yourself hard, which in my opinion kinda makes them a whore. Doesnt anyone care were not helping the world with medicine? If you want to be number 1 in the world at anything, you can't think of yourself (..or your cock) and your wallet. Punching an elderly man in the face will sure shut him up, but you have not earned anyones trust or respect. I pity us as a country, and cant wait till it's all over and they have all been judged. To the public: do not trust politicians, you only elect them to tell you lies, not to accomplish anything, other destruction. Realize you are your own person, and have the power to change who is representing you. Leaders don't want change, they want to rule.
[...] More Healthcare violence Rawstory reports: [...]
"It will lead to a system just like Britain, Ireland and France - and anyone who wants that kind of system has to be stupid beyond words"
Um, what's stupid beyond words is how you don't want our health care system to be as efficient or as effective as those in other countries, systems that are much better than ours. How is it that you don't want things to improve? Why do you want to keep a broken system instead of replacing it with a working system? If your TV went out and you couldn't watch Fox anymore, I'm sure you wouldn't keep the broken thing sitting there.. you'd get it fixed, or replace it with something newer, better.. right?
you people. your brains just don't seem to work anymore.
"It sounds more like an argument and the guy disrespected him and got hit. "
it's not illegal to be disrespectful. it IS illegal to hit someone.
The Public Option is the only issue with reform... otherwise there isn't any reform... it's just repackaged Insurance Industry lies.
What is not surprising to me is Sen. Nelson's refusal to support real healthcare reform. He is one of the Senators who gets a ton of money from the healthcare industry into his campaign contributions - and so, what would we expect?
Until there is real campaign finance reform against corporations owning politicians, there will never be real reform. Sen. Nelson has been a disappointment to most of us in Florida and many of us would like to find a real progressive to challenge him when he tries to run again.
What do you expect in a nation of moronic assholes that after just a few short weeks of being climatized to 'violence at the town hall' . The media are the ones pushing this idea over the top of the actual debate.
Too bad Luis didn't keep his mouth shut when it comes to name-calling. Cultural or ethnic insults begat violence. Raul shouldn't have hit him, but Luis shouldn't have uttered the "offensive Spanish expletive".
This isn't about health care or Right- or Left-wing anything. It's about knowing when to keep your trap shut and not insult your opponents. And when to keep your fists to yourself.
It shows that people who are against the public option will resort to anything, including battery on a senior citizen to prevent healthcare reform.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It shows the people against the health care reform are nothing but right-wing militant whack-jobs.
Anti-spin,
Keep your jaw away from my right fist, ok?
Ernest,
I can see with your vast knowledge of english vocabulary, and your full indoctrinization by drug-felon Limbaugh, sex-felon O'Reilly, and the suicider Beck, you have again demonstrated that you have no answers to the problems of this nation, only more whining chants of "socialist", "marxists", and "communist" and business as usual.
I submit you have little to no knowledge whatsoever either of those three terms above. Also, your use of the term "libtards" further demostrates your intellectual retardation. You have no place commenting on healthcare reform.
One lesson for you: when you come into a site like this one, you don't use terms like that, because most of these people here will write you off as another loon who doesn't know much. You can use those terms with your equally retarded buddies over at Free Republic, but not here.
Does that make some sense to you, you fucking son-of-a-bitch? Now you understand that word, right?
"This isn't about health care or Right- or Left-wing anything. It's about knowing when to keep your trap shut and not insult your opponents"
This is where you're wrong, on several counts.. First off, it is about left/right when the right resorts to violence instead of words (we're seeing it more and more now).. It's also about left/right because the right _pretends_ they believe in "free speech", but if someone says something they don't like, they want that right suspended for whomever, but will screech if someone suggests the right-winger "shut up"..
Stop and think about what you said.. "knowing when to keep your trap shut and not insult your opponents"? really? like the right-wing isn't out there insulting people daily, over and over? The major difference is, most on the left aren't about to punch you in the face for voicing your opinions... they will either laugh at you (which might get them hit by the right-winger who has serious mental issues.. hence they are a right-winger) or counter your fucktardery with fact (which may also elicit a violent reaction from the right-winger).
Here's a clue for you. You _always_ have a right to "insult your opponent", you _never_ have a right to strike someone that is not being physical with you. Understanding that (and adhering to it) seems to be a right-left issue since the right just can't get it right.
"What is not surprising to me is Sen. Nelson's refusal to support real healthcare reform."
He's not opposed to "healthcare reform", just this particular type. This type has too much socialized and (in the words of Norman M. Thomas, in 1944), communisic. These words are old-fashioned; today we say "progressive".
