ABC News has released a news report saying it was "misquoted" on the size of the Tea Party protest that took place Saturday in Washington, DC.
The network says that, at some point during the protest, FreedomWorks President Matt Kibbe -- the head of the organization that organized the demonstration -- stood before the crowd and announced that ABC News had said the crowd at the protest was between one million and 1.5 million people.
ABC said no such thing. As Josh Marshall reported at TalkingPointsMemo, the fire department estimated the crowd at 60,000 to 70,000 people -- a "respectable" size, but nowhere near the order of magnitude that ABC says Kibbe claimed.
All the same, Kibbe's claim spread like wildfire during the day. From Kibbe's mic it went to right-wing activist Tabitha Hale's Twitter account -- where, somehow, the number grew again, this time to 2 million -- and from there it made it to conservative writer Michelle Malkin's blog. Once it appeared there, there was no stopping it, and the claim was repeated at numerous --mostly right-wing -- blogs.
"Conservative activists, who organized a march on the U.S. Capitol today in protest of the Obama administration's health care agenda and government spending, erroneously attributed reports on the size of the crowds to ABC News," ABC News reported.
"In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as 'tens of thousands,' ABC said.
-- Daniel Tencer
that's still a lot of nuts.....
Once Again- When the truth doesn't help your cause just lie.
There were more people at the ND vs Michigan game today than in DC...but what got more coverage by Fox and the supposed major networks? What does that tell you?
It's chaos time.
Release the hounds.
Run, scumbags, run.
I swear there was 20 to 30 million Amercans there.
92,000 I mean 92,000,000 at the Georgia/S. Carolina game.
Why the nit-picking about the size of the crowd? What is this? Another pivot-point for news and political activist deconstructing by the controlled ABC plastic press?Another talking point? Another large scale time-filler that can be used ONCE AGAIN to cross-filter and distract attention from the largest issue on the American Front Page?
The "ordinary citizens" of the USSA are tired as hell of NOT seeing any leadership from the 'qualified' candidates they elected to represent them in the USSA congress. One could ask "How would things be different if the country were under a Communist regime?" and the answer would be "not much".
There is no leadership (that we can clearly see) in Washington at all. The Congress is corrupted to the extent that Corporate and Monied interest can literally BUY the laws they don't actually Write, and Write the laws they definitely WANT ! Look at H.R. 1200 ! WRITTEN BY PHAMACEUTICAL and INSURANCE COMPANIES.
Now, I am downright ignorant when it comes to the specifics of just about anything you can name, but any 12-year-old can figure this out....we are being told: "The Constitution No Longer Applies, People" and if we don't like it, well, that's just tough, because this is the way it is going to be done. The Congress of the United States has slowly abrogated its obligation to provide the population with leadership, the laws it is making are unConstitutional and therefore invalid; and the abrogation has extended to Congress' authority as well. More than enough reason, on the basis of the Declaration, to "sweep aside" this government in favor of one that better represents the wishes of the people.
I saw a guy on C Span dressed up like he was from the revolutionary war.....I said to self........... The oppostion,,,,,,,, A circus act.
these people, sigh. The whole thing is really.... sad.
Go Irish!
At least ABC is trying to correct the record.
and who really cares if a million or more lunatics marched on Washington spewing drivel that wasn't rooted in reality? When psychos roam around screeching delusions, you don't give them any more credit than they are due.. in this case, my dog not licking his balls for more than 10 minutes is more impressive than these demonstrations.
I think it takes about 250 thousand to fill the blvd. and there was more than that!
Hey Rat, It tells you there are a lot of concerned people that have to take care of you drones that watch football instead of taking care of yourselves..
It has been called the "million moron march" by Bill Maher - perhaps that is where the rumor stems from.
I was there. There were 10's of thousands just outside the Federal Triangle Metro Station. Enough people there to cover Pennsylvania Avenue and all the sidewalks as far as you can see in either direction. That was about 9am this morning. The crowd great tremendously from there. In addition, by 3pm, I495 was completely jammed all the way around except for a few miles on the outer perimeter on the North end. At that time (after 3pm), no one could drive into DC and the Metro was just starting to move again. We got on the Metro at Franconia-Springfield. It then skipped most of the stations leading to Federal Triangle because there was simply no room to fit anyone else on. There were many trains from all directions just like that, plus thousands of buses. So to estimate the crowd at 60-70k is simply stupid. It was reported by CNN and MSNBC (both very right-leaning media outlets of course) at 1.2-1.5M. Search for videos of the rally on YouTube and see for yourself. There are many already.
YEs, well I saw it got lots of coverage and the media called it a SEA OF PROTESTORS meanwhile on October 26 2002 over 100,000 people protested Bush's rush to war in washington but it wasn't reported, that same day over 50,000 protested in San Francisco but it wasnt reported. On January 18 2003 in San Francisco Police grudgingly admitted there were 200,000 protestors after originally saying there were only 55,000, "several hundred thousand" protested in Washington that day. These protests were not covered. On February 15, millions of people protested, in approximately 800 cities around the world. Listed by the 2004 Guinness Book of Records as the largest protest in human history. March 23 250,000 protestors demonstrated in NY. March 29, 2003 in Boston, Massachusetts 50,000 people attended the largest rally in the city since the end of the Vietnam War.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPud1TeubM
These were just the marchers. There were 3 times this, down by the capitol, who came for just the rally.
To prove their delusion, they had all the Talibirthers / Talibirchers text on their phones to prove they were there. :-/
It's just the "Blow-fish" approach in an attempt to intimidate their opposition. When their story can't stand up to the facts, their only alternative is to make shit up!
It makes the prophets... powerful and profitable and the sheep pitiful.
Huh... that sure is strange, because I was talking to my mother about the protest, and as she flipped through the channels, she heard 1.5 million from ABC. Not to be outdone, CNN then said 2 million. ABC definitely did report the 1.5 million figure on its broadcast news report. I think they had even attributed it to a Park Service estimate (which may have actually been total visitors, still an unusual number, the average weekend day bringing around 100,000 people to visit the Mall).
On the other hand, ABC's website did say 60 to 70 thousand.
Interestingly FOX never reported anything other than "tens of thousands." All of the other networks (including ABC) seemed to have a contest of "who can exaggerate the most."
Unfortunately, we may never know how many local people actually joined in the protest. But does it really matter? After 8 months in office, Obama has pissed off so many people, that (at least) 60,000 came from across the country to protest his policies. That has quite simply never happened before.
As for the number that packed Pennsylvania Avenue. The entire length of the avenue was filled from Freedom Plaza to the Capitol. If you give a person in a tight crowd 5 to 6 square feet, that's 50 to 60 thousand people on Pennsylvania avenue at any given moment, and the avenue was easily filled twice over, so the real number is probably between 100,000 and 120,000. And then there was the National Mall, which was itself packed with at least 100,000 or more. I wish I could do better, but I have heard conflicting reports about how far down the Mall the crowds went (I'm basing 100,000 on 1/3 filled, but I have head it went all the way to the Washington Monument).
I really do have a problem believing that much more than 500,000 could pack Pennsylvania Ave., the area around the Capitol, and the National Mall. I think 5 square feet per person is a rather tight crowd. In order to get 2 million, everyone would have had to occupy 1 square foot (crush-to-death density). Then again, I heard 2 million as the number for Obama's inauguration, and that crowd covered roughly the same area (it lined Penn Ave, didn't fill it).
Rat618: That the mainstream media cannot be trusted and that it's a good thing they're all dying.
Republicans are protesting about how bad they got their asses kicked last election, nothing more.
Well, 2 million teabaggers is roughly the mental equivalent of 60 - 70 thousand normal people.
Full year now, boycott MSNBC, CNN, NBC, so now ABC can kiss my
dust as I leave them too.
This Week With George....... I like the Memorial and the Sunday Funnies.
But, the show has been getting weaker, the only saving Grace is
George Will.
I might tape it and fast forward it to the Memorial and Funnies and
just skip the rest, I do that when Donna Brazil is on. She lacks
anything I respect, as a result of her actions during the Primaries.
Journalism is dead...... skim the surface ..... so disappointing.
Spin and damage control. The loss of Freedom of Speech along
with robbing us of our Freedom to Think.
Well, I am one Democrat that would have laughed a year ago if
you would have said I would be watching FOX......... no going back.
Free at last......
Isn't there one of Bush's old detention camps we can put these people in? Just for their own protection, you understand.
Name calling thats all they got left. They have no facts, they cant say anythings even remotely going well in this country.
Look at the comments below me, now go look at the time lapse on youtube. Sorry but you all are way outnumbered in your ideology.
Keep ignoring, its only getting bigger, only fueling people more. Keep up with the name calling by the way... Thats all any of you are good for.
Unemployment up
Foreclosures up
Crime up
Prisoners early release
Cali IOUs
Trillions of dollars unaccounted for
Bankruptcys up
Homeless up
Dollar down
But none of you name callers have the brain size or thought process to understand any of this, judging by the comments below.
Calling a million people morons makes you a moron. Thats a very simple statement to understand if you dont then we just are different people. Signed Astro Turf
to theserf
Unfortunately, all the problems you list are the RESULT of the corporate/fascism which (you?) righties so lovingly embraced (or ignored) for the previous 8 years! All these pithy protests demonstrate is the Right's lunatic partisanship! Its OK under Reagan, Bush 41, & Bush 43 but Heaven forbid if such problems exist with a (ekk!) BLACK Democrat in the White House (for geez..only 7 months!) who has the god-awful task of cleaning-up the stinking rotten mess that your political idealogy created!
abc ~ Like I give a shit what you report ? Kiss My ASS... Right in the crack !
~
Theserf,
"Outnumbered" LOL
Look, I know there are a great many racists out there - Now stop your whining. Stop it! It is racism. Stooop. Stop it. Stop whining. It is racism. Why? It's been 8 months. 8 Months! All of this crap was happening during conservative reign, yet no moron teabaggers carrying fascist signs and pissing all over themselves in the streets. It is all racism and the march of the stupid.
What would you prefer? Throwing white republicans back in? Hey, you're investments have negative value, you're starving and had to shoot your dog and eat it while Xe runs around the neighborhood raping the 8 year old girl next door in the name of Jesus, but at least the black man's out! And those socilaists! Morons. All of you.
You want to blame someone? Blame yourselves for being so misinformed for decades. Buying the BS "fiscally conservative" "small government" nonsense from every republican immediately after they create record deficits while expanding the government. And you all fall for it. Morons. It is planned. It is called "starve the beast". And they roll you every time. Every single time. Morons. They use race and irrelevant social issues to get you to support them. And you buy it every time. It is soooo easy. Morons. You should be marching in your own neighborhoods protesting your parents for letting you become so stupid. Way to go! Morons.
You whine about socialism, yet are too much of a moron to realize that strong social programs lift everyone up, make everyone wealthier, (Democrats have a better record on every aspect of the economy, including national debt) When everyone does well, they demand and recieve better educations and more responsible media - and guess what happens then? The government ends up more frequently caving to the will of the people - see Watergate. (That was the end, by the way. They had enough of the middle class in the sixties. So the rightists started with the propaganda. The result is you. Moron.) But no. Morons like you object because of...wait for it....race! Moron.
But if you need to keep telling yourself you aren't a bigot, go right ahead, little boy.
You really really shouldn't be talking about name calling or brains there, buddy.
Everything you list has been the fault of conservatives. All of it.
Maybe, next time you can learn some facts before you embarrass yourself. OK?
Great, glad to hear it. Run along now. Beck has some marching orders for you. (Like he isn't backed by and using you for corporate America? LOL. Moron.)
Big EFFIN WOOP! There were ALMOST enough people at this lunatic demonstration to fill one-half of a stadium for a normal college football stadium. Really folks, we are talking about the extreme bleeding edge of the LUNATIC FRINGE. After all the coverage that Fox "News" gave this, this is all the pathetic lunatics they could bus in on paid convoys, this is really a pathetic showing.
If anyone noticed, there were FOUR MILLION + people demonstrating against George W. Bush's ignorant war policies in Washington DC alone. Pretty pathetic showing given all the network time Fox News gave Glenn Beck to promote this public display of ignorance.
There are 5 million comments on this article..
I don't know why everyone keeps calling America "Communist". Nothing has really changed since Obama took office except the closing of Gitmo. Now the one thing that IS communist about America is this Patriot act that the republicans passed. The majority of Americans want healthcare reform so the government is doing EXACTLY what Americans want. 60,000 people protesting tax hikes? The iraq war costs 3 times what health care reform will. Where were all the republican tax protesters then? It's all partisan brainwashed bull. Anyone with a brain knows it.
Topcat your math is ludicrous..
Did you watch the nutbags that were filmed there?
They werent packed in like other crowds.
Im betting they were lucky to have bused in from trailer parks maybe 40,000 ignorant low information voters.
So topcat you know the people that came from all around the country to show their fear of a half white President?
And yes it has happened before.
Bigger and better.
Guess you dont remember the anti war marches...
LOL you cons are stupid.
Pull out the OXYRUSH IV and get an education on the issues.
If you morons keep this up the rep party is finished.
The American Taliban rules the repube party.
haha more evidence that Liberals and conservatives have merely swapped places, remember all the conservatives saying the antiwar march numbers were "inflated"
:- )
To YOU LIE--Ain't that the truth?
To ANTHONY--Bravo! Well said!
And what's perplexing is that when Cindy Sheehan sat in the gallery during one of Bush's addresses to the Congress, she wore a tee shirt with the number of troops that had been killed to date--and for that she was arrested. Her child had been killed serving in an illegal war, but did any of these knuckledragging kool-aid drinkers show up in DC to protest THAT?
What's next? Will we be arguing about the number of white sheets hanging out in front of the Lincoln Memorial?
Everyone who is trying to make these people feel bad for believing that there were 2 million people should just stop. It's rude. After all, when you can't count to ten and have never left the rural trailer park before, it might as well be 2 million for all they know.
Besides, ABC isn't counting all of the protesters who got lost somewhere in West Virginia because Glenn Beck and Dick Armey weren't there to tell the where to go...
@Anthony your reply to theserf is spot on. People like theserf have short memories when it comes to what happened when their guy was President. theserf wrote:
"Unemployment up
Foreclosures up
Crime up
Trillions of dollars unaccounted for
Bankruptcys up
Homeless up
Dollar down"
That all started during the Bush administration. Oh, and remember the billions of dollars that somehow got lost in Iraq?
