Bad news for anyone hoping that President Obama might still be open to the possibility of prosecution of high-level Bush officials: It ain't gonna happen.
That much was close to being certain before the torture memos were released Thursday. But the statement from Obama released with those shocking memos included this sentence: "In releasing these memos, it is our intention to assure those who carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice that they will not be subject to prosecution."
By singling out CIA interrogators to assure them they will not be subject to federal prosecution, I thought perhaps he was leaving room for future prosecution of higher ups. Given that he released such explosive materials almost without redactions, I thought perhaps he might allow himself to be influenced by shifting popular sentiment.
Nope: Obama's right-hand man, chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, explicitly rejected that possibility this morning on ABC's This Week. Emanuel said that the president believes Bush officials "should not be prosecuted either and that's not the place that we go." Not that that should surprise anyone: Obama said as much from almost his first day in office, when he told reporters he wasn't interested in a proposed Capitol Hill "truth commission."
That commission, of course, still hasn't happened, as our elected representatives reach across the aisle to block any prosecution suggestions.
Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina: "I think it would be disaster to go back and try to prosecute a lawyer for giving legal advice that you disagreed with to a former president."
Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri: "I don't think we want to look in the rearview mirror."
It ain't gonna happen.
-Jeremy Gantz
Obama has lost my support. Fuck him, and fuck the horse that asshole rode in on.
Obama can eat shit and die for all I care. I will NEVER vote for him again under any circumstances. And I WILL give money to his political opposition.
Since when is the pursuit of justice just "looking in the rear view mirror"? There were a number of principled CIA staff who resigned....in essence gave up their careers...rather than follow these torture memos. What do we say to them? Sorry for your integrity, but the people who stayed and performed these illegal acts get off scot free?
And what do we say to the enlisted people who are serving time for Abu Graib? If they had just hidden their actions a little better, we wouldn't have prosecuted them?
And what about the corrupt officials of the Bush administration? You are lying disgusting criminal pigs, but that's all old stuff we "don't want to revisit"?
The messages being sent here are extremely disturbing.
I will be writing a letter to Obama, the Justice Department (Holder), my Democratic Senator and my Repuglican representative explaining to them my reasons for separating myself from the political charades of the two party system.
The time has come for the people to move. People who seek justice, live justice and teach justice must, and en masse, put their bodies on the line. I think that is the only thing that will slow this horrendous immorality that now masquerades itself as a government.
.
Q U E S T I O N:
What does Obama stand to gain by protecting war criminals?
.
"And what do we say to the enlisted people who are serving time for Abu Graib? If they had just hidden their actions a little better, we wouldn't have prosecuted them?"
All your points are spot on--especially this one.
This outcome is simply unacceptable. Either we are nation of laws or we are failed state.
All this nonsense about moving forward is a political lie. Failure to fully prosecute Iran Contra and the S&L debacle, for that matter voter fraud, landed us with the Bush Junta.
Emmanuel is afraid too many of his friends are going to be implicated; the Democrats on various committees, including Pelosi, Feinstein and Schumer who were briefed on torture and gave it a nod plus all the members of congress who voted money for war crimes and blocked investigations.
The US government prosecuted German and Japanese government officials for approving a policy of torture. Most recieved prison sentences but one was hung.
The law states (the Geneva Conventions are domestic statute) that there are no exceptions and no defensee for torture.
The why the fuck did we bother with Nuremberg?
Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVZFlBJftgg
John Cusack dug that one up for us. Newman at his brilliant best in The Verdict. The closing argument scene.
Maybe we should send Emanuel a copy of Reifenstahl's "Triumph of the Will." Weren't his ancestors tortured, murdered and prosecuted by the Nazis?
"Change we can believe in."
This is one of the many reasons why some of us voted for Nader and McKinney.
This is why no prosecutions:
The Federal Reserve Banksters are running America via theyr CFR vehicle. They run our presidents and key individuals in Congress. If the torture thing ever went to trial all evidence would point to those unelected officials behind the cloak of secrecy.
Who wouldda thunk in a million years that it was a hidden monied aristocracy running America through the monetary system which was in fact illegally and unconstitutionally set up in the first place.
Most have no clue that the Federakl Reserve is a "private" banking system. The Federal Reserve has NEVER been audited. I believe it is time to do so and take their power away.
Please, whether you like Ron Paul or hate him, visit his site and support his bill which is the Federal Reserve Transparency Act H.R. 1207
Go to http://www.ronpaul.com and support this non-partisan bill and let the Federal Reserve skeletons out of the closet. Get your Representatives name and rattle his cage. This bill currently has 55 co-sponsors from both sides of the aisle.
For more on this go to http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7535755025025800195 and watch this video and here is more on the illegal and corrupt Fed:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912
hmm
When it comes to coverups, the Democrats are no different than the Republicans.
You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
Democrats really are not that much different than Republicans, not in policy anyway. I believe our Democracy became a "Coporatocracy" on 9/11. Wall St., the military industrial complex, and large corporations pay for the policies coming out of Washington. Obama probably would have never become president if he did not give the Bush crime family and the Democratic leaders a wink and a nod. Too bad people like me who visit several liberal blogs like Raw Story, DailyKos, and the Huffington Post can't organize. We need to take back the government from them.
I voted for Hillary. Now I feel vindicated. The predictors were all there that Obama was a spineless grasshopper.
meet the new boss...same as the old boss
Whatever, if congress wants and investigation, then it's up to congress, not the president, his chief of staff nor the attorney's general.
So as much as I am disappointed in Obama, it's up to the people to get this done, like anything.
So stop bitching and complaining and write your congress person.
if this is to happen, quite simply, the people must speak.