"what's stupid beyond words is how you don't want our health care system to be as efficient or as effective as those in other countries, systems that are much better than ours. "
If anyone bothers to listen to the public testimony of Canadians and Brits, they'll find that their level of healthcare is far lower than ours, they have to wait far too long just to see a doctor for the first visit and subsequent consults for specialized care.
Get your own copy of the Health Care bill, "America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009", at
.
Then get a copy of the list which itemizes many of the problems embedded in it, at
, and start reading for yourself! Stop taking other peoples' word for what's in it and what it might do FOR you or TO you. Look at the tax punishments if YOU decide that you don't want to pay, or the way the IRS will be required to look into your tax records to verify your income and other details, or what it will do to employers if they don't cover you to the govt's satisfaction. Look at what it WILL give to aliens, legar OR OTHERWISE - do you want illegal aliens, who already show disrespect for our way of life, to get these advantages which YOU WILL HAVE TO FUND, through taxes, etc.?
I'm not against aliens coming here and living. Do it the legal way, take responsibiity, pay taxes, and keep the money in this country!
Patriotic? Liars? Give me a break! Take your hostile language and attitude, put them into a closet; start reading for yourself. Pay attention to what people have said in history, and realize just where we are going.
Somebody said that if we don't pay attention to history, we'll repeat it. So we pay attention to what people said, what they did, in the past; then we look at what they are doing now. That's called Learning! If you don't want to Learn, then sit back while somebody else fights for you. If you want to ignore what people are telling you and stick your head in the sand, I'm sure the price of sand will be low enough for a while longer, and several people will pay for a truckload to be delivered to your front yard, and you can stick it.
BTW: Obama's a natural-born citizen in the legal sense, so let's drop that smokescreen, shall we?
Geez!!
"If anyone bothers to listen to the public testimony of Canadians and Brits, they'll find that their level of healthcare is far lower than ours, they have to wait far too long just to see a doctor for the first visit and subsequent consults for specialized care."
You're parroting some things that were put out there by a few people. Study after study show those "claims" to be isolated cases, and we have the same problems in America today.
And, how do you calculate their level of care is lower than ours? on what metric? that they live longer than we do? that their infant mortality rate is lower than ours? that they don't have crippling medical bills that cause them to file bankruptcy?
> "This isn't about health care or Right- or Left-wing anything. It's about knowing when to keep your trap shut and not insult your opponents" <
"This is where you're wrong, on several counts.. "
when somebody resorts...
Go back to the first "resorting" -- the offensive insults. That's the first instance when someone should've kept his mouth shut. There's where the real problem OF THAT NEWS REPORT started. It didn't start with anything else, because people have been arguing and disagreeing for years without fighting. But the insults became "fighting words", and the rest is history.
You are not allowed to place blame on the people with whose stand you disagree. You can only blame the guy who started with the insults. And it makes absolutely NO difference which side he was on, which he supported, or what.
People can yell til they're blue (or red) in the face, and they don't have to get into punching matches.
It's the passion uncontrolled which got Luis punched, and that's all! You just want to keep blaming some other guy. Let Luis take responsibility for his role, and when you get into trouble for insulting someone, you can take responsibility for your action. Let's just hope the other guy in that instance doesn't feel like he has to hit you to get you to be quiet.
"Look at the tax punishments if YOU decide that you don't want to pay"
that would be the only line that you could present that I've heard of that I agree is problematic. Mandating insurance is wrong, and it's also not going to stand up to Constitutional tests. The government doesn't have the power to force you to buy anything so this provision will be struck down not long after the bill is signed into law.
"or the way the IRS will be required to look into your tax records to verify your income and other details,"
moot point, your tax records are federal documents and the government can _already_ look at them at will, for any reason. And, what purpose would "verifying your income" have to do with any of this?
"do you want illegal aliens, who already show disrespect for our way of life, to get these advantages which YOU WILL HAVE TO FUND, through taxes, etc.?"
I want the corporations to stop rigging the global market for their own ends which takes away our jobs while also destroying the economies of other countries. Blame the illegals on the right-wing and corporations.. put the blame where it belongs, on the money grubbers that pay them. If the illegals couldn't get jobs here, they wouldn't be here (they have cheaper care in Mexico, many Americans are moving there because it's a flat $250/yr for _all_ medical care in Mexico). Why would they "want" to be here, risking abuse and jail and deportation?
and the short answer is, we're paying for them NOW, this bill, as I understand it, won't change any of that.