If the Bush administration had acknowledge that the economy was going south instead of trying to cover it up, so he could kick it down the road to the next president, the recession probably wouldn't have been as bad. http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/12492
When the MSM tried to say we were in a recession, all we got from Bush, and the right, was that we were a bunch of whiners. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11658.html
theserf wrote:"name calling thats all they got left......Calling a million people morons makes you a moron." Did you just do a little "name" calling yourself there, slick?
[...] The Raw Story » ABC fights back against Tea Party protest size … [...]
Some numnuts said "How would things be different under a Communist regime? Not much"
Oh PLEASE...for one thing they wouldn't be allowed to protest in the first place. The tanks would be rolling in with the National Guard behind them. Tiananmen square, much?
Secondly, they'd all have a JOB... something I doubt even half these people have at the moment.
And they'd all have access to HEALTH CARE. Oh the irony.
Not saying Communism would be better- it wouldn't be, but fer chrissakes at least know a few facts about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPud1TeubM&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Frhetorican.com%2F2009%2F09%2F12%2Ftime-lapse-aerial-video-of-912-protestors%2F&feature=player_embedded
That's not 10s of thousands that's hundreds of thousands. According to the park service [via usa today - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPud1TeubM&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Frhetorican.com%2F2009%2F09%2F12%2Ftime-lapse-aerial-video-of-912-protestors%2F&feature=player_embedded ] it takes over 900 thousand to fill the avenue between the Capitol and the Washington monument.
Sorry copy/paste error here's the link to usa today
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-19-crowd_N.htm
Anthony couldn't have said it better. The screamers created this mess and would love to rewrite history. It's not gonna happen. After the scum treated America like an ATM machine for 8 yrs. now they want to blame the clean up crew, for their malfeasance and ignorance.
You people crack me up.
"No, I tell you, there were MORE morons! MORE I tell you! Not a blessed one of us had any fucking idea what we were protesting, but we sure hate that madrassa-edcuated Kenyan terrorist sympathizer who wants to pull the plug on grandma. When Dick Armey calls, we jump!"
"Calling a million people morons makes you a moron."
It's reaffirmed in every poll that 25% of the country supports ultra right wing fascist ideology no matter how extremist, no matter how hypocritical, no matter how self-immolating, and that makes about 75 million morons.
I know, I know, it takes math to figure that out, and you think that if the Invisible Sky Daddy intended for you to have math skills, he'd have given you an abacus instead of an asshole.
Fortunately, 75% of us aren't morons, and we want a public health care option.
This just shows how many wingnuts there are in America. Crybabies, poor losers and racists. Real Americans watch football.
During the American Revolution wouldn't being conservative make you a Loyalist to the British Crown.
Republican right wing nut jobs aren't exactly known for their math skills. To them 60,000 and 1,000,000 look pretty much the same. How do you think they kept driving up the federal deficit and still claim to be fiscally "conservative"? This right wing fake "conservatism" isn't just a mental disease, it's a sign of ignorance and an unwillingness to face reality. Just take a look at Theserf listing off the problems that the Republicans have caused and trying to place that at the feet of a man who's only been in the White House for 7 months. Sad!!
It's fascinating how this rally got more attention and theoretical crowd size rally after rally after rally, in DC and abroad, to end the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Fascinating that I only heard about this a day or two beforehand, and the rallys against the occupation were pretty well announced for weeks.
Can someone please tell me again, why I need a permit to protest?
Oh come on, there was a lot more than that, I saw those pics..I know what a 50 to 70 thousand person crowd looks like and that was much bigger.
It is my understanding based upon interviews that those gathered were not just "republicans" who were beat in the election. It appears that conservatives, democrats, and independents were involved. As I talk with those in my circle of influence I find many, who were once Obama supporters, are just as disgusted as those who were not Obama supporters in the past. Does health care need to be fixed? Yes. Have other solutions been offered? Yes. But the rhetoric of those who think that the European model is what we should be looking at just push all the other suggestions aside and just say that there are no other ideas out there.
Furthermore, many of the people protesting are just as disgusted with republicans as they are of the democrats. Everything has gone out of control in DC and "We the People" are fed up. Because of this many our using there constitutional right to voice their disgust. You will always have wing nuts in any large movement but don't be guilty of throwing out the baby with the bath water. Listen to the issues and judge on the over all content, not the hyperbole's.
Remember the "Millon Man March...", there wasn't a million there, but no one corrected that. I imagine that using CIA spy technology and photos from orbit we could get a more accurate count, but who wants the truth?
YES, WE WANT FOR PROFIT HEALTHCARE!!! WE WANT OUR PREMIUMS GOING TO SHAREHOLDERS AND THE BOARD MEMBERS SALARIES AND OF COURSE BONUSES!!! How can a for profit health system look out for the patient and the doctor. All they care about is making that money not providing healthcare. WHY IS HEALTHCARE CALLED AN INDUSTRY OR WHY IS IT CONSIDERED A COMMODITY WHEN IT IS A LIFE OR DEATH SITUATION?????? TO REPUBLICANS, EVERYTHING IS FOR SALE AND ON THE STOCK MARKET!!!!How stupid can people possibly be. I would like to know how many of those 60,000 are or have kids going to public education, you know socialized education, or have parents on social security, medicare, who drive on tax funded roads and freeway's who have food and water inspected. Maybe these idiot republicans could tell me what happened when social security was privatized in england and chile 20 years ago. The system went bankrupt and they went back to government providing it. IF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS DO NOT WORK EFFECIENTLY ITS BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE RUNNING IT NOT THE SYSTEM ITSELF. REMEMBER WHEN BUSH PRIVATIZED A UNIT AT WALTER REID. WHAT HAPPENED WAS DISASTROUS WHERE SOLDIERS WERE NOT GETTING MEDICAL HELP. BUT THESE 60,000 PROTESTING IDIOTS HAD NO PROBLEM WITH BUSHCARE.
yopcat, you think 70,000 people protesting Obama's policies is a lot of Americans? That is .00023% of the population. That is about 3/4 of the number of people who attended the OSU/USC game in Columbus yesterday.
If you leftover has-beens don't like the state of America, I will tell you the same thing I was told for 8 years - move somewhere else.
First of all, you're asking people to count who never made it passed the 7th grade-and the media lies to the right, it's a deeply ingrained habit since the Bush years. Second of all, there WERE about 500,000 protesting Bush's war in Washington, D.C. 2006-the WaPo grudgingly said 350,000. I asked the cops...of course, this barely got coverage in the MSM. The Reich wing still gets to direct the narrative even though they aren't the majority, and I'm sick of that.
HEY TRIPPIN, STOP LISTENING TO MICHAEL SAVAGE AND O'REILLY!!! Obama is a cristian!! Anyways, why dont we debate since you have no argument to make of substance, so instead of attacking, please tell me why FOR PROFIT HEALTHCARE BENEFITS THE PATIENT AND DOCTOR? ALSO PLEASE TELL ME WHY YOU WERE NOT PROTESTING WHEN WE WERE PAYING FOR 2 WARS, GIVING THE LARGEST TAX BREAKS WHILE BORROWING MONEY FROM CHINA? CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHEN DID ALL THESE EXOTIC MORTGAGES GET SIGNED AND PROCESSED, OH AND CREDIT DEFAULT SWAPS, DERIVATIVES; WHICH YEAR, DURING BUSH PERHAPS???? NOW THEY ARE ALL COMING DUE SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE ARE ALL THE REPUB IDIOTS THAT ARE UPSET WITH WHAT WALL STREET AND BUSH AND COMPANY DID?? TRILLIONS TO THE BANKS!!! REMEBER PAULSON ALREADY SET UP THE FUNDING TO THE BANKS UNDER TARP. OBAMA JUST CONTINUED IT. IF CLINTON IS TO BLAME, WHICH HE MIGHT HAVE MADE MISTAKES TOO, BUT WHY WERE THESE EXOCTIC LOANS NOT GIVEN DURING THE 8 YEARS OF CLINTON ADMINISTRATION??? WHAT ABOUT KATRINA, NOW THAT WAS A REAL WINNER.
Theserf
Unemployment up-Bush
Foreclosures up-Bush
Crime up-Bush
Prisoners early release-Bush
Cali IOUs-Bush
Trillions of dollars unaccounted for-Bush
Bankruptcys up-Bush
Homeless up-Bush
Dollar down-Bush
Anything else?
HEY REPUB'S CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING:
Scalia breaks ranks, slams Bush officials on bank regulation
By Kevin G. Hall | McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON — In a rebuke of the Bush administration, the Supreme Court ruled Monday that a federal bank regulator erred in quashing efforts by New York state to combat the kind of predatory mortgage lending that triggered the nation's financial crisis.
ALSO
Pentagon: No Saddam-Al Qaeda Link
Meanwhile, Cheney Repeats Assertions Of Terror Group's Ties In Iraq
Font size Print E-mail Share 142 Comments By Sean Alfano
April 2007
(AP) Saddam Hussein's government did not cooperate with al Qaeda prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, the U.S. Defense Department said in a report based on interrogations of the deposed leader and two of his former aides.
also
Fake Iraq documents 'embarrassing' for U.S.
From David Ensor
CNN Washington Bureau
Friday, March 14, 2003 Posted: 10:43 PM EST (0343 GMT)
The finding that documents on an Iraqi uranium deal were most likely faked is proving to be an embarrassment to the United States. CNN's David Ensor reports. (March 14)
SPECIAL REPORT
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Intelligence documents that U.S. and British governments said were strong evidence that Iraq was developing nuclear weapons have been dismissed as forgeries by U.N. weapons inspectors.
The documents, given to International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei, indicated that Iraq might have tried to buy 500 tons of uranium from Niger, but the agency said they were "obvious" fakes.
these are just a very small percentage of BUSH /CHENEY CORRUPTIONS, I CAN PROVIDE ALOT MORE BUT THEN AGAIN, REPUBLICANS DON'T READ AND INFORM THEMSELVES, THEY JUST FOLLOW
It's too bad the names of everyone of those people, who were on Medicare or another Government assistance program, were not written down so we could delete them from those programs. Perhaps if they truly believe that govenment is too large they will voluntarily delete themselves from the programs and send the money back they have taken.
What a bunch of idiots.
When libs disrupt public forums, they are 'advocates'. When libs protest in the streets, they are good Americans. When they dissent, they are patriots. When a conservative does any of these things, he is an idiot. Nice.
I particularly like the new 'Reich Wing' label. If you can't win on argument, trot out the insults. Nice to see so many of you have no arguments.
Keep it up - we will see the truth in 2010. My guess is that America will be tired of the one-party, fascist machinations of Congress and the White House. Nationalize industry. Nationalize health care. Subsidize art projects that embrace the goals of the regime. Silence dissent with parliamentary tricks, media manipulation, and derision. Create an army of idle malcontents that are loyal to the Party and put them to work for you. Sound familiar?
Well all you racist rednecks who believe God put dinosaur bones in the ground 6,000 years ago just to fuck with us, and that the dictionary is a liberal propaganda tool, and children who listen to a black president will suddeny turn into communist zombies, and quit paying attention to the socialist school teachers in first grade, count like this...1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 , 8 , 9, 10 , 20 30 , 40 , 50 , 60 70 ,80, 90 100, 200, 300, 400, etc... its pretty easy to get to ` million.
I swear some of the comments here look just like the comments made about the war protests a few years ago. Did some of you move from WND to RAW after the election??
Most were employees of big Pharmaceutical & Health care providers bussed or driven in. Mostly from Virginia. ASTROTURF
"Mistakes Girls Make" (Reply #31) says, "I don't know why everyone keeps calling America 'Communist.'"
Curious, isn't it? When the Cold War ended, the extreme right didn't know who to blame the world's problems on. For awhile, there was the talk of a "New World Order," then 9/11 made it possible to blame everything on the swarthy camel jockeys, their evil religion, and their weak-kneed liberal enablers. The fact that the same wingnuts are now dipping back to the McCarthy era to create a pathetic commie/socialist bogyman---and laughably conflating socialism with fascism---shows a real desperation. It also shows an appalling ignorance concerning both politics and history.
I think it's great. When we anti-war protestors would march, the crowd was always underestimated and now the conservatives are complaining just like we used to. And if there is any justice in the world, the people in charge will listen to them just like they listened to anti-war, anti-torture contingent. The only difference is I bet the tea party people didn't have to listen to jeers of "you don't like it, leave" and "you're terrorists." Which they are and they should. Why is it OK for our taxes to go for war and killing innocents but not OK to take care of each other?
On about 3 days notice the supporters of health care reform were able to organize and turn out about 18 thousand people in Minneapolis. I was there, and it was clear that supporters of change were starting to get re-energized. After the election people got complacent, but the events of the last few months seem to have made people realize the election was only the beginning, not the end. Folks need to be in it for the long haul.
""Fortunately, 75% of us aren't morons, and we want a public health care option.""
False. I want SINGLE PAYER HEALTCARE like in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Canada, and everywhere else on this planet.
Of course we will not get it, unless you make bribing illegal. Without bribery, the government would actualy do, what is good for the country.
Therefore I'm leaving the United States and imigrate to Germany in about five and a half months from now.
Good bye third world America.
I am impressed at the lack of short-term memory on display by the little green lights at the tip of the right wing in this country.
Because it's true that unemployment, debt, homelessness, foreclosures, etc., are all up at this moment. Barack Obama's administration is now about 8 months old. Ergo, it must be his fault.
Typical right-wing thinking that it took only 8 months to bring this chaos when in reality it has taken about thirty years to destroy the regulatory systems that protected our economy against the wild fluctuations that were baked into the so-called "free-market" of the Gilded Age. What Theodore Roosevelt and his cousin Franklin knew all too well was how wealthy oligarchs manipulated the system to consolidate their wealth and power. What Reagan, Bushes I and II - and to a large extent, Bill Clinton - did was undo the roadblocks that were in place to stop them.
Hey Koshchei, you are right, there wasn't a million people at the Million Man watch...There were 2.1 million there!