If you think Hillary wouldn't have been MORE likely to have done the same, you're dead dead wrong
Obama is too worried about what the right thinks.
News Flash- If you don't "abuse" them, they will make up things they were abused about. They need to play the victim, because that's what their entire platform is built on. Fear and martyrdom.
May as well give them something to cry about, and prosecuting war criminals in accordance with international law is not one of them
At least there's no statute of limitations. President Franken in 2016!
So going by this not so new standard if somebody robs a bank or kidnaps and tortures his neighbor it is simply something we need to put behind us and not prosecute in a court of law because we are not looking backward. Is that correct? Or maybe what our government is actually telling us is there is one set of laws for us and quiet another for you.. They are saying to me and many others that our so called representatives (what a laugh) are above the laws of the land and we aren't. People, we are getting flipped the finger yet again.
Change we can believe in, yea right!
IT'S VERY SIMPLE....START PROSECUTING BUSH WAR CRIMINALS AND YOU'LL EXPOSED AND CRACK OPEN THE AIPAC, THE ISRAEL LOBBY AND THE REST OF THE ZIONIST WAR CRIMINAL EXTERMINATORS.
OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IS MAKING THE SAME ARGUMENT TO IGNORE OUR LAWS THAT BUSH AND CHENEY MADE TO VIOLATE THEM
It is not “looking to the past” to ENFORCE the LAW. Since WHEN is NOT enforcing the law an acceptable option in AMERICA? It is “ignoring the law” to choose to ALLOW LAWBREAKERS TO GO UNPROSECUTED FOR THEIR CRIMES. Since WHEN is the POLITICAL ramifications of prosecution an acceptable/relevant argument?
WHERE does President Obama draw the line when it comes to IGNORING illegal acts? Is it EVERYONE in AMERICA who broke the law during Bush’s/Cheney’s reign; or is it ONLY those who were active participants in AIDING and or ABETTING Bush and Cheney? Since WHEN is someone who aids and abets a crime not subject to CRIMINAL prosecution?
The precedents that President Obama would set in failing to hold Bush administration appointees and or employees legally accountable for their illegal actions if FAR MORE DANGEROUS TO AMERICA’S FUTURE than whatever POLITICAL COST we might pay.
How can a Constitutional Law Professor advocate IGNORING the reasons that America was founded as a NATION OF LAWS instead of a NATION OF MEN?!
President Obama is WRONG to PREVENT the prescribed enforcement of our laws. In making the argument that “we have more pressing matters to consider”, he is making the SAME ARGUMENT to IGNORE our laws that the Bush administration made to VIOLATE them. The ends DO NOT justify the means!
Q: What do you call someone who refuses to prosecute war criminals?
A: A war criminal.
MY LETTER SUBMITTED TO THE WHITE HOUSE EMAIL CONTACT PAGE: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Mr. President,
Regarding the stance now taken that no one will be held accountable for torture by the previous administration.
Since when is the pursuit of justice just "looking in the rear view mirror"? There were a number of principled CIA staff who resigned....in essence gave up their careers...rather than follow these torture memos. What do we say to them? Sorry for your integrity, but the people who stayed and performed these illegal acts get off scot free? REMEMBER NUREMBERG?
And what do we say to the enlisted people who are serving time for Abu Graib? If they had just hidden their actions a little better, we wouldn't have prosecuted them?
And what about the officials of the Bush administration? You are lying criminals, but that's all old stuff we "don't want to revisit"? What do we tell our children, that people are not to be held accountable for their crimes because someone said you can break the law, International agreed to law of all things?
The messages being sent here are extremely disturbing. The world is looking to us to clean up our own mess and now we say to them we will not do so, it is not important?
SHAME ON THIS WHITE HOUSE, SHAME ON THIS CONGRESS. SHAME ON YOU Mr. President.
I supported you because you said you would open the doors to transparency and justice, and now like so many times in our nations history, we will allow criminals to go free because they are powerful or rich.
SHAME ON YOU Mr. President. Allow justice to be served!
You can no longer engender trust if you will not allow justice to be served. WE ARE HOLDING YOU ACCOUNTABLE NOW! YOU HAVE LOST OUR TRUST AND FAITH IN OUR NATION ONCE AGAIN!
The question now is, will you repair it? I am not sure any longer, and I am losing HOPE and TRUST in you.
Go back to israel rahm. Same old shit. The money, israel, corporate, wall street.
I only live here. Support this.
I don't think this is his decision any longer, the UN has pretty clearly stated that he does NOT have a choice
too many DINOCRATS would be DANGLING ON THE ENDS OF ROPES for violations of
the Geneva Conventions as well as EXISTING U.S. LAWS THAT PROHIBIT TORTURE.
this is a sad day.
this Rahm Emmanuel needs to go back to ISRAEL, as do all the other Israeli spies in
the U.S. government who are protecting TORTURE, MASS MURDER, and other heinous acts of barbarism against all humanity.
As for you, Obombaton, you are a disgrace to the nation for going along with this bullshit!
Tragically, Obama's defection (or is it defecation?) doesn't surprise me. His decision demonstrates the way he relates to power. A candidate is like a used car salesman. He will say anything to close the sale, or to get into office. After that, it's bait and switch, business as usual and to hell with those of us who don't like it. Anyone ever heard of Tom Campbell? I guess he might run for governor of California. He's a Republican, but a very bright one, and he might go for the Republican presidential ticket. But, does he believe in the Constitution, the rule of law? Does he condemn spying on Americans and torture? Just thinking out loud.
Jake: **** I voted for Hillary. Now I feel vindicated. ****
You're an idiot if you think Hillary would have been better. There is absolutely no doubt that she would have been even worse.