"If you want to ignore what people are telling you and stick your head in the sand,. . . "
Um, or if you want to believe "lies", like "death panels", isn't that sticking your head up your ass? I'll take sand, please.
> I can see with your vast knowledge of english vocabulary, and your full indoctrinization by drug-felon Limbaugh, sex-felon O'Reilly, and the suicider Beck, you have again demonstrated that you have no answers to the problems of this nation, only more whining chants of "socialist", "marxists", and "communist" and business as usual. <
Name-calling: Silly, childish name-calling. That's the sort of claptrap which got Luis smacked. Get with the needed picture and start reading for yourself, see where the accusations of socialism, communism, and even community organizing began. From your comments above, it seems that you only take up the passionate hyperbole of the firebrand without taking up the history books as well.
Every American has the right to comment. Those who have served the country in the armed forces and in other services have dedicated a good part of their lives to make sure that you have the right to sound off regardless how stupid or silly or partially-educated you sound. You have the right be be silly or astute, and you have the right to assert yourself. Just be thankful you're not in Red China where you go to jail on a whim or even just get shot in the back of the head. That's one BIG difference between Marxism and Communism and this country.
Stop the name-calling. Present your arguments with factual references where someone else can find them on their own. When you get your paint in one bucket, you'll be amazed at how intelligent you really become, and then others will recognize that, too.
Until then, I don't have to say much about the content of such rantings and ravings and sticks-and-stones attacks, because it would be redundant. Anyone reading such postings can see for themselves. It's just a huge shame that such postings all-too-often go unrewarded with counterings of common sense.
Oh, one other thing: If you really dislike felons, don't look too closely into the history of some of our new "czars".
The links I posted earlier may have been obliterated somehow or for some reason. These are legitimate links and should not be censored. Here they are in another format, just in case the censoring was accidental or technical:
http:// [followed by] edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
AND
http:// [followed by] blog.flecksoflife.com/2009/07/19/the-hc-monstrosity/
Doc, you ARE a liar, and screw you for trying to tell us what Brits and Canadians think of their healthcare. They have spoken recently, and have told us basically to go to hell with our lies. I have in-laws who have lived in Canada all their lives, and they laugh at our system. They actually worry about visiting here and becoming injured or ill while here because of the possible ramifications financially. They don't wait in lines- unless of course they want a breast enlargement or hair transplant. If you have an emergency, you get seen right away. You can try to pull the wool over other's eyes, but I'm not going to let you do that with me and get away with it. We spend more per patient BY FAR than any other nation on Earth- and most of it is wasted on administrative costs- including exhorbident, wasteful CEO salaries.
I'll synthisize your argument into a simple sentence for you: "I've got mine, screw you, we have the best system in the world, if you can't afford healthcare than either die or go bankrupt- don't bother me....illegal aliens, illegal aliens, illegal aliens......."
You are a fascist, pure and simple. I have read none of what you are claiming. They aren't giving away free healthcare to illegal aliens. I agree, people should read for themselves- not what Glenn Beck tells them on TV.
Please explain to all of us here- WHY we should continue to do nothing about the healthcare failure in this Country- and don't deny that it's a failure because if you do, you are already unable to debate the subject. Explain why you think it's fundamentally moral for health insurance companies to hold people's health hostage for high premiums until they have to drop their coverage to make a house payment or buy food? Prove the morality of corporations profiteering from illness and death.
Its unfortunate that somebody would resort to violence over this issue. People need to exercise self control.
You demarcates and republicans are crazy.
Most Americans are too stupid to see that both groups don't give a rats about you.
Stop fighting over the capital hill crooks. They all hate you, They want us to fight each other so we don't come together and kick their asses.
Look, they want racism, every other word is about race. If you are against anything obama wants you are a racist. kiss mine. I hate all those crooks, black, white, red, green, pink. Yes, I said Hate. I can hate or love anyone I want to and that is that. Why is a human emotion now a bad thing? Don't let those freaks in office tell you how to feel. You can hate anyone you want. Just don't assault them fools. that is a crime gees!
Stop asking for handouts. What are you bums on the street?
Get some self respect gees. Take care of you and yours and help those around you.
Help your neighbors and they will help you.
Doc-
That's right, I called that idiot up there exactly what he needed to be called. I see you have no problem with your compatriot's name-calling, just mine. That says everything to me that I need to know. See Doc, I've learned to combine my knowledge of history and firebrand hyperbole when necessary when engaging in an argument. The two are not mutually exclusive as you seem to believe.