Who cares if it WAS a million. The important thing is the depth of stupidity. And it's WAY deep. Terminal dumb asses totally suckered by the likes of the GOP and their
ass licking attack poodles (Fox, Limbaugh, etc). STFU, or go home and screw your sister, you freaking lamers.
There can be no mistaking the obvious:
The lion's share of the "tea party" movement's supporters are "poor white trash" unable to come to terms with prevailing socioeconomic paradigms and conditions, so requiring their resort to the dysfunctional as conceals their male chauvinist insecurities.
All of these weak brained simpletons are beginning to realize
how completely they have been had. Unfortunately they are still
under the influence of the Limbaughs, Hannities, O'Reillys and Michael
Weiners of the right wing propaganda machine. They need to find a scape
goat. How fortunate for them that there is a black democrat in the
White House. If McCain were president they'd have no other option
but to run around in circles biting their tails.
I noticed Yahoo News was also hyping it... just saying 'thousands'.
Lemmings are just lemmings whatever the size of their mass dive.
So many people wouldn't even be falling for this if they weren't being actively and consciously misled by the M$M.
conservatives and liberals, i've noticed both sides likes to call each other "Fascists" or "Commies" , well, i'll settle the argument right now.
conservatives = national socialists
Liberals = commies .
there, happy ? .
The one important fact the nutbaggers are over looking - they lost the f**king election.
patricia,
The real issue is not public or private health care. The real issue is people doing the correct action at the proper time. I believe both systems could work if everyone in those systems have high moral character.
It would show more intelligence on your part if you attacked the argument and not people by calling them idiots.
You bring up many points. Social Security would not have any funding problems if politicians did not use the money set aside for Social Security for other services. Your point of one of example of the Bush Administration having a private company provide health care does not mean that all plans for profit will not work. It would be unwise to ban all for-profit companies.
A for-profit company can donate money to organizations, and provide income to workers so that the workers can go out and buy services.
Health care is considered a commodity because to provide health there is a level of edcation and skill involved. Unfortunately are system of money exchange is base on a service being rendered. Your true question is this: where does money come from. If you go to parts of third world countries there is no health care at all. You must answer the question: why is this.
Whatever the numbers, the fact remains that regardless of their cluelessness they are still doing what Americans should do when they are unhappy with their leaders. They are exercising their right to be heard in the seat of government, and that's a very democratic thing. I commend them and hope that we on the left will do the same in far greater number.
Under state law, God is Kentucky's first line of defense against terrorism. Also, i heard that glenn beck raped and murdered a young girl in 1990.
What I think is that reading these hateful comments from the left really shows how afraid they are of the truth, and of those people that marched on Washington yesterday. Half the population in the United States didn't vote for Obama. What about them? You don't care about them because they aren't on your side. People on the left preach tolerance and openmindedness all the time but when it comes to middle America you think we're all evil and stupid country yokels who need your political alignment. Just because you have an opinion and a computer doesn't mean you know anything about the government.
wiseturtle
'Hey Koshchei, you are right, there wasn't a million people at the Million Man watch...There were 2.1 million there!'
Controversial at best.
According to Wikipedia:
Crowd size controversy
Due to the name of the event, the number of attendees was a primary measure of its success and estimating the crowd size, always a contentious issue, reached new heights in bitterness.[34] March organizers estimated the crowd size at between 1.5 and 2 million people and were shocked when the United States Park Police officially estimated the crowd size at 400,000. Farrakhan threatened to sue the National Park Service due to the controversial low estimate from the Park Police.
Three days after the march, Dr. Farouk El-Baz and a team of ten research associates and graduate students at the Center for Remote Sensing at Boston University released an estimate of 870,000 people with a margin of error of about 25 percent. They arrived at this figure by enlarging aerial photographs taken by the Park Service and counting crowd density.[35] They later revised that figure to 837,000 ±20% (669,600 to 1,004,400). This revision was made when the Park Service provided original 35mm negatives; the first count was made with scanned printed photographs.
The Park Service estimate was never retracted,[34] and other academics have supported its lower figure.[36]
After the Million Man March, the Park Police ceased making official crowd size estimates. Roger G. Kennedy, the Park Service director, said Congress had provided the "structure and canons" for counting people, but it had not demanded that the exercise actually be done. He contemplated informing Congress, "Thank you for telling us how to do it, but we won't be doing it."[35] In the 1997 appropriations bill for the Department of the Interior, Congress included language that prohibits the National Park Service from conducting crowd estimates in the District of Columbia. The legislation also states that if event organizers want crowd estimates, they should contract with an outside agency.[37]
you guys just keep arguing left/right.. nothing to see here.
if you aren't above the left/right paradigm then you're in serious trouble.
Iv seen more at a George Michael concert
Itz waycism itz. Datz awl it iz itz waycism.
Change your tampon pussy.
We are the new enemy. We have been for a long time. There is only one party in DC, and none of us are invited.
When one side goes too far, power moves to the other, who goes further. . . . consistently bumping us further down the road from our present day feudal/fascist hybrid to deeper ruin. If the end result of either party is the same, there is NO measurable difference.
For the MSM, there is money in maintaining and even promoting this illusion. You just HAVE to tune in to see what the 'other' side is doing. . . . it's like 'reality-TV', nothing more. This isn't a kickball game. There aren't two opposing sides. WE are being screwed by both sides of the DC party. WE have been sold out. The cure is not in or of Congress, nor in the Executive. Follow the money.
I commend free of expression and the right to assembly by the right. I also commend every one that noticed the whiteness of the crowd, the lack of blacks, asians, latins. I also commend the right of citizens speaking their heart and minds with the vile signs that teabaggers carried, it's their God given right to be hateful. I also commend the corporate organizations efforts involved in the coordination, and busing in of the teabaggers. Let me lay one rumor to rest, contrary to a vicious rumor; these citizens were not patients on a weekend pass bused in from mental institutions; nor were they from a data sorted list of patients on pychotropic medications and/or mood altering prescriptions. These rumors serve no purpose. They were also not bused in white supremist organizations disguised as mainstream organizations; there is no proof of this. Nor were they bused in Christian organizations arranged through religious institutions and organization given heafty donations by corporate interests; that also is yet to be proven. Nor is it true that the count of approx 30, 000 to 60, 000 participants that turned in to 1 to 2 million is a lie, it's probably just one of many delusions noted from the teabaggers.
0
@ TopCat
"Unfortunately, we may never know how many local people actually joined in the protest. But does it really matter? After 8 months in office, Obama has pissed off so many people, that (at least) 60,000 came from across the country to protest his policies. That has quite simply never happened before."
LMFAO. First of all, you are completely ignorant. At least 60K people gathering together to protest a policy has never happened before? Holy cow. I can't believe you actually said that. 300-400K people protested the Iraq War in New York in February of 2003. THREE MILLION people protested the same war in Rome. THREE MILLION. You wouldn't remember that though would you?
Second of all, let's be honest both with each other and ourselves. Obama was simply the catalyst, not the cause of their anger. To say otherwise is disingenuous. These people were already MIGHTY pissed off about their lives and Obama's election was the end of the line for them -- many of them mislead into believing falsehoods of fantastic proportions.
Seriously, TopCat. Learn something.
The real story is that Americans are waking up to the real issues affecting America.
1.) The not really Federal "federal reserve" legalized counterfeiting system which is about to devastate the economy of the US.
2.) That "Change" in faces in the White House means more war, more spending, and less freedom.
3.) That illusion of left versus right party politics is left for those who are too blind to see what is happening before their very eyes.
So we have a few hundred thousand idiots that blame "Obama" for what 30 years of Reaganomics failure has done to destroy America.
They are so stupid they are blaming everyone but Goldman Sachs, and corporate control of government for their problems. These fools haven't got a clue as to what is really happening, the top 1% taking their 50% off the top, and leaving us, with our partisan battles to fight over what they leave.
Goldman Sachs 30,000 employees "averaged" $700,000 a year in wages. Anyone understand what that means? The pigs stealing from us at every turn.
There are some good comments above. Keep it up.
http://www.RepublicansAreADisease.com
Trash will always collect against the curb...........just call the street sweepers.
The verdict is in.
Closing The Book On The Bush Legacy
Thursday's annual Census Bureau report on income, poverty and access to health care-the Bureau's principal report card on the well-being of average Americans-closes the books on the economic record of George W. Bush.
It's not a record many Republicans are likely to point to with pride.
...Consider first the median income. When Bill Clinton left office after 2000, the median income-the income line around which half of households come in above, and half fall below-stood at $52,500 (measured in inflation-adjusted 2008 dollars). When Bush left office after 2008, the median income had fallen to $50,303. That's a decline of 4.2 per cent.
That leaves Bush with the dubious distinction of becoming the only president in recent history to preside over an income decline through two presidential terms, notes Lawrence Mishel, president of the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute. The median household income increased during the two terms of Clinton (by 14 per cent, as we'll see in more detail below), Ronald Reagan (8.1 per cent), and Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford (3.9 per cent). As Mishel notes, although the global recession decidedly deepened the hole-the percentage decline in the median income from 2007 to 2008 is the largest single year fall on record-average families were already worse off in 2007 than they were in 2000, a remarkable result through an entire business expansion. "What is phenomenal about the years under Bush is that through the entire business cycle from 2000 through 2007, even before this recession...working families were worse off at the end of the recovery, in the best of times during that period, than they were in 2000 before he took office," Mishel says.
Bush's record on poverty is equally bleak. When Clinton left office in 2000, the Census counted almost 31.6 million Americans living in poverty. When Bush left office in 2008, the number of poor Americans had jumped to 39.8 million (the largest number in absolute terms since 1960.) Under Bush, the number of people in poverty increased by over 8.2 million, or 26.1 per cent. Over two-thirds of that increase occurred before the economic collapse of 2008.
The trends were comparably daunting for children in poverty. When Clinton left office nearly 11.6 million children lived in poverty, according to the Census. When Bush left office that number had swelled to just under 14.1 million, an increase of more than 21 per cent.
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/closing_the_book_on_the_bush_legacy.php
Wake up, sheeple-- IT'S THE INFORMATION! As long as MSM continues to deliver news as entertainment, we must always question what we hear/see, especially since the Fixed Noise channel and other news outlets are owned by only a few corporation$, (thanks to Clinton's deregulation of the media).
Keep them misinformed, fearful and angry. And keep repeating the lies over and over and over.
How else could otherwise rational, reasonably sane human beings label someone as being a Nazi AND a Communist?
I was there. I am a career firefighter paramedic in northern VA. First off, no disrespect to my DC bretheren, but firefighters do not estimate sizes of crowds....we just are not trained for it. Our job encompasses other things that may be impacted by crowds, but that isn't our forte. Second, when I was leaving I passed a police officer (either capital or park police) who was there doing crowd control. He stated that according to their count the crowd was 1.5 million and counting. I don't know if crowd estimation is part of their training or not. It really doesn't matter however. Come 2010, the proof will be in the voting.
Personally, to my untrained eye, there was at least 1 million there. This to me looks like the three main network types (abc, cbs, and nbc) and CNN trying as hard as they can to deny what everyone saw. Fox isn't picking up the ball either; probably because they are afraid of being accused as partisan again (as if the others are not in the tank for the other side anyway)
By the way...I did not see one Nazi, one KKK, or one white power sign, shirt or logo ANYWHERE in the crowd. Of course I was only surrounded by a scant 150,000 in my area alone, so I can't speak for the whole crowd.
Anyway, best wishes to everyone. Just remember, as stupid as it was for the republicans to ignore warnings for the past 8 years, it is equally stupid and arrogant for this administration and majority to ignore what is right infront of their faces....even if in their elietest minds they cannot belive any of us serfs would possibly hold a different opinion than them
The time for debate is FAR from over.
Sincerely
William Dwyer
Winchester, VA
What I find sad about these protesters is that most of those whom I've heard speaking (and posting) have a distorted and cherry-picked view of history. The best example of this is the so-called "Strict Constitutionalist" meme. This claim is ridiculous given that we have just emerged from of one of the more flagrant Anti-Constitutional periods in recent history with the aggressive effort to expand the unilateral power of the Executive branch under Bush (including the bizzare claim by Cheney that the VP is not a member of the Executive) as well as the politicalization of the Justice Department through the attorney firings. Yet these folks are suddenly in the streets because, by proposing a new health care program, THIS administration represents a threat to our Constitution? These are not "Patriots" as they so often choose to refer to themselves, but are merely "partisans" who, lacking the power of self-reflection that would help them to understand why they lost so badly in the last election cycle, continue the same pattern of distorting facts and replacing constructive dialog with emotionalism and histrionics. That they are also once again voting against their own interests by supporting a position that serves to make the richest 5 percent even richer is really the saddest part of this little drama.
Who cares how many of them were there. Even if it was 1.5 million there are still more of us than them. The only problem is that we are too quite. We are letting the crazies dominate the debate. Additionally, how many people of color were at this so called rally? I would hazard a guess that the number is very very low. This is racism in action America. These people so hate the President (read Black Man) that they will latch onto anything negative said about him. Even if the diatribe is completely ridiculous. Racism does this to a person, it makes them completely irrational and hate filled. I didn't like Bush but the Left would have been crucified had they called him a Liar during a speech. The double standard is glaring. If you disagree fine. But, you need to ask yourself why the Right didn't think that Bush was impinging on their rights when he listened to their phone calls without a warrant. Simple, Bush is a white guy and no white guy would want to hurt them, right? But, a black guy, well everyone knows what that means. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!
All I know is that I have never seen so many stupid people and blatant racists in one place before.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jim Dixon, M. Murray Threipland, Sons of Liberty, Cliff Weathers and others. Cliff Weathers said: ABC News confirms #teaparty numbers in DC greatly exaggerated. http://ping.fm/DQlHr #p2 #tlot #tcot [...]
I teach my debate students that when your opponent's principal arguments are insults, you are in good shape. They have nothing of merit to argue with. Examples? But of course.
"LMFAO. First of all, you are completely ignorant." Really? I am amazed that you can be so presumptuous. I hold three degrees, am well-educated, well-read, and make a point of staying current on issues. I am a Conservative. But I am well-educated. How can this be? Perhaps it your intent is to consider the meaning of 'ignorant' to be 'un-indoctrinated'. Of course you throw out the insult with absolutely no argument to substantiate the claim. How typical.