Oh fuck this..
Look, the central pillar of the culture of corruption we've suffered under, from Wall Street to Main Street to the halls of our Congress is a nearly total lack of accountability for those within easy reach of the levers of power.
It's a double standard, much of it codified in law, which effectively proclaims that there are, indeed, two separate and distinct systems of justice at work.. One for me and one for thee.
Screw Iraq and fuck Afghanistan! we're running hither and yon, over the entire globe spreading "democracy" while we have none at home.
I realize we are not a Democracy, but a Republic. Ironically, this distinction makes our plight even worse, as a Republic (In theory anyway) is not mob rule, but the rule & acknowledged supremacy of law! Laws which are routinely and willingly subverted during the legislative process itself, or simply ignored afterward. The powerful are simply too big to fail, I suppose.
In the coming months ans years, we may well have to face a horror few have even imagined - Americans looking wistfully to third world countries, longing for the justice and quality of life they offer their citizens!
Our plight will never end until and unless this two tiered system of justice is abolished, and every man is held to the same legal standard.
I shudder to think what it will take to accomplish this.
I am even more fearful of the things Americans will suffer if it is not accomplished.
*************************
Q: What do you call someone who refuses to prosecute war criminals?
A: A war criminal.
*************************
EXACTLY!!!
I can't believe this. It's time for civil disobedience on a mass scale. Can we get a movement to surround the justice department by say...a million people? I'm not going to tolerate this.
If there's no law in America...then it's anarchy. Grab those semi-automatics everyone. Thanks Dems!
Hey Disappointed voter.
Your the jackass. That is real thoughtful post you have written. I wish you would join the GOP... They need more assholes like you.... Oh yeah they really don't because they have enough.
I want the Bush admin held accountable as much as you do. It is defiently something that could consume the Obama administration if they were to pursue. Just because Obama doesn't pursue doesn't mean that others can't.
Bush and Cheney are luckly or geniuses on how they screwed the country up so much that President Obama can only play survival mode for the nation right now. No one get's away with it in the end.
It's not for Obama to decide.
If the US doesn't investigate war crimes, then the other signatory nations to the UN Convention Against Torture MUST investigate. Judge Garzon is simply following the letter and spirit of the law.
Obama and Emmanuel, by asserting that there must not be prosecutions, and by preventing the DOJ from investigating war crimes, are obstructing justice. This is also a crime.
I must agree with "disappointed voter." There's no way I can support a president who refuses to uphold the rule of law.
People care more about their dwindling bank accounts, increasing credit card debt, falling home values, staying employed than, conveniently for the Obama administration, seeing justice served on these despicable human beings. Put a price tag on it (or money in their pockets) and maybe they'll give a damn.
Have we become the new nazi state? (slightly rhetorical) "Just following orders" gets a pass? Last time I checked, the White House doesn't really have a say, assuming, of course, that the Justice Dept. and the AG are actually working for the people. Ha ha, I know, I know...
"...preserve and defend the Constitution" has no meaning anymore. Treaty's our country signs become the law of the land, according to the Constitution. Therefore, the Geneva Conventions ARE the law of THIS land, as we are signed to it.
I'm holding out a *sliver* of hope (sorry!) that the Obama admin is just trying to maneuver so that others (UN or ?) will take care of this and they won't take the political hit - cuz it's all about being re-elected, starting the day after you get in the damn office, right?
FUBAR
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
"Whatever, if congress wants and investigation, then it's up to congress, not the president, his chief of staff nor the attorney's general. So as much as I am disappointed in Obama, it's up to the people to get this done, like anything. "
----------------------------------------------------
You expect congress to seriously investigate this when they would implicate THEMSELVES n the crimes? Since 2000, when have The People done anything to "get this done?" Since 2000, the congress has consistently ignored The People. This story will be gone by Monday or Tuesday of this week. Most people could care less. Nothing here. Move on, as you were.
I'm so disappointed. There goes the immediate future, if not long term, of this country. Its all fair game for what ever administration is serving. They're all the same in Washington and they're all watching out for each others ass...and don't give a care for The People. But we should have seen this coming, first, the destruction of the Constitution of the Bush regime...and now, complete collapse of confidence in the government and who knows what will follow.
Mr. Emmanuel..... You are desperately trying to stop carefully laid plans from unraveling.. You know exactly where any tough/real questioning will lead - right into those 'dark places' you don't want mere mortals to see.. Any hard/forced/deep questioning of Bush, Cheney, or any members of the Bush Administration will sooner or later lead to the real decision-makers, to those 'Puppet Masters' who are really pulling the strings of US Government and U.S. Domestic, Foreign, and Fiscal Policy.. It certainly isn't the 'elected officials', is it ?? You have too much to hide Mr. Emmanuel, that's why you have been placed where you are - it's because of WHO YOU REALLY ARE.. You Sir, are a 'cleaner'.. The mess your ilk have created is unraveling beyond your control.. The 'sheeple' are becoming inquisitive beyond their 'right to know', and the 'cattle' are becoming restless.. Oh dear, whatever will you do ??
the recent israeli phosphorous bombing of civilians (on camera no less!) is internationally recognized as a war crime and should be prosecuted as such... unless you ask a jew that is, then it is OK and we should just move on and get over it and ignore the human rights violations. they were done in good faith and for a good cause.
one of the people defending the rights of the bush cabal to do what they did is non other than rahm (the jew) emmanuel. i wonder where he got his line of reasoning?
where is the great jewish tradition of jurisprudence? of justice, of honor? apparently they edited the history books too.
classic.