Also, I never challenged his right to comment. I only challenged his comments. Fascists typically like to claim that their adversaries are "squelching their right to free speech" when they get blowback. Fascists don't like debate. When they have control, they don't debate, they dictate. It's simple bully mentality.
So when you are able to post that you equally disapprove of the comments the other poster made, I might start to believe that you have some credibility. You seem to want to come across that you are "taking the high road" with your esoteric language and attempt to be a "referee", but your position is that of the low road as I spelled out above.
And I don't need a link to the bill contents. I have it all downloaded already.
Again, I challenge you tell me why we should keep the status quo that is clearly failing in this Country. Capitalism and healthcare do not mix well, we are already seeing that, unless it is heavily regulated which increases overall cost. Any solutions?
Dude,
I've been taking care of my family for longer than you know. My neighbors are a bunch of neo-conservatives that don't talk to each other let alone talk to me. They would no more help me than they would slit their own wrists. What country are you living in?
How much do you think I should be paying for health insurance? Should I have to make the decision between health insurance and food? Health insurance or heat? Health insurance or a roof over my head? Do you think money just grows on trees and I should be able to easily afford all this? I'm a pretty frugal person.
What my parents used to take for granted is now starting to break the average American. Is that a step in the right direction? I'm not asking for a handout, I'm asking for some intervention to help solve a serious problem. If I can pay less in taxes for healthcare than I have to pay a CEO for it, then I'm all ears. All I ask is a viable opportunity to study that. Neo-conservatives don't want me to have that chance. They would rather see me bankrupt and penniless.
"You are not allowed to place blame on the people with whose stand you disagree. You can only blame the guy who started with the insults."
you're a fucking moron. You can't understand the difference between "words" and "physical violence".. one is legal and within your rights (I have every legal and moral right to insult you), and one is a crime.
There's nothing to say to you because your brain doesn't work. You can't think your way out of a we paper sack to save your life. You are a simple shit who fancies yourself a king. And you're a waste of my time.
Doc,
Your second link is a joke. When I click on it, the first thing I see is that picture of Obama with the joker face painted on him and nothing but references to ACORN. You ACORN conspiracy theorists were shot down long ago. At that instant, all credibilty is lost.
You come on here and preach "the high road" about name-calling and being civil, then you send us to that gutter site?
Go away, please.
"and when you get into trouble for insulting someone, you can take responsibility for your action. Let's just hope the other guy in that instance doesn't feel like he has to hit you to get you to be quiet."
That's the fucking POINT, you MORON.. you don't get to make them "be quiet", PERIOD. If you threaten physical violence to silence someone, that's a TERRORIST ACT (which is why others pointed it out in this thread). That you can't see that is WHY you're a moron.
And if someone thinks they can hit me to shut me up, they'll find that limping for the rest of their life probably wasn't worth trying to assault me while I was exercising my RIGHTS (if you missed it, I'm saying I'll shatter the knee of anyone that tries to assault me for using my words). And what's better is, I'll be within my RIGHTS to DEFEND myself by shatter said fucktard's knee.
Here is Doc's approach on life:
1. Red good, blue bad
2. Not ok for health reform supporter to insult protester, but ok for protester to punch healthcare reform supporter.
3. When neo-cons rail against healthcare reform, they are exercising their right to free speech. When progressives rail for healthcare reform, they are denying the neo-con's right to free speech.
We've seen this song and dance before. Just go away already.
Savantster said a lot of stuff --
I said, "Look at the tax punishments if YOU decide that you don't want to pay"
You said, > that would be the only line that you could present that I've heard of that I agree is problematic. <
So, you sound like you haven't bothered to read the current Health Care Bill, else you'd see that there are so many lines of problems - real problems.
I sid, "If anyone bothers to listen to the public testimony of Canadians and Brits, they'll find that their level of healthcare is far lower than ours, they have to wait far too long just to see a doctor for the first visit and subsequent consults for specialized care."
You said, "You're parroting some things that were put out there by a few people..."
I'm not parroting - I've heard the testimony. You should try listening sometime, instead of doing your own parroting.
You spewed stuff like "That's the fucking POINT, you MORON.. you don't get to make them "be quiet", PERIOD" and " DEFEND myself by shatter said fucktard's knee."
Your true colors now show clearly, and that color isn't Red or Blue, is Brown. You really need to flush your mouth before you speak in public. And don't bother going to the library to research anything, they'll expell you for getting that stuff on the books.