"that's still a lot of nuts....." Be careful. Nuts are protected by the Democratic hate crimes bill. Pretty much every abberent personality type is protected, so the liberal should be safe. Sorry - I wanted to have some fun too. Seriously, once again - insult without substance. Useless comment, but I am sure you felt all-powerful when you made it.
"Release the hounds.
Run, scumbags, run."
Something that those sheriffs in Alabama would have said during the Civil Rights marches, no? But then, Democrats are used to using the dogs. Remember, it has been the Republican Party and Conservative values that have fueled the Civil Rights movement. The Democratic party was the party of segregation, the party of Jim Crow. When the Republicans rammed the Civil Rights Act through, Johnson brilliantly bought the black vote by launching the Great Society. Of course, 50 years later, we have more poor, not less - but at least they vote democratic!
"million or more lunatics" Again - when you have nothing to say, call people names.
"these people, sigh. The whole thing is really.... sad." American citizens, protesting a government that they feel is not responsive to the the will of the People - sad? That is the language of the Communist Party apparatchik. That is the party of the Nationalist Socialist Party loyalist. Dissent is American. After all, when a group of anti-war protestors disrupted a forum on the Iraqi War, Nancy Pelosi applauded them for being advocates for what they believed in. I agree with her - at least on this issue. Americans have the right to disagree with the government. And it's not like Obama has a mandate. The last landslide president was Reagan...and I am sure that must STILL be killing some of you commies out there.
"people to count who never made it passed the 7th grade." Yet another ignorant, hateful remark. I would wager that the event attracted quite the spectrum of American citizens. And let's look at your statement - America was built by people who never made it past the 7th grade! All of you smarmy, smug, pseudo-intelligentsia elitists have had the luxury of a public education - an education paid for by taxpayers. The same people you despise. My father never made it to the 8th grade. He became a master tradesman, runs his own business, owns a nice house, raised three children who all went to college....that USED to be the American Dream. With you brats, it's a badge of shame. For shame.
"The American Taliban rules the repube party." And the Spirits of Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Goering, Hitler, Napoleon, and Robespierre rule the Democratic Party in power. Not to mention our president's friends - the Castros, Chavez, the King of Saudi Arabia (to whom he has made proper submission), and a slew of petty socialist dictators.
Bring something to the table besides the name-calling and insults. Who knows, you might actually say something useful.....greater miracles have happened, you know.
The democrats are TERRIFIED of the size of this protest. The republicans are just as TERRIFIED of the size of these protests.. The dems are openly against the dissent, the repubs are desperately trying to co-opt the dissent(to no avail).
Reality will no longer be denied. The pool of greater fools is dropping noticeably. These protesters are neither left or right, they are what the government truly fear: CONSTITUTIONALISTS!!! They DEMAND the restoration of the REPUBLIC, and will settle for NOTHING LESS.
These protests WILL grow, these voices WILL get louder. MORE high powered assault rifles will be slung across MORE Liberty demanding backs.
The tyranny of incompetence has shoveled too many blivets in too short of a time lately, now nobody can overlook the stench of collectivist FAILURE.
We know who is trying to hijack this movement. We give them NO play. Liberty is NOT a walk you can fake, hence why we see through the glenn becks and other media trash.
You collectivist scumbags went too far, you've awoken the AMERICAN PEOPLE, and we demand our LIBERTY. We will settle for NOTHING LESS.
Americans of all backgrounds, beliefs, colors and creed DEMAND THEIR LIBERTY!!!
We've been here the whole time, we never went away. We screamed "LIAR" at every president since(and including) lincolin. We never wanted a single war since 1812. We rioted in New York against the draft during the civil war, we never cared for the rich mans war and a poor mans fight. We never had any love for you "300 dollar men", or the policies that support you scumbags. We yelled "LIAR" every time you collectivist trash opened your mouths, because lies are your native tongue.
The last 30 YEARS in particular has been out of control, the tyranny of incompetence has been growing like unchecked crab grass across our Liberty and prosperity. We the People have decided we've had ENOUGH.
We've had enough of you worthless collectivists. We are taking our country back.
There's not a damned thing you can do about it.
Baaa! BAAAAA! Little sheeple, have you any meat to pay the wolves?
[...] political pressures from the Obama administration on ABC News Network to back off its initial quote that two million conservative Americans marched [...]
What a sad day. Conservative Americans are finally waking up to how evil the American power structure is and their liberal brethren, instead of welcoming the possibility of a truly unified people's movement against the power elite, would rather poke fun at the working class values and rural folkways of the other side. The Left has chosen suicide over unity just in order to have a temporary thrill of saying "I told you so."
No wonder no real change ever happens. The power elite have blinded you fools with the oldest trick in their book: divide and conquer.
Now go back to your redneck jokes, hope you feel good about pissing on the working class you claim to love.
DanielM
All very good points. Thanks.
Witnessing Republicans citing the Constitution after Dick Bush defiled it is almost too much to bear. Even worse is Glenn Beck claiming the mantle of Thomas Paine.
Jay
'...The Left has chosen suicide over unity just in order to have a temporary thrill of saying "I told you so.'
Yeah sure thing, it's the intransigent left. The one that gets branded communists and America-haters by you real Americans.
Damn those leftie haters and their death panels.
While we had all those assholes corralled on Pennsylvania Ave, why didn't our totalitarian fascist President use the opportunity to annihilate them all so we could all get on with our lives? If I was a totalitarian dictator, I would have just rolled a bunch of tanks up the road and blown them all to hell. These shitheads want civil war? let's give it to them. We're in power and we control the military. Time to take out the right wing for good.
Hey William Dwyer,
Next time open your eyes a little wider because there are photos of the swastikas. I saw plenty of extreme right wing signs in the garbage by Capitol South Metro station. I even spoke to a few of the protesters and they are all completely incoherent, jumbling myths with actions that were undertaken by the previous administration and laying all the blame at the feet of Obama. I personally don't agree with much of what he's doing, he's way too neoliberal for me, but I feel he must be defended against the right wing minority who want a return of to the disastrous Republican years.
"The ordinary citizens of the USSA are tired as hell of NOT seeing any leadership"
First, you don't speak for "ordinary Americans" and you certainly don't speak for me, so I recommend just speaking for yourself. Second, if you have any respect for this country at all, please at least spell the acronym correctly. Third, if you want to see leadership, you have to stop shouting long enough to do some listening. So let's try that, shall we?
When truth is expendable, all one has left is lies...which pretty much describes conservatives in general and the Republican Party in particular.
"We're in power and we control the military. Time to take out the right wing for good."
I wouldn't put that to the test, actually. Have you ever worn a uniform? To use the military to put down a legal civil protest is ...Unconstitutional. We haven't gotten there yet - and we won't Le Fabe.
It's exactly that kind of thinking that will destroy this socialist perversion of the Democratic party next year. So I encourage you to continue to ridicule the working American. Continue to deride the small business owner. Hammer away at people of Faith. Have fun while you can. Party till the last minute. We will throw you out and clean up your mess. We did it after Carter. We will do it after Obama.
From all the different respones I guess it is time to finally get around to building my bomb shelter. Looks like the shit will fall.
People like o'reilly,beck and hannity,that advocate the over throw of the country,are the ones we need to fear.
But you have to see them for who they are,o'reilly=sex predater, beck=a drunken lush and hannity=anti-catholic.
All of them are anti-american.They are the real TERRORIST's.
You only have to look at the people,that believe the filth that comes out of their mouth,(I call it their asshole),these are the people that believe the country "OWES" them.
In my "opinion",repugnents should be shot on site and their remains,given to hogs for food!Because that is all they are worth.
John said:
"Remember, it has been the Republican Party and Conservative values that have fueled the Civil Rights movement. The Democratic party was the party of segregation, the party of Jim Crow. When the Republicans rammed the Civil Rights Act through, Johnson brilliantly bought the black vote by launching the Great Society..."
Below you will find the actual voting breakdown - by party affiliation - for the Civil Rights Act of 1964:
House of Representatives:
Democrats for: 152
Democrats against: 96
Republicans for: 138
Republicans against: 34
Senate:
Democrats for: 46
Democrats against: 21
Republicans for: 27
Republicans against: 6
The southern-fried Dixiecrats jumped ship immediately after President Johnson signed the Act into law. I believe his quote before he signed was, "We just lost the South."
Johnson knew exactly what he was doing, and he did it anyway. The black vote was never going to give Dems an electoral advantage over the "solid South" and still Johnson did what was right and necessary.
If you really do have students, I feel very sorry for them. Their teacher may know debate, but he knows fuck all about recent American history.
[...] 912 organizers tried to say it was much larger but that made no sense. Pictures of the people of the 912 [...]
John:
Even though Dems did vote clearly in favor of the Act, I actually pasted the wrong info. Here's what was supposed to be up there:
Southern Senators, Democrats:
For - 1
Against - 21
Southern Senators, Republicans:
For - 0
Against - 1
Southern House Democrats:
For - 7
Against - 87
Southern House Republicans
For - 0
Against - 10
Among the non-southern states, Democrats voted 145-9 in favor of the bill (94%). The Southern Democrats were then wooed by Nixon during the 1968 campaign season using his infamous "Southern Strategy." In 1980 that shining light of civil rights, Ronnie Reagan, announced his candidacy with a states-rights themed speech in Philadelphia, MS. You might remember that as the place where three civil rights workers were brutally murdered by the Klan. Sensitive guys, those Republicans.
So whatever happened to those Dixiecrats that Johnson lost in 1964? They soon found their way to the GOP where they remain today, only now we call them "Teabaggers."
[...] anywhere near the 1.5 million that the president of the organizers, Matt Kibbe, attributed to ABC. The echo chamber reproduced and the story spread, highlighting one of the big problems of [...]
The simple fact is that most if the recent anger toward Obama came up
after he proposed health care reform. Obama is trying to help people not demean them. Why is there so much suspicion these days? Why are we so quick to think that our neighbors want to destroy or kill us? Obama and the Dems don't want to kill you. They wold be killing themselves if that were true. Conservatives, please think ( Liberals too). We are all Americans and we all want to be safe and happy. If you think that your political opponent wants to hurt you then I propose that there is too much paranoia in your mind. Remember both Conservatives and Liberals are Patriots.
Sorry teabaggers, late is not better than never.
After the steaming ruin of a nation left after decades of conservative, neo-liberal, and neo-conservative rule, your whining is years too late.
The country must be rebuilt over decades now. That involves liberal leadership and social policies to build up the middle class again so just putting food on the table doesn't distract the majority from advocating for better media and more representative democracy and an end to foreign military adventures. Like the nation eventually did, through decades of liberal leadership and policies that culminated in 60s. The people you are marching for were at their lowest in the 60s. They had to resort to violence then. And they ended up spending decades and billions on propaganda and think-tanks and media to manipulate those easily manipulated - like you.
This isn't going to come from Obama and the "centrist" conservative or corporate Democrats. The leaders who label themselves as progressives need to be supported and expanded in number. You are protesting the wrong people. And spare me the "nothing to do with racism" nonsense. If you had any principals at all you would have been protesting Reagan - Bush II. But you didn't. You saved it all for Palin rallies to shout "fascist" and "communist" and "terrorist" and then completely lost all reason when the nation elected the first black man. If you wanted to show you actually gave a damn about your country you would have been in the streets a long time ago. You should be picketing Beck and Limbaugh and Hannity and the rest. Are you so stupid as to actually believe they are for democracy? And the middle class? And not just the latest most extreme mouthpieces for corporate rule? Morons.
British and German papers said up to 2 million people and got their numbers from the DHS. The DHS is trained to estimate numbers for threat assessment and I'm sure that with all the money they get they could at least count well.
As far as i 495 being stopped and the metro skipping stations that happens every day in DC There are 9 million people at least in the dc-bmore area. That being said anyone who voted for either of the bushes who is now coplaining about overspending or the erosion of our constitutional rights has no ground to stand on. I got involved in politics after the reagan / bush senior years as a perot supporter, he was a one issue candidate for balancing the budget. THE REPUB LIC ANS ARE THE CHIEF ARCHITECTS OF OUR NATIONAL DEBT
yes a lot of nuts yet in Jan. 2003 when Republicans passed a Bill allowing immigrants to get free Health Care not one of those protesters said a word. Yes many forget even Rep. Joe Wilson was proud as he voted for the Bill but now doesn't want all Americans to have the same Health Care he voted for immigrants to have. Now Republicans are against President Obama letting natural born American citizens have the same rights that the Bush Administration gave immigrants. Who stupid is that? Everyone knows Rep. Wilson was paid by the Insurance Company for his performance and as he said he would do it again ( for the money). Manners and Respect aren't used anymore in the United States as the young people what how it's done now. Other countries use to follow the USA as an example but no longer. When a country is in chaos it can destroy itself. With the hateful signs being carried by the Protesters we now don't have to guess who's behind the hooded robes now people are openly racist and seem to be proud of it. I wonder how the minority soldiers who serve the USA feel or the Families who lost a love one in this illegal War. Just think a soldier is told it is an honor to serve the United States of America and protect the American people, while they see they really mean less then an animal.
Everyone who says that the police firefighters or national park people made estimates are LIARS, all fo them have stopped making estimates when Bush took office exactly becasue fo this!
This is NOT about right vs. left.
This is about Liberty vs. tyranny.
Any attempt to spin or alter the debate into anything else is an outright lie.
Nobody out here gives a damn weather it's republican or democrat. What we know is what we live. Washington DC, media, and these obvious paid shrills here in this comments section(from BOTH parties.) are so out of touch with life in America that they can't see how stupid they look to the rest of us who have our eyes open.
WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR IDIOTIC AGENDAS ANYMORE.
WE'VE HAD IT WITH YOUR RICH MANS WARS, POOR MANS FIGHTS.
WE ARE SICK OF YOUR WEALTH DISTRIBUTION SCHEMES.
WE ARE FIGHTING MAD OVER TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.
(k street, not main street calls the shots, even an idiot can see that.)
WE ARE SICK OF THE FED RESERVE. WE WANT OUR HONEST MONEY BACK.
WE ARE SICK OF THE DRUG WAR.
WE WILL TOLERATE NO MORE MOVES TO DISARM THE CITIZENRY.