I voted for Obama. I Contributed money to his campaign. I worked for his campaign. I will vote, work and contribute money for another candidate in 212. I voted for change not short change. Obama is setting himself up to get hit from left and the right. Not a good place to be for any president. There is a saying. Anyone who not part of the solution is part of the problem. Shame on you.
Looking forward without dealing with the crimes of the past is BULLSHIT!
DO YOUR GODDAMN DUTY!
obama can hang next to the bushes after a fair trial.
Their needs to be a Major Protest!! Emanual should have a legion of protesters were ever he goes and CNN needs an email/twitter/facebook campaign starting Now!!
Why are some of you surprised that the Obama regime is continuing much of the Bush regime? What did you expect?...assuming you had examined Obama's Bush-accomplice senatorial voting record.
I'm wondering what the Obama excuse-makers will come up with this time. I suppose they will come up with some stuff like, "well, you know, the right-wing would kill Obama if he were to say anything or do anything, so I support him for going along with the Bush regime AGAIN. Somehow he's correct. Just believe me. He may not be perfect but I'll come up with an excuse for Obama later as soon as I can dream up one."
Hey, AG Holder & President Obama
I killed a federal law enforcement agent during the course of a major drug-smuggling operation, which involved blowing up a schoolbus full of children as a distraction. Afterward I raped, killed and ate a nun in celebration of my escape.
Glad to hear that ya'll are looking forward -- it sure feels good to get that off my chest.
Dr. Gene Colombini wrote:
"I voted for Obama. I Contributed money to his campaign. I worked for his campaign. I will vote, work and contribute money for another candidate in 212. "
----------------------------------------
Personally, I don't believe that for a moment. In 2012 when Obama is running against Newt Gingrich or whatever piece of trash he's running against, you and others will say, "well, I haven't agreed with Obama on everything, and I have problems with Obama, he may not be perfect but he's better than so and so, therefore I will vote for him again even though back in 2009 I said I wouldn't. I didn't really mean that."
I've heard these empty threats for years. It's why we are where we are today. I wanted CHANGE too, which is why I voted for Nader and others voted for McKinney. But most people didn't have the intelligence or foresight to vote for either Nader or McKinney and now they are expressing buyer's remorse. Tough luck. We have 8 years of this to go through.
What a disappointment. Like Sarkozy said: Obama is weak.
He's just another shyster politician. He won't get my vote nor any more donations. Same with the wishy-washy Dems who don't seem to understand what Congress's role is in our system of checks and balances.
This is a sad day for our country. I don't expect anything to happen with Healthcare either. There's no moral leadership in this country.
I'll be happy to watch Hillary cut the rug from under Obama in 2012. Though not a big fan of hers, at she has more cajones than Obama seems to.
I mourn for our Constitution and the ideals which, once, made our country great, but are now on the way out due to political expediency.
Shame on Obama.
Not to worry. When Sarah is elected in 2012, she will impeach Obama on war criminal charges after she puts a limit on charges of over 4 years old.
Obama's pro-Bush position was already CLEAR enough ... maybe the headline should be "Emanuel Rubs It In". Meanwhile, Axelrod goes on teevee to nyah-nyah at the National Rifle Association? It's gonna be a heck of a summer.
NOTE: if you increase the type size on the new interface, people over 40 will still be able to read it.
IMPEACH oBUSHma, plain and simple.
No more gvt propaganda, No more torture apologists, no more blind blue & red Kool-Aid drinking sycophantic turds, dictating direction of ANY political discussion.
There is NO Left vs. Right. ONLY WE, the FREE Humanity vs. murderous financier oligarchs and their sycophantic turds who parade around as our civil servants.
No MAS!
We've been saying this for a long time. YOU ARE GONNA WISH YOU VOTED FOR RON PAUL. You can bitch about economic issues you pretend to understand, Ron Paul's social stance. But it's all moot, unless the gvt servants live up to the ONLY oath of office they take, to uphold, defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States of America, AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.
Freedom and liberties MUST come first, if we are to have ANY meaningful debate. We can disagree on numerous issues, but at least we all MUST respect the ENTIRE Bill of RIGHTS. Without a legal framework that ensures our liberties and freedom, we cannot even begin to debate it. What good is it, if like USSR, you're locked up for dissenting opinions or political views?
If the gvt cannot ensure liberties, and freedom, it's pointless. So liberals, ask yourselves, the fundamental question: "WHAT is the PURPOSE of gvt?"
It's NOT, to bailout oBOMBa's Wall St. buddies and feign disgust at their bonuses, WHEN HE SIGNED off on it, while in Senate and his short time as the Pres.
It's NOT, about continuing Bush police state policies, without fully upholding the rule of law. Or letting these war criminals, neoKUNTS, and Democrat enablers of war and torture, off the hook, without ever prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law. We NEED another Nuremberg.
How much more lies and betrayal can you guys take, before you RISE up against this puppet and hold him accountable to the Constitution, or at the least, the feckless and insincere campaign promises he made?
wake up. DOWN with the NWO!
It has become a crying shame to see the first signs of a crumbling effort to bring about " Changes we can believe in ", which has been the driving force for Millions who had voted for Barrak Obama , going right down the drain !
As correctly noted here " . . . . Obama's right-hand man, chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, explicitly rejected that possibility,desperately trying to stop carefully laid plans from unraveling. You know exactly where any tough/real questioning will lead - right into those 'dark places' you don't want mere mortals to see. Any hard/forced/deep questioning of Bush, Cheney, or any members of the Bush Administration will sooner or later lead to the real decision-makers . . . .