You are totally unprepared for public speaking, much less discussion. Goodbye.
independent said, "Doc, you ARE a liar...." and you said of me, "I've got mine, screw you"... You also said of me, "You are a fascist, pure and simple"
you don't have any idea of what I have, because you are too stupid to think! You resort to that crude name-calling, like you really understand what Fascists are. If you did understand, you'd see a lot of similarities between the way the Fascists started and the way the current Administation started.
You demanded that I "...explain WHY we should continue to do nothing about the healthcare failure in this Country..."
If you had stayed in school and studied your grammar and rhetoric, and bothered to learn to understand what other people SAY when they write and what they do NOT SAY when they write, you'd have a slivver of understanding that I'm not speaking of doing nothing. You obviously have no inkling of what health care advances have been made in this country, if you truely believe that health care has failed here.
We have probably the best health care in the world, it's just not THE best. It's better than any other, which may explain why so many people come to this country to live and to take advantages of all that is offered here.
My point is that the current HC bill just is too chock full of crap! There's so much in there which isn't absolutely needed, that we're all spending our time and energy debating some smoke.
You said, "And I don't need a link to the bill contents. I have it all downloaded already."
Good for you. Now, READ it. That may well be a new experience for you, to read it and think about each point in it. You haven't done that yet.
And with your descent into the gutter with your language - "you're a fucking moron" and "You are a simple shit" - you show your true color - Brown. You, too, should flush your mouth before you speak publically, or at least before you eat dinner.
Normally, I would try to thnk of some neat word to apply to you in closing. But with your train of thought, I don't need to come up with anything, you've already shown the world.
Goodbye.
And, you too,
Sir Winston Churchill once stated:
If you are 20 years old and not a Liberal, you have no heart.
If you are 40 years old and not a conservative, you have no mind.
In my perfect world the guy who threw the punch would get sued by the guy he punched and end up paying for the cost of an emergency room visit, court costs, damages, and ...
Who am I kidding? Obama and his corporate Democrat buddies in congress have totally abandoned the people who voted for them.
"I'm not parroting - I've heard the testimony. You should try listening sometime, instead of doing your own parroting."
And I've heard "testimony" of a LOT of Canadians and Brits and French and others that would NEVER give up their health care for the laughable joke we have here in America. By virtually every metric out there, we're WAY down on the list.. yet you seem to think that's fine.
"You are totally unprepared for public speaking, much less discussion. Goodbye."
only if the "public" you're talking about is some ignorant, arrogant, puritanical bunch of jackasses who "shut down" as soon as they hear their first vulgarity. Your holier than thou attitude seems to be a major problem of yours, and shows you're out of touch with modern America.. I'm guessing you don't recall when that bastion of the right-wing Dick Cheney told a Congressmen on the floor of Congress to "go fuck yourself"? ... I'll follow his "fit for public consumption" lead and tell you the same.
you have no basis for your assertions, you've been dismantled over and over again here, yet you try to take the "high moral ground" based on swearing, while supporting a system that makes money by _intentionally_ killing people.
I'll say it again, in the words of your own people, go fuck yourself.
"We have probably the best health care in the world, it's just not THE best."
LMFAO.. uh, probably the best, just not the best.. yet we're ranked THIRTY SEVENTH..
You're one of those that doesn't use fact to form your opinions, so I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.
Your headline had me expecting a story about a violent Christian Scientist.
Despite what Obama and friends would have you believe, opposing government-controlled health care does not mean opposing health care.
Screw the GOP.
[...] this page was mentioned by Michael Wiseman (@gangsterofboats), Mark Wickens (@mwickens), kevanloy (@kevanloy), Jeremy Allen (@doctorfiresex), Jeff Flowers (@jpfnc) and others. [...]
The repugnicans are a very dangerous bunch of ignorant, bloodthirsty and violent thugs. Why they are allowed to exist, let alone dictate terms now is beyond comprehension. Their leader, chimp-in-chief bush, is a criminal. So is his crony, cheney. These guys murdered innocents, robbed and plundered at will after starting an unjust war with no bid contracts. Why is this not being investigated? If any genuine investigation were to take place, there is no doubt that both of them, and some of their crooked pals would be severely punished, but no one seems to care about their trashing of this country for 8 years. What has happened to accountability in the USA?
I feel sorry for Mr. Obama, because he is facing so much negative and racist noise from repugs. Do we really deserve to have this great man as our President? Or is the likes of gwb what we truly deserve, for becoming so stupid that we can't recognize dignity, class, intelligence and sheer good manners when we have it in Mr. Obama?