GAY MARRIAGE IS NOT AN ISSUE. WE DON'T MIND IF THEY WANT TO KNOW THE JOYS AND MISERIES OF GETTING THE GOVERNMENT INVOLVED IN THEIR RELATIONSHIPS.
ABORTION SHOULD BE LEGAL, BUT NOT FUNDED BY OUR TAX DOLLARS.
WE DEMAND JUSTICE FOR ALL, DICK AND BUSH AND A FEW OF THEIR SUBORDINATES SHOULD FACE JUSTICE.
EVERYBODY, ON ALL SIDES NEEDS TO QUIT PLAYING THE RACE CARD. WE WANT ALL TO BE EQUAL UNDER LAW, NOT BY LAW.
WE DEMAND CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OF THOSE WHO HIRE ILLEGAL ALIENS.
WE DEMAND AN END TO OUR CURRENT POLICE STATE.
More than anything, above all: WE DEMAND THE RESTORATION OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. WE DEMAND THE BILL OF RIGHTS BE RESTORED AS THE HIGHEST LAW OF THE LAND, AND ALL LAWS REPUGNANT TO THE BILL OF RIGHTS STRUCK DOWN(damned near all laws after the 14th amendment.).
This is NOT about right or left. This is about collectivism vs. Individualism. We demand LIBERTY, and will accept no substitutes.
Baaa! BAAAAAA! Little sheeple, have you any meat to pay the wolves?
Theserf has a list;
Unemployment up
Foreclosures up
Crime up
Prisoners early release
Cali IOUs
Trillions of dollars unaccounted for
Bankruptcys up
Homeless up
Dollar down
I worked for the same company for 31 years - from August of 1977 to January 8th of 2009. Then the Bush economic mess (Clinton helped of course) finally got to me and I was "retired". As a result I got to sit home and watch Obama's inaugural instead of being at work.
So now it's all Obama's fault that he couldn't reverse 8 years of Republican screw ups (plus 8 years of Clinton's "Republican Light" administration) in 8 months.
So John, you say you are "edumicated" or summthin? What was your degree in? Retardation? Blindness? Hypocrisy? Ignorance? Racism? Did you attend (sic) Liberty University of something? How old is the Earth John? Now there's a good one.
You watch Bush urinate all over our constitution, and say nothing, but when a Black Man takes the oath of office, you have a cow. A "trillion man march" or something.
So this march proves one thing. There are a bunch of angry right wing zombies that are all pissed off that America chose to go in a different direction last November. Their ideology of fear, hate, lies, greed, Christo-Fascism, and propaganda was kicked to the curb big time.
Waaaaaaahhhhhhh is all this march was about. Deal with it. We had to deal with 8 years of the retarded chimp.
You, and your lunatic hypocrite friends make real Americans, you know, us reality based folks, sick to our stomachs. Go back to your caves and watch more Fox Lies, and turn up Rush. Fill your empty head with more lies, and propaganda. I bet you are allergic to the truth any way. In fact I saw Hannity say we really did find WMD's in Iraq!! I watched him say it. Maybe he better tell "W"....
I must admit, I do have a problem with Obama though. He has not had the criminals that have done so much damage to America the last 8 years arrested yet....
http://www.RepublicansAreADisease.com
Spiffarino
Thanks for the stats. Like 'facts', and 'truth', there is history...and then there is 'history'.
Perhaps John is a 'history' teacher.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thank you!
RYAN
"British and German papers said up to 2 million people and got their numbers from the DHS. The DHS is trained to estimate numbers for threat assessment and I'm sure that with all the money they get they could at least count well."
Not at all, from what I can see
No British paper that I have found has made any such claim.
Guardian: Tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets of Washington at the weekend in the largest manifestation yet of the angry anti-Obama sentiment being whipped up among rightwing Republicans.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/13/barack-obama-denounced-washington-march
BBC News: Tens of thousands of people have marched from the White House to Capitol Hill in Washington to protest against Barack Obama's healthcare reforms.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8252939.stm
Sky News: Tens of thousands of people have taken part in a protest against Barack Obama's plans to reform healthcare in the US.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Barack-Obama-Healthcare-Plans-Thousands-Protest-Against-Reforms-In-Washington-DC/Article/200909215380622?lpos=World_News_First_World_News_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15380622_Barack_Obama_Healthcare_Plans%3A_Thousands_Protest_Against_Reforms_In_Washington_DC
Times Online: Tens of thousands of protesters converged on Washington in the largest anti-Obama rally since he took office.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6832953.ece
I see no stories in Der Speigel
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/
The place was packed, look at the aerial shots, Penn Ave all the way to the Capital Mall. Yes due to estimates there where close to a Million people there, I'd guess around 700k. This is not Repub vs Dem, this is the people against the Tyranny of despotic government. Obama has not only embraced the Bush Doctrine, he is expanding it. Wiretapping, the War, enslaving the people to the International Banks, etc.
Stop making excuses for this Puppet, he's even worse than Bush.
Wow, these NeoCOMMs are trying sooo hard to discredit the capitalists who attended the 912 March on DC. I know, it must be very hard for you to wrap your narrow minds areound the fact that there are even a few people who will go to great lengths to stop Socialism. Now, just so we can skip to the chase... I've been through all of the ancillary steps arguing with NeoCOMMs about their agenda. It usually goes something like this (shortened version):
ME: Obama is a Socialist...
NeoCOMM: You're paranoid, ridicule... ridicule... insult...how do you come to that?
ME: Read the agenda of the DSA (Democratic Socialist Party of America) & compare it to the Progressive agenda, they're identical
NeoCOMM: (total capitulation) So... what good is capitalism, why not try Socialism, capitalism is evil... big oil... big business, CEO this, we need social justice, bad insurance co.s
On Saturday, over 1 million people gathered in DC and across the Country in 250 cities to awaken the independent and the old School Democrats. To let them know that the Socialists from 40 years ago never went away, in fact, they hijacked the Democrat Party. Put down the remote control and get in their face. Real Democrats would never submit to this brand of Socialism that the progressives are pushing if they were politically aware and understood the friendly watered down language describing their agenda at it's core is more reflective of Cuba (which NeoCOMMs all seem to love so much) than it is America.
We understand why you have to try so very very hard to discredit this movement... you need to keep people ignorant as to what it actually is. You're agenda will not survive without gaining a foothold. You need to keep them ignorant as long as you can to gain that foothold. Sorry NeoCOMMs, Americans aren't as dumb as you paint them all out to be.
If progressives and liberals want health care they better get off the couch and march. Unless 1 million+ show up in DC to demand the public option, it isn't going to happen. You have to give credit to the lunatics where credit is due, they get out at the drop of hat and make a lot of noise. If only we can manage to do the same. No noise, no meaningful health care reform. Simple.
Can we just admit that the Civil War never ended and find a practical solution? I'd suggest we break the country in 2, let the crazies have their beloved South with their Insurance Masters and be done with it. This way, they can worship Joe Wilson and his "Son's of the Confederacy" movement. Give everyone who wants, the opportunity to migrate. You want the Winnuttia that was represented by the 9/12 folks? Move to the South. Believe in logic and want to get away from them? Well there's bound to be a house or two in the North that was given up by folks who refused to live under a President Obama and a "Public Option".
We'll subtract a few stars from Old Glory and they can go back to the "Stars and Bars" and live under a President Newt in their Nation's Capital of Montgomery Alabama.
The funniest part about Glen Beck organizing this movement against healthcare reform is that when he was on CNN 16 weeks ago he did a report on HOW BAD THE AMERICAN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS!!! What a douche. Reference:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation
So sad seeing all of these comments... I guess you people cant comprehend anything unless it is Republican or Democrat. America will be screwed time and time again if you people dont grow up and stop putting your faith in political parties. Stand for issues, not parties. And also watch the videos, there are probably around a million at the march. Not saying all of these people know what they are mad about, but many do. Seriously, the logic behind your thoughts seems to be Bush was bad (which he was), so lets put all our faith in the democrats and be blind while we get our asses fucked!!! Obama has done nothing he has promised. Gitmo is closed, but only in name.... we still have secret prisons all over the damned world. We are all still being spied on. Don't you asses get it? Bush was owned by the same bankers who are controlling Obama. Bush was there to lower expectations, and i guess it worked bc you morons are eating the shit obama spews like it is candy. Grow Up! Seriously! I beg you!
[...] so willingly to describe the President. Some efforts are being made by popular media – such as ABC News, Keith Olbermann, The Daily Show, and The Colbert Report – to quell such willful [...]
No, the paid "SHRILLS" as you put it are the ones who spoke at this circus. And who do you think the $pon$or$ of this puppet show were? The ones who stand to lose the most when the health care reform bill becomes law, that's who. The citizens who showed up have been conned into thinking it's about THEIR needs. Racism, sexism, other-ism and ANY isms have always been sold or used by those HOLDING the most to those STRUGGLING the most, disguised (or not) in any number of ways. But the real motivations aren't ideological; they're based on the economics of greed.
And the worst crime is keeping people oppressed by misinforming them, scaring them, and then convincing them you've got their best interest at heart.
Also, if our tax dollars will be paying for health care, then guess what? Our tax dollars will be paying for abortions, because like it or not, abortions are part of health care.
This is the 21st century, man, and NOBODY has the right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body. Abortion is a private matter to be decided upon by the person who's carrying a pregnancy ONLY. It's nobody else's business. Sorry to all you control freaks, but that's the way our biology is set up. As long as the unborn is still dependent on a woman's body for life, that's private domain (her body), and it's her decision. You got your laws off a woman's body in the early 70's. It's time to get your RELIGION off a woman's body as well.
You want to restore the constitution to the way it was 100 years ago?
Get a clue.
My family and I were at the rally in Washington and were forced to leave early by the sure force of numbers. We didn’t know it then but we were lucky enough to get inside the Capital Court Yard. We spoke with the security police at noon tine and they told me that at that time they estimated about 1.2 Million and that there were more still coming. By 2pm one of the speakers said that they were backed up so far they blocked off the freeway and shutdown that part of DC.
Any news paper, station, etc. where you get your news that plays this down, when it was one of DC largest demonstrations of all times, probably didn’t tell you 2 months ago about Vanjones and all the other radicals the president has placed as czars/advisors. They are the same media that will show the signs that were distasteful, but were way less than 1% of the thousands signs being held that day. Please join me and my family in writing letters to these media outlets telling them why you are canceling their news papers and stop watching their stations.
That’s real power, which is why journalism is dead and the ratings of these biased news organizations are sinking fast!
Note: The healthcare (HC) debate shouldn’t focus just on what we do not like about the democratic views/versions, but have answers for the real problems; high cost of premiums and preexisting conditions. The high cost of premiums has some real easy fixes and should be able to be written in a few pages not 1100; (1) do not allow any taxing of health care. I live in NY and our State Government says there looking for ways to lower HC, but taxes it 20%, that cost just gets handed down to the consumer, it always does. (2) Real tort reform, the money these doctors spend in malpractice insurance is ridicules’, sure they need to be able to be sued for wrong doing, but there needs to be caps and away to stop the frivolous law suits (My understanding is that Doctors win 90% of the time). (3) Create real competition, by allowing us to by a plan that fits our needs as consumers across state line. That’s access to more the 1300 HC insurance companies, that’s real competition. The government option is not competition; they’re not going to pay the taxes, they’re going to be run on taxes. They don’t have to show a profit, and the Presidents idea that you’re going to run a HC system with the savings of corruption from another government HC system-Medicaid is ridiculous.
That is the whole problem with Washington it is corrupt and needs term limits to stop the special interest groups from gaining close relationships with our politicians on either side.
That first image.. the one linked on Malkins blog is from Obama's inauguration.. I'm not sure why they are using it...
[...] ABC corrects their erroneous claim of millions of protesters. Apparently, the leader of those protests just straight-up lied. The power of misinformation and the Internet. There’s more here. [...]
Open letter to the American People,
dear Americans,
as a non-american i have been quite keen to follow your struggles in defining your future. In this day and age, where nothing is as it was 30 years ago, it can be very hard to determine once place in society, especially if an individual has been able to lock itself out of this change for a couple of decades.
i would like to thank all americans in doing their best to make sure this transition is done in the most hilarious way possible. the main reason im so interested in this debate is simply because every week i think it cant possibly become any more hilarious, but then you guys get creative again.
im serious you cant beat american ingenuity!
what im saying is keep up the crazy america im lovin it.
Right-wingers are shamelees. Just as they lie about "death panels," they lie about the number of people are their "rally." When they real truth won't due, they create their own. Remember how Cheney stuck to the "Mohammed Atta was in Iraq" story, all the way up to last year.
[...] Saturday’s questionably large “Tea Party” protest in DC, a counter protester marched through the sea of angry [...]
If there were 300-400 thousand at the big antiwar march a couple years ago there was easily 150-250 thousand at the march on Saturday. I saw both with my own eyes and used the antiwar numbers to gauge Saturday's.
Even if there were 2 million people there, that number is still way less that 1% of the US population. Now, I know out in the fly over states 2mil seems like a huge number, but it’s not, Obama beat McCain by five times that number. Two million is a drop in the proverbial ocean. And besides, whatever the number is, its still not going to change anything. Obama is still president, the Democrats still control congress, the majority of Americans still want health care reform. The majority of Americans also know that these protests are nothing more than a bunch of sore losers collecting en mass to lick their wounds and cry about how they are no longer relevant.
"It is estimated that between 60,000 to 300,000 million people showed up. Depending on what voice is talking in Limbaugh, Malkin, Bech or any other right wing conservative in their imagination.
all those "onward christian Confederacy soldiers" marching as to war with tea bags, semi-automatics, anti-Obama posters, obsessed with Adolp Hitler, and thrilled in their the bliss of their own ignorance, intolerance, borderline antisemitism, homophobia and latent racism. Still listening to the drug addict at 12noon on the radio and the psychotic, semi-coherant FAUXNEWS guy at 5pm who sees 'strange images in buildings' none of the rest of us have 'seen'.
Pitiful how compliant sheep get led by flashy words and fake news.
If you loons want to know what a crowd of 2 Million Americans protesting looks like look no further than the protest of the Republican Convention in New York in 2004.
When we Democrats organize a Grassroots Campaign we do not have major corporations funding our protests like you Goopers do!
You just don't get it.
I was against the Iraq War AND the new spend a thon.