Yes, you all were guessing right: that >dark place who are really pulling the strings of US Government and U.S. Domestic, Foreign, and Fiscal Policy.real change we can believe indark place< by name.
It has become a crying shame to see the first signs of a crumbling effort to bring about " Changes we can believe in ", which has been the driving force for Millions who had voted for Barrak Obama , going right down the drain !
Yes, you all were guessing right: that >dark place who are really pulling the strings of US Government and U.S. Domestic, Foreign, and Fiscal Policy.real change we can believe indark place< by name.
ABC, formerly something of a hold-out in the selling of the "Obama" organization, seems to be censoring ANY comment which isn't either
1. hurray for Obama
2. Obama is a comsymp
Those who read here might want to test this out there. It's kind of alarming, in that it sets up the "right" -- just as the Napolitano report did -- versus ObamAmerica in a let's-you-and-him-fight play ... stifling the expression that those who elected this preening poseur are PLENTY peeved, and in agreement with the tea-partyers on some things, chiefly the transfer of the Treasury to the very rich.
They will reap the authentic whirlwind soon enough, one H o p e s and supposes ... but in the meantime it's a creepily-Nazified propaganda model.
Until the Bush Doctrine (preemptive "justice" is OK), our legal system was based on many concepts from English Common Law dating back to the Magna Carte in 1215 AD. The right to habeas corpus is first mentioned in that document.
When the Constitution was being written, the Bill of Rights was attached to assure the states that the rule of law was reasonable. You had to have evidence against someone and they must be convicted in a court of law by a jury of peers before they could be deprived of their liberty. This was our legal systems definition of "justice".
There is just one problem. The collection of evidence, presenting that evidence in court, and holding a trial are all actions that LOOK BACKWARDS.
LOOKING BACKWARDS is the fundamental activity in establishing justice. Only in Bush's mind can you attain justice BEFORE the crime has taken place.
To see Mr. Obama fall for the argument that justice cannot even be begun because we have a lot on our plate is very sad. Perhaps he ought to walk to the Vietnam Memorial and as he walks down the slope be enveloped in the enormity of sacrifice that has been made for this country in only one war. Possibly he might realize that he must make some sacrifices too and re-establish justice for all.
well, sadly, it's official - the u.s.a. chooses to be a rogue nation. its government officials are either criminals, co-conspirators or abettors. its economy is run by a criminal oligarchy. all laws and treaties, foreign and domestic, are only applicable if deemed profitable to the military-industrial-media-incarceration complex and their owers. the dlc has usurped our votes and, thus, the will of the people again. how disappointed are you, sucker? hope? change? ... paleeze! ralph nader offers some good and 'practical' advise to we the people today ... again ... find it.
As you know, both parties are corrupt to the core.
Those of you saying "look at me, I voted for Nader!" Puh-lease. In a true three (or more) party system he still wouldn't stand a chance. He's never stood a chance. Get over it. Move on.
We definitely need more options than two (which is really one, in the end) but the likes of Nader, McKinney, that POS from Georgia, and, yes, Paul will never get it done.
I voted for Obama but not because I was googly-eyed for his 'change' BS. It was the lesser of two evils. I bet there are millions that did just the same, which is sad. Yes, there were millions more that bought the hype. Maybe some of them will come down to earth and be outraged.
The pols need to watch it. When employment tips over 10% crazy shit starts to fly. Once the herd gets going I wouldn't want to be on that hill or in that house. So, who's going to get it going?
Joe Justice writes:
" It was the lesser of two evils."
No no no it WASN'T the lesser evil.
Had the Republicans prevailed, and tried that trick of transferring the Treasury, the Revolution would be well underway. As it is, we're stuck with the liberals' hesitation, brought on by the sovereign executive's fetching skin-deep birthday suit.
Since when (ha!) has the rule of law been correlated to the impulses of
political hacks? Obama and his Iago, Emmanuel, need to recall the
impetus of Barack's election.
Let's not forget that it is not up to Obama.
It is up to Holder.
The AG has the duty to prosecute when the law requires it.
Obama can have a policy but Holder must uphold the law.
Congress can appoint a special prosecutor too.
Don't give up.
Joe Justice wrote:
"Those of you saying "look at me, I voted for Nader!" Puh-lease. In a true three (or more) party system he still wouldn't stand a chance. He's never stood a chance. Get over it. Move on."
-----------------------------------------------
Nader and McKinney didn't stand a chance because most people didn't have the intelligence and foresight to vote for him and they got little exposure from the corporate media. Period.
But I'm glad I voted for Nader/Gonzalez because I voted my conscience and I'm not at all responsible for the person sitting in the White House today who spewed "hope" and "change we can believe in" manure for the sheeple's consumption, and like good sheeple they bought it.
You say you voted for Obama because he was the so-called "lesser of the two evils." Really? Are you not aware that Obama consulted McCain on his cabinet choices and McCain said he would have chosen many of the same people?
Obama Reaches Out for McCain’s Counsel
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/19/us/politics/19mccain.html?ref=politics
But back to your "lesser of two evils" mentality: That's exactly why we stay where we are by people staying cemented in the "lesser of two evils" rut and D and R party-line indoctrination.
Power will corrupt anyone.
It does not discriminate.
Think of the name of a politician you think can't be corrupted and you are wrong.
There is a formula for a hypothesis ... check it out.
Yes, perhaps it wasn't the lesser after all.
I'm sorry, though, the "Revolution" wouldn't be underway, nor will it. The corporations won't allow it. The Corporatocracy is in full effect. AND the average populace of our country really don't give a fuck. Not until it hurts them personally.
However, more and more are being hurt in the pocketbook while the greed hucksters on Wall St and in the golden banks continue to rake it in and skate free. I'm not hoping for a depression but that's probably what it will take... but even then. When the economy turns around the Bush Torture Company will be forgotten anyway while we concern ourselves with finding that next McMansion, buying a Range Rover and getting botoxed up. That's what REALLY matters to us Americans.
Bush & Cheney et al will never make up for their 911 blunder, and the neolibs know it. Ggetting Obama to schmooze around with former hostile leaders isn't going to work. International Intel knows that 911 was an inside job, and the truth will come out, one way or another, sooner or later. Obama's not the judge and jury.
I think you guys got it all wrong. It's a smart play for Obama. He moves on. If he didn't he be mired in a morass that would consume his presidency. All he really has to do is make the history of events open to the glare of public scrutiny, which he is doing with the torture memos.
Bush Co is really only worried about it's legacy and treatment in history. They could overcome any legal challenge, but they can't overcome public opinion. The history books will never be kind to them, and this is their greatest fear.
Obama gets this problem out of the way, now he can work on the economy, environment, health care, assorted wars, etc. The country moves on. Soon everyone will sing Obama's praise (except of course for the Reich wing.)
Go Obama. Smartest president we ever had.
Time to hit the streets again. Sigh. I didn't think it would have to be so soon.
This cannot stand. We have to raise hell until they decide it's politically untenable to not prosecute.
Sam, you made good points. And while I'm sure you 'feel good' for voting your conscience, what did that accomplish in the greater scheme of things?
The system is corrupt, broken, dead. The current system will not allow what you want (a real third party -keep dreaming). And the corporations won't either.
Things are going to have to get much worse before your dream comes true.
Yes, I voted for Obama. Give me a good choice and I'll vote for them. Nader ain't one of them. McKinney isn't either. Kucinich nearly had me but not quite.
By the way, you and your conscience did 'wonders' in 2000. Thanks for that.
But is it really the role of the President to prevent ANY trial. Is it in his power only ? Following what Johnatan Turley recently said (to Rachel Maddow), it is not.
But after some, outside the administration, do ask for inquiry, the president should name an indepedent prosecutor.
Note though R. Emmanuel said "SHOULD not be prosecuted", rather than "must not". If one can understand sone political reasons why the administration doesn't wan't to appear as the origin of the prosecution, it would be a strange shift in American tradition to leave this matter as it is.
The same Spanish lawyer (Baltazar Garçon) who once tried to prosecute Pinochet is now trying to put some torture deciders under trial… on behalf of Spanish prisoners.
Instead of airing their deception toward an omipotent Obama, Americans should try to plant a complain from within American soil. The President is not the alpha & omega on those judicial matters.
Hmmmm..
So now how do we tell China, Darfur and all the other rogue nations that they need to observe HUMAN RIGHTS?????
Nice one.....great example Mr. President
Watch the rest of the world simply ignore basic human dignities and human rights and tell America to stuff itself...
Tibet anyone?
and on and on it goes.
Let's hope the Spanish Courts can actually do something to uphold international laws which America even under a new administration is so determined to ignore. Nope...don't apply to us..
Bullshit.
Disappointing to the ent degree...but predictable, sadly, oh so sadly.
Wake up. The USA ceased being a country
based on the rule of law on November 22, 1963.
"disappointed voter" and others like him are obviously Republicans posing as disappointed Democrats. You can tell when he says "And I WILL give money to his political opposition".
Jerks.
Hundreds of thousands murdered in the invasion and conquest of Iraq.
Millions of lives and minds ruined. The national treasury pillaged for war profiteers. The "nationalized" oil industry of Iraq siezed and turned over to western oil interests. And the president refuses to enforce the law of that land that he swore to uphold! I tremble at the thought of a just God.
Zardoz writes:
"Soon everyone will sing Obama's praise (except of course for the Reich wing.)"
Soon everybody -- including the Wilhelm Reich ring -- will be burning Obama in effigy.
Joe Justice asks "So who's going to get it going?" (I lost my FIRST response in the fancy new interface, which hopefully rawstory will train to hold ON to posts on which one mistakenly clicks "Submit" without having entered the ID info.)
Jesse Jackson'd be good to "get it going". He must be terminally steamed by now. Less loss of life for the poor that way, maybe ... he might be able to negotiate the whole thing, including the return of the "bailout" bucks, AND enjoy doing it. Maybe Howard Dean could help him, on the single-payer National Health front.
As it is -- Joe Justice mentioned "crazy ____" -- there are family-annihilator-style "murder-suicides" every day, the OFFICIAL unemployment rate in California is OVER eleven percent, and a couple of notable skirmishes with the police have occasioned state funerals on teevee for the "fallen". I sort of look for the media to start suppressing the "murder-suicides" as LOCAL stories, and to continue pulling out all the "patriotic" stops when some citizen -- maybe, soon, groups of citizens -- engages in possibly-"suicidal" armed actions with the uniformed authorities.
Oh, He'll "bring us together", alright.
Zardoz,
I doubt that "everyone" will ever sing your messiah Obama's praise, at least on here because as you can see most people here don't wear blinders. But you and Dredd can keep drinking your "Dem Team" party-line kool-aid and make excuses for your messiah and remain in your stupor. I don't think there's any "hope" for either one of you because Denial is very difficult to cut through.
If Obama truly wanted prosecution, IT WOULD HAPPEN. Period. When Bush wanted something, he demanded it and congress gave it to him immediately. Obama was asked the other day, what he was going to do about the environment. He said he was going to put 2 million plug-in hybrids on the streets during his first term. Some of you say this man is intelligent? There are over 200 million vehicles alone on the streets. What will 2 million plug-ins do? Absolutely nothing. He needs to think much bigger than THAT! The man is just a corporate politician and that's all he's is. Just like McCain.