Democrats are protesting, too. We really are.
What are they protesting again? Black people?
I heard 18 million people showed up at a rally in my back yard to demand that Glen Beck address the rumors that he raped and murdered a young girl in 1990.
Sore losers were not at the tea party. People in attendance were people who care about the future of our country. THe national debt our children and grandchildren will inherit. The needless spending of the present administration.
They were not just republicans. They are people who care. We don't want more government taxing us. We pay enough taxes. We want freedom of choice. We don't want government telling us how, when and what we can do when it comes to our own healthcare. We don't want illegal aliens receiving help from the government by way of our taxpayers dollars. We want to choose our doctors. We want to choose our hospitals. We are sick of government run everything. Government is suppose to be of the people, FOR the people and by the people.
We do not want to be a socialist country.
We need to enforce the constitution. Not make new laws. It seems the administration has made poor choices.
Those of you who say the tea party was a bunch of sore losers, just know,
there are many many many more who agree with what they stand for.
There are probably many millions who agree but could not attend. I am thankful for those who could attend.
U dems and libs can only BITC*H about bush even tho hes been out for 7 months.
Are U going to bi*tch about him in 6 years?
Are U going to blame all YOUR failures on him for ever?
If Obama was any good then he would FIX the probs U complain about,like the patriot act! Its still there how has he changed it?
Why has Obama not done a single thing to repeal the patriot act?
U NEVER ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING! YOUR WORTHLESS! DO SOMETHING YOU NAGGING HOES!
AT least the teabaggers got off there fat lazy asses and went to washington to proest for there (and your) freedom! what have U done?
U commented on a news article. woopte doo!
YOUR MORE WORTHLESS THEN A BUNCH OF Tea bagging REDNECKS!
SO how are u going to bitc*h to hide your shame? U going to bring up GW Bush AGAIN?
Its not about Bush its about Obamas IMPROVEMENTS...or the lack there of.
You liberals are really pathetic! It never ceases to amaze me how easily you resort to name-calling and insults when the facts don't agree with your cause. Be brave enough to go to Glenn Beck's web page and watch the march videos. You can't fake that. I was there. I know. "The mob" is coming!!!
I have lived in Washington DC on Capitol Hill for nearly 20 years. I have attended all manner and size of protests, rallies and other events during that time. This comment section is RIDDLED with lies and misinformation about the size of the event.
I took the Metro (subway) to the protest around 2 pm. There were no train delays and only the normal amount of weekend passengers. There were NO traffic reports of problems on I-95 or in the city itself, and there were NO streets blocked with cars or shut down, except for 3rd Street right in front of the Capitol where the stage was.
There were 20,000 people at this event, TOPS. the crowd was so small it did not even make it from the Capitol lawn onto the Mall. there was almost no one on the mall except some Japanese tourists and a few guys playing ultimate frisbee.
Ron Russell
Breaking up the country wont work , for example Colorado fought AGAINST the south but is quite conservative. We are VERY anti south, VERY anti racist.
This means U would have 6-7 states in the blue and the rest RED (conservitive), not southern.
75 % of Americans SELF IDENTIFY as conservative.
The liberal states are already bankrupt and are trying to get the fed to pay forthere health care/welfare. The blue states would collapse as they are already collapsing!
The blue states are the insurance Masters butt kissing states as they wont let competition in , they only allow 6 insurance company s in new york.
Insurance Masters limit competition but not tort reform.
dems wont touch tort reform as it stops the rich lawyers from shafting the injured.
tort reform doesn't limit DAMAGES! Only "pain and suffering" to $250,000. "PAIN" is where lawyers make most there money.
By 2pm one of the speakers said that they were backed up so far they blocked off the freeway and shutdown that part of DC.
Any news paper, station, etc. where you get your news that plays this down, when it was one of DC largest demonstrations of all times, probably didn’t tell you 2 months ago about Vanjones and all the other radicals the president has placed as czars/advisors.
LIES !! Find and cite for me ONE press report that says DC was shut down, or there were more than a few tens of thousands, at most.
If there were over a milliion people, there should be aerial photographs of the crowd covering well over half of the National Mall. No such photos exist (outside of Photoshop) because THEY WERE NOT THERE.
Latin Patriot
vicousSOB
Nancy
Thank you for proving that the teabaggers are really just sore losers trying to cope with fact that they are no longer relevant. The fact that you need to resort to lies and name calling says a real lot about your "cause".
There's a latino kid somewhere watching all of this thinking: what if the president was Latino? Would they treat him the same way? KIss those votes goodbye Republicans.
Interesting that D. C. police estimated the crowd Saturday between 1.75 million and 2.5 million, larger than ANY gathering in Washington in history.
No wonder ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC and their ilk have no following, not to mention the failing New York Slimes and other major newspapers. The elitists running those media abandoned true journalism years ago - and think we can't see through their lies of omission and commission.
still waiting for the change...
I am amazed at the amount of hate and vitriol that seems to be the overwhelming majority of thought here. So am I to take it that everyone on the left are incapable of rational discussion without things digressing into personal attacks and petty name calling. How can our society expect to survive if we cannot learn to love instead of hate. Hell, how can we expect to live with ourselves if all we can do is spew hate. If we seek to be the better people and treat others the way we would like to be treated then maybe we have a chance. If not then none of it matters, we are done as a people, we will destroy ourselves from within.
No matter how many people showed up, it was still more than Obama needed and the reach of the story goes way beyond what you folks are saying here. The story is big news here as well as over seas. At the end of the day, a significant number of Americans do not want ObamaCare and think this congress and administration is out of control. They will speak at the polls in November.
Good lord if I hear another tea bagger say "this is communist/socialist country controlled by corporations" I think I will have to ask that the entire American educational system be brought up on charges of malfeasance. I am honestly speechless that this bass ackwards thinking passes for brain activity.
I will defend your right to say whatever you want to the death. Because hearing you talk is the only way I or anyone else can determine 1) you don't know what the hell you are talking about and 2) the real danger to this country is your ignorance. This distinction between corporations and communism may seem small to you but to me you don't deserve the fervor of feeling you loudly proclaim because you don't have the facts to back it up. You're like automatons and me writing this won't make you think. You're patriot jihadists, not educated citizens. Your emotion tied to your lack of knowledge is a clear and present danger to peaceful democracy.
Joe
Obama beat McCain by more than 10 million votes, so unless more than 10 million were there, your idea that this was "more than Obama needed" has no legs on which to stand.
Again, I know many may think otherwise, but a crowd made up of less than 1% of the population is not anything close to "a significant number of Americans".
"This distinction between corporations and communism may seem small to you but to me you don't deserve the fervor of feeling you loudly proclaim because you don't have the facts to back it up."
* Lack of freedom for the individual
* Lack of democratic accountability
* Control of the system by a small minority, in their own interests
* Economic central planning
* Bureaucratic, hierarchical structure
* Need for constant propaganda and lies to maintain power
* Need to crackdown on any ideas different to the corporate/party line
* Endlessly complex regulations designed to obstruct and confuse
* Corruption, backstabbing and bribery provide advancement, not hard work
* Cannot cope with a competitive marketplace, use power and influence to block competition
* Pretends to help workers but really attempts to enslave them
* Constant need for more police and unlimited police powers
The problem for today's angry, confused (Is Barack a socialist, fascist, Marxist or what? Please choose; he can't be all three) conservatives is that they're all white. White people won’t be the dominant race or culture in America for much longer. By 2042, they will be a minority, and their percentage of the population will continue to decline throughout the century and beyond. The numbers and power of white people are eroding, not only in the United States but around the world. As the color and culture of our great nation changes, the crazed conservatives – who comprise a slice of the white population but not of the population of people of color – will find themselves steadily marginalized. http://tiny.cc/whitefolks
I was there, I SAW the crowd, all the way back to the monument. If you dems just CAN'T believe it, well....that is YOUR problem! We know and WASHINGTON knows, so what YOU think, DOESN'T MATTER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGmoKlHVZ48&feature=channel_page
How can anyone not be upset with Congress? You have Rangel, who admits to lying on his taxes to the tune of $3 million but is still in charge of the committee that makes tax policy. You have Congress & the Administration spending almost 2x more than they take in with no end of deficits in sight. You have Barney Frank saying we must increase low income house ownership and then having the whole thing blow up. You have Congress and the Adminstration saying we need better regulations when the old regulators can't do their job - FNM & FRE blew up, SEC totally screwing up, etc. I mean I am a conservative but this frustration isn't a democrat/republican thing - I think it is an incompetent leadership thing. All the incumbents need to be voted out!
It is not big news. No one cares except those of us who just want you to shut up. Your fight is BS. Your positions are BS. Basically, the tea baggers are full of crap and should seriously find better things to do with their time.
When Obama came to speak in St. Louis, Mo., 100,000 turned out to see him and support him, and that is just one city. This shows you just how small and insignificant the number of tea party protestors truly was.
Spin things anyway you want, but the truth isthe tea baggers don't like Obama b/c he's not a white christian country bred politician. He's different, educated, left leaning, and well spoken. THIS is what they don't like. I don't think it has anything to do with his policies.
"The problem for today's angry, confused (Is Barack a socialist, fascist, Marxist or what? Please choose; he can't be all three) conservatives is that they're all white. White people won’t be the dominant race or culture in America for much longer. By 2042, they will be a minority, and their percentage of the population will continue to decline throughout the century and beyond. The numbers and power of white people are eroding, not only in the United States but around the world. As the color and culture of our great nation changes, the crazed conservatives – who comprise a slice of the white population but not of the population of people of color – will find themselves steadily marginalized."
Excuse me? I am Hispanic, actually. This is the most asinine comment I have read - in a stream that is remarkable for it's foolishness. Liberals - whether they be Black, Hispanic, or the White-liberal-guiltridden need to get a clue. There are black conservatives. There are Hispanic and Latino conservatives. It's not the 'white boy's club' that your fevered conspiracy-theory fueled foolishness insists exists in America.
Conservative values embrace human dignity on the most fundamental level. People should be free to create the live they want for themselves limited only by their desire to work hard. Conservatives believe that every person can rise above their circumstances. That it is the role of government to provide a society based on justice, freedom, and personal responsibility. Liberal attitudes on the other hand embrace the concept that government should 'take care' of those they deem are not capable of achieving for themselves. You want to see the results of this liberal 'largess'? Take a look at the social welfare system of the Great Architect, Lyndon Johnson.
70,000 lunatic idiots is pretty bad. But it's nowhere near as bad as two million. And of course they lie about it... They lie about everything.
Rush is right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I love Glenn Beck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sean Hannity for President!!!!!!!!!!
Ann Coulter in my bed!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that will really get you leftwing looney jobs whacked out.
By thw way, how come all liberal women are either HORRIBLE looking or lesbians?
Wasup wit dat?
Another piece of shit IDIOT! The Ed SHow on MSNBC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18TvJYLupC8&feature=channel_page
Yeah, they want us to "SHUT UP alright". They KNOW will WILL take our country back. The people will not stand for this over spending, country take over, obsessive lying, crap. It's over COMMIES, you can't have our country!
NO YOU CAN'T, NO YOU CAN'T, NO YOU CAN'T
We gonna flip that Capitol in 2010!
Dear Captain Obvious,
A well chosen name but I am sure you didn't intend to be self-ironic.
* Lack of freedom for the individual
Really? Name one freedom that has been taken away?
* Lack of democratic accountability
Um... it's called voting. And so far the majority is not with you. If the majority were, they'd vote the present administration out. What I think you mean is "they aren't accountable to you". And for that we're thankful
* Control of the system by a small minority, in their own interests
I agree with you here...but that is rampant capitalism...not communism and technically it is an oligarchy. So please state this if it is your point or I will assume you're not aware of the difference
* Economic central planning
Really? Production quotas for tractors set by Washington? For PCs? For washers and tax preparers? Really? How do they get oxygen to your planet?
* Bureaucratic, hierarchical structure
Um... look around and name a government that isn't? Or better yet, name a governmental structure and organization that will not become eventually bureaucratic and heirarchical. Don't complain unless you have a solution and preferably one that's proven as better.
* Need for constant propaganda and lies to maintain power
Um...now you're into paranoia. We have voting and a system of government, See immediately above for details
* Need to crackdown on any ideas different to the corporate/party line
Again...really? Now please cite names dates and messages that have been supressed and that this supression has been corroboated by a neutral third party. It's your stance...prove it.
* Endlessly complex regulations designed to obstruct and confuse
Obstruct and confuse whom? Just because you don't understand it does not mean that the legal minds who interpret it don't understand it. The Commerce Act gives Congress the power to regulate commerce. The make laws. Lawyers undetrstand them. What the hell more do you want?
* Corruption, backstabbing and bribery provide advancement, not hard work
So please name a member of Congress or the Senate who has advanced to and maintained a leadership position by any one of these means? Not two, not three...just using one of those means to advance and maintain.
* Cannot cope with a competitive marketplace, use power and influence to block competition
Communism? I have to ask what the hell are you talking about here? Because businesses lobby for trade tariffs and embargoes but these are regulated by the WTO and NAFTA and other free trade agreements which prevent the unfair protection of industries and sectors. And some sectors need protection from dumping. But the long and short of it is that every form of government uses protectionist policies. Even your imaginary government would if faced with unfair trade practices
* Pretends to help workers but really attempts to enslave them
Wow... no paranoia there. Enslave them? As in "won't let them quit a crappy job because they're afraid to lose their health insurance" enslave them? Got it.
* Constant need for more police and unlimited police powers
WOW! Again... how do you get oxygen where you live? Name one policy to increase police forces or any policy of this administration to increase police powers?
Sitting back and awaiting more crazy rather than less. Because none of this will reach you. Join the conservative jihad! Get your 40 virgin trickle down tax breaks in heaven! Keep believing or your soul will burn in hell! Don't THINK! You might find you're just plain wrong! And nobody wants to face that!!!
Oh and one more thing...
All this crazy teabag weirdness is coming too soon and will burn out before 2012 and even 2010. I can only think that you seem to see yourselves like Timothy McVeigh and believe that your impassioned actions will bring about a revolution. Well, I hate to tell you but the polls all say you are a minority. Vocal, vigilant but in spite of how you want to be seen, you are a minority. Or at least the majority support health care reform and those who strongly oppose are a minority within a minority.