Ralph Nader had a credible environmental agenda. Please go read it. Nader also has a brain and is a true progressive, unlike the corporate, pro-war messiah Obama or his sidesick, McCain.
At the least Obama should make clear that these criminal acts were vicious and wrong for the country. Then he needs to explain clearly why he has chosen not to prosecute, that it would do more harm in dividing the country than good (even if many of us think otherwise). However to just let them off scot-free without severe condemnation is to appear to condone their illegalities.
@67
yep - that about sums it up. this lawlessness is the last straw. That fuckwit obama took an oath. torture WAS and remains a crime. He is duty bound to prosecute. It's virtually pointless to even talk about fucking democracy in this god damn corporate fascist police state we call the USA. down with it. America is dead. Let's move on with something new.
Joe Justice wrote:
"By the way, you and your conscience did 'wonders' in 2000. Thanks for that."
You are now making some erroneous assumptions about me. I know what you are trying to get at here and I'm not going into that for the umpteenth time. But in 2000, I voted for Gore. Not Nader.
Also, what did your vote for messiah Obama accomplish for you in the end? Need me to rattle the list off for you?
Here's an abbreviated list for you:
Continuing the Iraq war/occupation
Increasing the Afghanistan occupation
Starting a war on Pakistan
Continuing illegal spying
Continuing illegal wiretapping on US citizens
Off shore oil drilling on both East and West coasts
Letting the Bush Crime Family go free - 100%
Giving trillions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to the bankers who caused the near-depression we're in in the first place.
Letting Bush and Cheney off for torture.
And how long has this man been in office?
Good god, we thought Bush was bad!
Thanks all of you messiah voters. Ya suckers. Have another sip of your "Dem Team" kool-aid and keep making pathetic excuses for your Bush-accomplice messiah.
it's like he is thinking "What would my terrorist father do?"
I guess Nixon was right, when the President does it, its not illegal. I guess the President/constitutional lawyer thinks the Constitution is "just a goddamn piece of paper".
Sam writes:
"Obama was asked the other day, what he was going to do about the environment. He said he was going to put 2 million plug-in hybrids on the streets during his first term. "
He forgot all about the little rubber TIRE thingies, apparently, and the straw-bale ASPHALT. Maybe He can put rubber trees where the Gulf Coast used to be, and get it to .... whatever peasants are going to be putting hybrids together on that imaginary railroad ...
get back joe-joe ... good points sam. here's another ...
some weeks before the election there was a vote on a rewrite of FISA. this retooling of standing FISA legislation (initiated after nixon - remember? oh, sorry, that'd be looking back) let AT&T, Comcast, and the rest off the hook for breaking the law. this served two purposes. 1. obviously, no class action suits or prosecutions of the telecoms would ensue and 2. no class action suits or prosecutions of the unitary sovereign, er, executive, can now come up either. You see, retroactively speaking, no laws were broken. problem solved.
speaking of the unitary sovereign, what are the first three words of the Constitution of the United States of America? why doesn't a Constitutional scholar know this?
anyway, joe-joe, obama voted for the retrofit of FISA and it was the deal-breaker, the spell-breaker, the wake-up call for me on obama. almost immediately after the FISA vote, news reports glowed on about the masses of contributions from, go figure, the telecoms. and if the telecoms liked this guy, well, gosh darn it, it was good enough for wall street too. and here we are, my fellow americans.
i wrote and warned about this then online to the ever hoping hopeful. some berated me. i almost hoped for mccain to win - that might at least speed up the downward spin of the republic enough wake up the beast. for some of us who have been paying attention since reagan was gov of CA, it seems for the first time in u.s. history we leave our brethren no better off or informed.
Sheesh!
"disappointed voter" and others like him are obviously Republicans posing as disappointed Democrats. You can tell when he says "And I WILL give money to his political opposition".
I think you pretty much nailed the commentariat on this thread and what seems like most on RS. I would add PUMA's and anarchists and maybe one or two nihilists. Sad to see really.
Sam, your list is long and those things piss me off as much as anyone else. I think the Dems in congress are as much to blame, though. California, GET RID OF PELOSI already! I think you want to put it all on Obama but it's not that cut-and-dried.
Look, you're never getting your boy in office. Not until the Hill has a good amount of independents or green party members or whatever. A couple independents isn't going to get it done. At least it seems to me that's how it's going to have to happen. I'm a big fan of Bernie Saunders but where are the rest like him? If they're out there why haven't they won election? Time will tell, but perhaps the country is shifting and more progressive will get the opportunity. But a lot of things will have to change for REAL CHANGE to take place - and not just in D.C.
[...] 19 Apr 09 | Raw Story [...]
hourglass writes:
" ... after the FISA vote, news reports glowed on about the masses of contributions from, go figure, the telecoms. and if the telecoms liked this guy, well, gosh darn it, it was good enough for wall street too. and here we are, my fellow americans. "
And there He is, the glib goose, trying to get the Cubans to bite on a nice poison pill of US telecomm. More pathetic, infuriating, or just plain funny?
Fine...so when some American Justice League comes outta nowhere and picks off the neocons- "we aren't looking backward" can now be used as an affirmative defense for the assassination of those who committed treason, right?
CaptainCrunch writes:
"... we aren't looking backward" can now be used as an affirmative defense for the assassination of those who committed treason, right?"
It's the Chicago Way. History, justice, US law AND the UN Charter are sooo yesterday, the "stale debate" that burdened the planet before the coming of Quetzalcoatl, er, Axelrod.