What I enjoy most is thinking of what this all means. First off, you're peaking too soon. Second, your stridency and lack of ability to engage in reasoned discussion of points and merits alienates the median voter who decides the election. In short, you think you're on the way up but really you are standing still or on the way down. Your 10 minutes of fame are up. I'm just hoping that none of you decide to kill a bunch of people to "start the revolution" like McVeigh thougjht.
Just an effort to educate people lacking the truth.
As an american citizen by choice since 1968, I witnessed facism take root in my country of birth during the Peron years; people without first hand knowledge of the facts are, in their ignorance, dangerous.
Fascism has nothing to do with communism, or capitalism; it is a third position.
It starts with total domination of the labor force; with the labor force under control, business in it's greed is subdued, and government through "interventors", or "czars", becomes the arbitrator and dictates prices and salaries.
Do not call sombody a Facist without knowing what you are talking about.
Incidentaly Argentina still in the pits.
J DENIS
"Rush is right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
**And I love Glenn Beck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sean Hannity for President!!!!!!!!!!
Ann Coulter in my bed!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that will really get you leftwing looney jobs whacked out.
By thw way, how come all liberal women are either HORRIBLE looking or lesbians?
Wasup wit dat?"**
Are you referring to Mann Coulter? Note: She is neither a liberal nor good looking.
http://www.allhatnocattle.net/ann%20coulter%20scary.jpg
I sure see a lot of ostrich comments. You can call people nuts all you want. That won't change the depth of their commitement. You might try listening instead to what is bothering them.
Sad indeed.
60,000 or 60 million. Doesn't matter. It was s sea of lilly white faces who are angry about one thing only: there is a Negro in the white house. Its not about issues. Just listen to some of the interviews with attendees: "America is being invaded by Muslims". Too bad McCain wasn't there to grab the mic and correct this concerned American. Attention right wing: Rush and Glen don't care about you one bit. They only care about their bank accounts, which only increase when they achieve high ratings. If they used their air-time to present rational arguments (which need to be backed up with facts, which requires work, which is not something these guys care to do if they can make millions simply by screaming) about important issues from both sides, that might actually enlighten some viewers/listeners, but that is way too boring to generate ratings. Nazis and "Socialism" are much more exciting, even though most of the people at this "grass roots" Dick Armey/corporate lobby-sponsored ignorance-fest probably could not define socialism, or find the places we are bombing on a map, or even name the three branches of government. The Earth is 6,000 years old, people lived alongside dinosaurs, evolution is just a theory, and Obama is the anti-Christ. That's going to bring a lot of moderates and independents on board, eh? "Pallin' around with terrorists" didn't work in '08. Nazis and socialism isn't going to work in '10 or '12.
Argentinian
While I appreciate your sensible description of fascism, the movement was broadly embraced by western power brokers back in the 1930s and the state of the US today reflects that change. American industrialists have invested heavily in undoing the so-called new-deal with the aim of destroying the American middle class for many decades and they are succeeding with the help of some of the more uneducated and misinformed teabagger dupes like some of the more ignorant posters you'll find commenting here and elsewhere.
Traditionally, fascism, today more commonly known as corporatism, has been embraced by the republican party but over time mant Democrats have gotten on board as well since the corporatists have deep pockets and wealth is a great temptation.
The upshot is America is ruled ostensibly by two parties, one of which is conservative and the other is mostly extremely right-wing conservative, while moderate liberals and progressives who seek a better society are pushed to the margins.
So, I understand your need to comment as some ill-informed people have been flinging the term around loosely without the first clue as to the actual meaning, just that it sounds kinda commie-like and Glenn beck told them to.
Here is an excellent education on fascism for teabaggers who are able to read themselves (probably rare at best) or they can get their parents to read it to them if indeed their parents are literate.
http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/economic-fascism/
Tracy
'I was there, I SAW the crowd, all the way back to the monument.'
Your personal anecdote is meaningless.
Here are the comparative photos. Let me know how it works out. LOL
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6534919&mesg_id=6534919
DV
'How can anyone not be upset with Congress? You have Rangel, who admits to lying on his taxes to the tune of $3 million but is still in charge of the committee that makes tax policy. '
And then you have the mouthy bullshit 'conservative' with no manners:
Joe Wilson and the Belgian Arms Maker-Ken Silverstein
First off let me say that I’m not picking on Congressman Joe Wilson of South Carolina because he called President Obama a liar. I’m all for the breakdown of political decorum and think democracy would be far better off if politicians from both parties were ruder. For example, imagine if the Democrats had had the courage to call President Bush a liar instead of voting to support the Iraq War. No, I picked on Wilson yesterday because he’s an extremist and today because despite his posturing as a model of political rectitude, he’s a typical pay-to-play hack.
Consider Wilson’s relationship with Fabrique Nationale de Herstal (FNH), a Belgian arms maker. Earlier this year, public records show, Wilson secured a $2.5 million earmark in the defense appropriations bill for the Special Operations Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR), which is made by FNH.
Since 2004, FNH has spent more than $500,000 lobbying for the SCAR, employing the services of a firm called the American Business Development Group to seek funding for the assault rifle. The firm has headquarters in Washington and several state offices, including one in South Carolina.
Since 2003, William Skipper, the president of American Business Development Group, has donated $8,800 to Wilson’s campaign. And Skipper also gave the only individual contribution this year to the Carolina Majority PAC, which is Wilson’s personal Political Action Committee.
“Working extensively on national defense issues with Congressional Committees and senior Federal officials, Mr. Skipper has earned a reputation for American BDG as the leading defense-oriented firm in Washington,” say his bio on the firm’s website. “He has played a critical role in bringing new technologies to the modern warfighter and has testified before Congress on issues related to the Department of Defense and Armed Forces.”
Skipper’s contribution to Wilson’s PAC — for $5,000, the legal maximum — was made on March 10, 2009. Earmark requests for the appropriations bills were due five days later. So FNH’s lobbyist was handing Wilson a check at virtually the same time that Wilson was asking for $2.5 million in federal funds for the lobbyist’s client.
http://harpers.org/archive/2009/09/hbc-90005682
People should look up the words communist, socialism, and Marxist in the dictionary before protesting. I know the words sound scary, which is what conservatives want, but that's just them continuing their tradition of keeping the public ignorant. High ranking conservatives do not want an politically educated public.
I'm an independent. My question is, why is it when I view these conservatives protests, I don't see any minorities or I see next to no minorities? I think conservatives only want certain people to join their cause. There is no way they can convince me that I should join their cause and I don't see anyoneone out there that looks like me. The Obama rallies I've been to have been very diverse.
Fedup Nor'easter
'Interesting that D. C. police estimated the crowd Saturday between 1.75 million and 2.5 million, larger than ANY gathering in Washington in history. '
So are fairy tales, which is what your claim is, which is even more interesting to me.
I noticed you didn't provide a link. Just a wild claim.
**Columbian Journalism Review...dispatches from reporters in DC. (Nico Pitney: “I’d put crowd at 10-20k. Only crowded area is b/w Capitol and 3rd. First part of mall is 1/4 full.” David Schuster: “I’ve covered rallies at dc capitol for 20 years. When the crowd goes only as far as 3rd st, it is 50,000 or less.”) Consider the aerial pictures of the 9/12 protests—which depict a healthy crowd, to be sure, but nothing remotely suggestive of seven figures.**
And consider that ABC News never reported that the protest had over a million participants.
It’s worth noting that the other mainstream media outlets covering the tea party protest story—from The Washington Post to The New York Times, from Politico to Fox News—ran with the D.C. fire department’s official, 60,000-to-70,000 crowd estimate. Even Glenn Beck, who fashioned himself, from his perch in New York City, the day’s master of ceremonies via his 9/12 Project, grudgingly accepted those numbers: “The official estimate is 60,000 people,” he said during his live coverage of the protest. “I’ve lived in Washington. It looks more than 60,000. But we’ll go with the official numbers today.”
Anything else Mr. Crowd Estimating expert who 'was there'?
The GOP has tied its future to the nut-job fringe. Not a single Republican has the guts to denounce the racist slime being produced by the Limbaughs and Becks of the world. This is a party that is devoid of ideas, morals, and any conscience whatsoever.
The freedom to be right or wrong is something I would never want to give up. After serving 37 years in the naval reserves I will always honor your beliefs. Because you believe things should be done in a different way. You do not have to call us names and disrespect our thoughts.
The time for action is now:
http://tinyurl.com/peo3b2
"Name one freedom that has been taken away?"
Patriot Act (as supported by both parties), right to privacy (many laws but telco immunity in particular), Habius Corpus, gone, Right to Self Defense, soon to be gone.
"Um... it's called voting."
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7362
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7244
http://www.bradblog.com/?page_id=3980
"So please state this if it is your point or I will assume you're not aware of the difference"
You might want to learn a bit more about how communism works. Perhaps start with North Korea or Zimbabwe, or just sit on your backside until the USA looks the same.
"name a governmental structure and organization that will not become eventually bureaucratic and heirarchical."
Which is why the size of government should be kept to a minimum, and also why corporate structures need constant revision as enforced by a competitive free market.
"Don't complain unless you have a solution and preferably one that's proven as better."
Pick up a history book, discover the origins of your own country.
"We have voting and a system of government, See immediately above for details"
You did not provide any details. If you believe the mainstream news tells the truth, I presume you come to RawStory just to scoff. Maybe have a go at actually reading the articles, surprise yourself.
"please cite names dates and messages that have been supressed"
http://www.peacefire.org/blind-ballots/
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/may2004/moor-m07.shtml
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/14/isp_takedown_study/
http://demint.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fuseaction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=8718c61a-ac98-faf8-429b-f5fc5ac232dc
"The Commerce Act gives Congress the power to regulate commerce."
...apparently also giving them the right to control gun ownership, go figure.
"Lawyers undetrstand them. What the hell more do you want?"
I want something that works for more than just lawyers.
"So please name a member of Congress or the Senate who has advanced to and maintained a leadership position by any one of these means? Not two, not three...just using one of those means to advance and maintain."
There's lots, please read it:
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/Aug1999/081699/criminalclass1-081699.htm
no, no, actually go back and read it.
"... every form of government uses protectionist policies"
True, but the world is a matter of degrees.
"Name one policy to increase police forces or any policy of this administration to increase police powers?"
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=108604
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst080904.htm
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0725/p02s13-usgn.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Police_State/FISA_Police_State.html
"Name one freedom that has been taken away?"
Patriot Act (as supported by both parties), right to privacy (many laws but telco immunity in particular), Habius Corpus, gone, Right to Self Defense, soon to be gone.
"Um... it's called voting."
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7362
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7244
http://www.bradblog.com/?page_id=3980
"So please state this if it is your point or I will assume you're not aware of the difference"
You might want to learn a bit more about how communism works. Perhaps start with North Korea or Zimbabwe, or just sit on your backside until the USA looks the same.
"name a governmental structure and organization that will not become eventually bureaucratic and heirarchical."
Which is why the size of government should be kept to a minimum, and also why corporate structures need constant revision as enforced by a competitive free market.
"Don't complain unless you have a solution and preferably one that's proven as better."
Pick up a history book, discover the origins of your own country.
"We have voting and a system of government, See immediately above for details"
You did not provide any details. If you believe the mainstream news tells the truth, I presume you come to RawStory just to scoff. Maybe have a go at actually reading the articles, surprise yourself.
"please cite names dates and messages that have been supressed"
http://www.peacefire.org/blind-ballots/
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/may2004/moor-m07.shtml
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/14/isp_takedown_study/
http://demint.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fuseaction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=8718c61a-ac98-faf8-429b-f5fc5ac232dc
"The Commerce Act gives Congress the power to regulate commerce."
...apparently also giving them the right to control gun ownership, go figure.
"Lawyers undetrstand them. What the hell more do you want?"
Humor?? I want a system that works for more than just lawyers.
"So please name a member of Congress or the Senate who has advanced to and maintained a leadership position by any one of these means? Not two, not three...just using one of those means to advance and maintain."
There's lots, please read it:
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/Aug1999/081699/criminalclass1-081699.htm
no, no, actually go back and read it.
"... every form of government uses protectionist policies"
True, but the world is a matter of degrees.
"Name one policy to increase police forces or any policy of this administration to increase police powers?"
There are heaps but posting too many URLs will get blocked so how about you do some research? Here's at least a start:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0725/p02s13-usgn.html
Rawstory regularly reports random people being tasered a great many times for no particular reason. For example the teenager so hit the ground after falling from a bridge got tasered because he wouldn't get up when instructed to (newsflash, he still didn't get up after about 10 doses of electric shock). How about the grandma who got beaten for failing to water her lawn? You might search on "Pandemic Response Bill" 2028 from Massachusetts, I'm sure there are others.
I'll remind you that the Dems supported telco immunity and haven't exactly rushed to rollback the Patriot Act.
"please cite names dates and messages that have been supressed"
http://www.peacefire.org/blind-ballots/
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/may2004/moor-m07.shtml
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/14/isp_takedown_study/
"The Commerce Act gives Congress the power to regulate commerce."
...apparently also giving them the right to control gun ownership, go figure.
"Lawyers undetrstand them. What the hell more do you want?"
Humor?? I want a system that works for more than just lawyers.
"So please name a member of Congress or the Senate who has advanced to and maintained a leadership position by any one of these means? Not two, not three...just using one of those means to advance and maintain."
There's lots, please read it:
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/Aug1999/081699/criminalclass1-081699.htm
no, no, actually go back and read it.
"... every form of government uses protectionist policies"
True, but the world is a matter of degrees.
"Name one policy to increase police forces or any policy of this administration to increase police powers?"
There are heaps but posting too many URLs will get blocked so how about you do some research? Here's at least a start:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0725/p02s13-usgn.html
Rawstory regularly reports random people being tasered a great many times for no particular reason. For example the teenager so hit the ground after falling from a bridge got tasered because he wouldn't get up when instructed to (newsflash, he still didn't get up after about 10 doses of electric shock). How about the grandma who got beaten for failing to water her lawn? You might search on "Pandemic Response Bill" 2028 from Massachusetts, I'm sure there are others.
I'll remind you that the Dems supported telco immunity and haven't exactly rushed to rollback the Patriot Act.
"please cite names dates and messages that have been supressed"
http://www.peacefire.org/blind-ballots/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/14/isp_takedown_study/
"The Commerce Act gives Congress the power to regulate commerce."
...apparently also giving them the right to control gun ownership, go figure.
"Lawyers undetrstand them. What the hell more do you want?"
Humor?? I want a system that works for more than just lawyers.
"So please name a member of Congress or the Senate who has advanced to and maintained a leadership position by any one of these means? Not two, not three...just using one of those means to advance and maintain."
There's lots, please read it:
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/Aug1999/081699/criminalclass1-081699.htm
no, no, actually go back and read it.
"... every form of government uses protectionist policies"
True, but the world is a matter of degrees.
"Name one policy to increase police forces or any policy of this administration to increase police powers?"
There are heaps but posting too many URLs will get blocked so how about you do some research? Here's at least a start:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0725/p02s13-usgn.html
Rawstory regularly reports random people being tasered a great many times for no particular reason. For example the teenager so hit the ground after falling from a bridge got tasered because he wouldn't get up when instructed to (newsflash, he still didn't get up after about 10 doses of electric shock). How about the grandma who got beaten for failing to water her lawn? You might search on "Pandemic Response Bill" 2028 from Massachusetts, I'm sure there are others.
I'll remind you that the Dems supported telco immunity and haven't exactly rushed to rollback the Patriot Act.
"please cite names dates and messages that have been supressed"
http://www.peacefire.org/blind-ballots/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/14/isp_takedown_study/
"The Commerce Act gives Congress the power to regulate commerce."
...apparently also giving them the right to control gun ownership, go figure.
"Lawyers undetrstand them. What the hell more do you want?"
Humor?? I want a system that works for more than just lawyers...
"So please name a member of Congress or the Senate who has advanced to and maintained a leadership position by any one of these means? Not two, not three...just using one of those means to advance and maintain."
There's lots, please read it:
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/Aug1999/081699/criminalclass1-081699.htm
no, no, actually go back and read it.
"... every form of government uses protectionist policies"
True, but the world is a matter of degrees.
"Name one policy to increase police forces or any policy of this administration to increase police powers?"
There are heaps but posting too many URLs will get blocked so how about you do some research? Here's at least a start:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0725/p02s13-usgn.html
Rawstory regularly reports random people being tasered a great many times for no particular reason. For example the teenager so hit the ground after falling from a bridge got tasered because he wouldn't get up when instructed to (newsflash, he still didn't get up after about 10 doses of electric shock). How about the grandma who got beaten for failing to water her lawn? You might search on "Pandemic Response Bill" 2028 from Massachusetts, I'm sure there are others.
I'll remind you that the Dems supported telco immunity and haven't exactly rushed to rollback the Patriot Act.
You democrats are going down. Picking ya off, one by one!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir-4RMtsIeg
Hey Obama, Kenya show us your "REAL" birth certificate ~ Obama an ILLEGAL ALIEN from Kenya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLnK9ADAAM8
birther = racist
lolol, "everything" is RACIST, to you baffoons! Find another comeback already!
[...] And Then the Lie Grew – Kibbe’s claim spread like wildfire during the day. From Kibbe’s mic it went to right-wing activist Tabitha Hale’s Twitter account — where, somehow, the number grew again, this time to 2 million — and from there it made it to conservative writer Michelle Malkin’s blog. Once it appeared there, there was no stopping it, and the claim was repeated at numerous –mostly right-wing — blogs. [...]
These morons who worship fox and are frightened of everything, except everyone having guns, are worthless. No one ever listened to them, no one ever will. They're livestock and the fat retarded child Beck is stirring them up with his stick of infinite stupidiy (I left one letter out, on purpose). Even if you listen to the frightened prattle they emit it doesn't make sense. Take the imbecile who managed to read the USS Constitution three (3!) whole times. He must have been exhausted what with having to look up all those words in the dictionary, well he probably skipped that part. Would you believe the USS Constitution he "read" three times (3!) completely agreed with him. That is astonishing.
I love guys like Nilbud. A reasoned argument? No. Lots and lots of insults though. Hey, you missed one - rascist. Oh, since Carter overplayed that card you don't use it anymore - I forgot. Obama told you not to, so you don't. Listen. Beck is a demagogue - just like Olberman and Matthews. The educated conservative has other sources of information.
Oh and 'bud' - the USS Constitution is a ship. The US Constitution is the document that has forged a nation and our guiding star. At least until the socialists have decided to usurp it. Take a look at Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. Also refer to the 10th Amendment. What we have here is a conflict between the definition of 'necessary and proper' and the clear restrictions on federal power as mandated in the 10th Amendment's 'reserved powers' clause. The Supreme Court on at least one occasion found in favor of the 10th Amendment - take a look at United States v. Lopez.
Since FDR, the Demoncratic Party has become the party of Big Government, Big Spending, and Big Brother. The common citizen needs to be monitored, fed, housed, and provided for - either because they are incapable of taking care of themselves or are unwilling to do so. Ultimately, they have realized that the source of their power lies in entitlement programs - look at Johnson's Great Society.....great compared to what, I wonder? The current leadership in Congress and the White House are the products of 70 years of carefully engineered American Democratic Socialism. Unfortunately, the party failed to realize that there are still far too many Americans who understand the 'USS Constitution'.....errr, the US Constitution.
USS Constitution - your moron club membership card is in the mail Nilbud.
"Since FDR, the Demoncratic Party has become the party of Big Government, Big Spending, and Big Brother"
Is that so? No, in 'fact', it is not.
Most people believe that Democrats are big spenders and that Republicans are tight-fisted. The evidence leads to a very different conclusion.
…
Since 1970, spending has grown 64% faster when a Republican sits in the White House than when a Democrat does.
* In the twelve years that a Democrat has sat in the White House, spending has increased at an average rate of 1.29% per year; during the 22 years of Republican presidencies, government spending has risen at an average rate of 2.12%. In other words, spending has grown 64% faster when a Republican sits in the White House than when a Democrat does.
* During the 20 years Democrats have controlled both houses of Congress, spending has grown at an average rate of 1.84% per year, more than double the average rate of 0.89% per year during the six years the GOP ran Congress. (During the other eight years, when control of Congress was split between the two parties, spending grew at an average rate of 2.52%. The split-control years all occurred during Republican presidencies.)
* When Democrats controlled the White House plus both houses of Congress, spending grew at 1.70% per year, slightly below the average growth rate of 1.83% for the entire period.
* The slowest spending growth occurred when a Democrat sat in the White House and Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. Spending rose by an average of just 0.89% during the six years of this situation, which all occurred with Bill Clinton as president and Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House.
* During the 14 years Republicans controlled the White House and Democrats controlled both houses of Congress, spending grew at an average annual rate of 1.92%. During the eight years with a Republican president and a split Congress, spending grew at 2.54% per year.
http://atypicalguy.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/spending-statistics-republicans-vs-democrats/
Oh dear, another myth vaporized.
Ahh johnny you're a few laps behind. Never attempt to contradict your betters again you look like a complete fool. Now go get your burgerdinner and go back to abusing members of your family, dumbass. Your ignorance and stupid racism is beneath contempt.
Your sad lies are easily seen as lies you dumb clown. I know the facts and you spouting lies like an idiot isn't going to work. Get an education and stop being such a frightened coward you vegetable. You don't think it's the U.S.S, Constitution, well you're just an obama liar then, keep your communist acorn notions. (You really are unbelievably ignorant, uninformed and frightened)
Maybe this video will help you blind lefties open your eyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULey3AaEuA8
nuff said...
Nil...I guess I need to read my USS Constitution some more.....racism? A little early to be playing that card, no. BTW - what race do you think I am, Nilbrain? I am dying to know what you think....you CAN think, no?
Education? Gee - I have two BA's and a MA - history and education, education leadership and instruction. And I am working on another Masters in history. Sorry that I am not educated enough to suit you.
Are you arguing from a conservative perspective now? I wonder - 'keep your communist Acorn notions' and 'Obama liar' makes me wonder if you really have any clue what the issue is here. Maybe we can come up with some picture books on the USS Constitution for you.
RFIDemocracy - Interesting data - as far as it goes. I would check your source, but a blog? C'mon, people. The educated debater goes to concrete sources directly. 'A Typical Guy' has an agenda - and that's ok...it's his forum. The fact that his is the first blog listed in a google search on the topic suggests that your knowledge on this topic is sketchy at best. But nice cut and paste skills.
Try this link on for size - at least they cite their sources and the content is written and fact-checked by academics.
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/BudgetChartBook/
Finally - and the most significant argument to support my claim of Democratic irresponsibility.....can anyone say ONE TRILLION DOLLARS? Another helping of ACORN pie anyone?
Johnny you're way out of your depth go run along and play at being a failure of a history teacher. Your ignorance is overwhelming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKBa9K_vAm8
You moron.
[...] http://rawstory.com/blog…ights-back-protest-size/ [...]
Bud Nilbrain....I don't know how many more facts I can bring to the table to counter your scintillating torrent of wit and wisdom. After all, your arguments have been ever so cogent, factual, and logically organized. Of course I am not a scholar of the USS Constitution.
ABC; what losers. Afraid of BHO. You sicken me.
Obama shutting down the internet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBzASrDhocc
We're being sensored on YT folks. Obama's got guys on the inside!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP_YgK-em6o&feature=channel_page
Republicans march for freedom.. uh... I mean RIDE RASCALS for freedom because we're too fat to Walk! YEAH!
Please help people, they are gonna try to ram the healthcare bill through with reconciliation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvi7iQJANKg
Too bad Chicago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkD2qhE2Fdc
Democrat who attends Tea Parties. Democrat who believes in gay rights. Democrat who believes in EQUAL RIGHTS! A Deomocrat who DID NOT vote for the current president. Not because he is black, not because I let media make me believe I HAD TO vote for a man who would break the glass of inequality for his race and all races. I did not vote for the man because I did not agree with him 80% of the time. Had everyone thought as I do, with their own mind and morals they would know that ALL candidates were not right for the job. All have taken a bite from the forbidden fruit, they are all corrupt, unfit to be a leader of a GREAT Nation. But too many Americans were pulled by the propaganda of race and racism.
Forcing bills and laws down your throat is not FREEDOM. I want to live free, I want my unborn children to live free. I do not WANT a future where we will be denied FREEDOM and EQUALITY. Freedom to do as I please, to speed down the road without a camera invading my space. Freedom to SAY what ever the hell I wish to say. Freedom to chose if I need a gun to protect myself if the cops cannot come to my aid in time. Freedom to chose if I want health coverage, or HELL NO I do not want the flu shot. Freedom to say I AM AFRAID OF NEEDLES!
I do not want to support the generations of people who abuse the welfare system, they do and they take pride in it, I have seen it. Now they want my taxes to support a healthcare we do not need! FOR CRYING OUT LOUD IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD YOUR OWN HEALTHCARE APPLY THROUGH THE STATE! By Federal Law EVERY state has a healthcare.
I do not want the Fed's to know my every damn move, they can and will with the Patriot Act that the Bush administration implimented. If I want to frolic in the park barefoot with flowers in my hair, I DO NOT WANT a fucking government to tell me no!
The Constitution is in shambles. The Republic our ingenious forefathers had administered is no longer that. (Even though in the Constitution it says there shall be no other form of Government other than that of a Republic). Most persons have not read this important document. I suggest to EVERYONE to read it and to understand it.
This Hope and Change, I just cannot swallow. I enjoy my freedom. I CANNOT AND WILL NOT GIVE IT UP. And that is why this Democrat attends Tea Parties at her local city. =]
Hi Roxy,
I admire your passion. But I would have to say that you may be a nominal Democrat but a literal Libertarian. I understand your frustration with the issues of influence and politicians. The problem with the idea that "all politicians are corrupt" is that leaves us with no one to represent us in a democratic system. And the democratic system is what makes this country GREAT. I would like to add my two cents about this. Great relationships are ones that have honest discussions about problems and their resolution. That being said, we are not great in comparison with many countries specifically in the areas of math, science and a host of subjects. If you ask my opinion why this is so, I would have to say it is because we now have the belief that an opinion does not have to be supported by fact, that just believeing a convenient "truth" makes it true. And we have a great deal of people who say that the emotion behind an position is directly related to its veracity. It is more often the opposite case.
In regard to "forcing bills down your throat", this is exactly how the civil rights act was passed. As were other necessary acts of government. Should we have not passed laws that protect against discrimination because there was a racist component (still is a racist component) that was adamantly against such legislation? In the case of the bailouts, are you astute enough to understand the ramifications of not passing it. In terms of health care, we have the highest percentage of GDP toward this with the 9th worst care system. Costs are expected to rise in the future. This does not even address the moral aspect of allowing an insurance company to deny a necessary treatment and effectively causing the death of a person. This is a problem and no there is no state healthcare available to everyone unless they are means tested and qualify. What is your solution to this moral and economic issue? How do you propose to reduce healthcare costs to make us globally competitive and prevent the ethical and moral abuses present in the system? If you are against it I understand. But you have to be for something better if that is the case and I am not seeing what that is.
From wikipedia: A republic is a form of government in which the head of state is not a monarch[1] and the people (or at least a part of its people)[2] have an impact on its government.[3][4] The word 'republic' is derived from the Latin phrase res publica which can be translated as "a public affair". We are a republic. And the Constitution is not in shambles although many would have you think so. From rights come laws which balance those rights against the needs of the greater good. You can't speed as you wish because it impinges on the safety of others. Free speech does not allow you to yell "fire" in a movie theater. Laws that prevent one person from claiming a right as a tool to abuse another person of cause injury are necessary to a functioning society. I have read the Constitution and I do understand it. More importantly, I understand its function in regulating society.
If I were confident that there was a solid economic and social rationale behind the tea parties, if I could see that we have had freedoms struck down right and left by this administration (where were the tea partiers when the Patriot Act was passed? If you are so passionate about freedom, where were all of you when this started under Bush?) then I would join in. But the timing is specious at best and the logic and rationale behind your positions seems more to be recitation that "it's wrong" without showing me you understand the underlying problem.
A tea party is not a solution. Please, please show me your solution. I don't care about your anger or your passion. I want answers to problems as do most Americans. Until you offer that, you wont change anything.
-Markus Aurelius