I wholeheartedly endorse the sensible policy of Herr Obama and Herr Emmanuel. Vee need more such men vitt such attitudes. I alvays believed in live and let live.
Remember Bolton, Bush's appointee to the UN? He said the UN was quaint, or at least unimportant. Now Obama ignores the UN and then defies the UN regarding the torture crimes. Obstructs the restoration of the constitution... I believe the change occurred when he met with Bush in the pretense of showing the new president the White House.
You know, most progressives preferred Dennis Kucinich. We all feel like inconsequential pawns in some powerbrokers' little joke against humanity as they swill in their booty. Let's do what we can. If needed, we can bring a better candidate forward for 2012. At this point, I would like to hear what Howard Dean thinks- and a few others.
Is Obama isolating himself from every dissenting opinion or not?
Massive public protests are the only thing that will get action on the war crimes of the Bush administration. We managed to elect Obama; now he needs a great, big kick in the behind to get him moving.
I'm not ready to flush Obama after 90 days. In fact, maybe my hope is more resilient because I wasn't dumb enough to buy into the media narrative that he was the most liberal senator. EVERY democrat is "The most liberal" in every race. Gore was, Kerry was, Clinton was, Obama was. It's most entertaining when it's not only patently false but when they're saying the same thing about multiple people at the same time.
Obama is centrist. I don't believe he's not out for partisan blood.
That said, my liberal heart still hopes that he's a craftier politician than he's generally credited with. I'd like to believe that he's using prosecution as a bargaining chip. It'll be interesting if we see Republican opposition fail to coalesce on some issue of serious import.
I'm hoping that Obama turns around and nails them after he's won the current battle(s).
So far, for all their rage, the Republicans have been pretty impotent. I don't think they're doing any favors for the Dems though. Maybe the Coleman obstructionism will just evaporate at some point soon. ;-P
It's a war crime to knowingly not prosecute known war criminals!
He will NOT get my vote a second time.
flakr writes:
"EVERY democrat is "The most liberal" in every race. Gore was, Kerry was, Clinton was, Obama was."
Jimmy Carter was the Last Democrat. Kerry -- who's responsible for the elevation of the mobster Obama from the obscurity He'd so thoroughly earned, sabotaged both Howard Dean and John Edwards.
Just being "for" abortion doesn't necessarily make a person "liberal" -- behind the Cheshire-Cat grin, Obama's about as rigid and authoritarian as they come: just listen to Him sometime, if you can stand it..
It's pretty simple actually. Failing to prosecute Bush officials for their heinous war crimes is an admission that Obama and his crew will do all they can do preserve the power of the imperial presidency and to avoid being prosecuted themselves at some later day. I mean, do you really think that they've banned these harsh interrogation tactics? Of course not. They're just using better PR. Prosecuting Bush et al. now would open the door for members of his administration to be prosecuted years in the future.
Didn't I tell you guys!!
Could have voted Kucinich...Ron Paul..any third party BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Had to vote CFR banker owned candidates as usual. Just like Lemmings to the slaughter.
Ya reap what you sow, now war criminals will be set free and now its precident.
Jake
I voted for Hillary. Now I feel vindicated. The predictors were all there that Obama was a spineless grasshopper.
(It would have been the same, they are CONTROLLED CFR politicians. They work for the same people.
Let my put out a scenario of what would happen if Obama pursued prosecution of Bush officials with his DOJ. It would suck every molecule out of the political atmosphere in this country and would consume his administration and every other policy initiative he has planned. It would go on for years with discoveries and delays and virtually nothing else would get done. Things like universal health care, and every other progressive legislation would flounder in the wake.
And then, the same good progressives would be hounding Obama for not passing their expected progressive legislation. Bush and his Capo's were elected by the people, not by Obama. Why should he throw away his presidency on something he didn't cause? He is releasing what info he can and recent revelations have proved he is willing to do this. Why not let the peoples reps in congress take the lead in first finding out what happened, and then deciding what to do?
Public opinion and history will be the judge of the people behind the use of torture in this country. Prosecutions at this time will bog the country down at a time when we cannot afford to be bogged down. Release ALL the information about what happened and who ordered it and I'm content to leave it to history to judge them for the time being. They'll all have the word 'torturer' on their tombstones for all to see. Maybe a few years down the road we go after the people that formulated the policy, but now is not the time and Obama and his staff know it. I find what they did to be horrendous and a blight on this countries history and am FURIOUS that it even happened, but I agree with the way Obama is handling this so far. They are not ruling out future prosecutions either despite what some in the Administration are saying at this time.
Comrade Stuck
It took them no time flat and without evidence being heard to get rid of Blagovich..they have TONS of evidence on Bush Cheney and CO...
Give me a break.
[...] by DrSausage [link] [8 [...]
Gee, I wonder why Rahm Emanuel, A FORMER ISRAELI SOLDIER, is advising Obama against prosecuting torturers. They don't prosecute them in Israel, which he represents. In fact, why is this devious fucker (he's famous for strong-arming votes in the Congress) in the White House at all?
Somebody will surely call me anti-Semitic, and actually if they did, so what? But we should not have a soldier from a foreign country in the White House.
Blago was impeached and he is a Governor, and one man, and not the former President of the US. And he hasn't even been tried yet, which is what we are talking about here. And if you think trying a governor of a state is in any way comparable to prosecuting the Bush Administration, then you need to give me a break. Hell, the discovery and sorting out all the classified stuff would take years alone. Congress can readily get this material now that a dem is in the WH. They can get to the bottom of things much faster with a commission, and can start by granting lower downs immunity for telling the truth, working their way up until the TOP RATS are cornered.
If you start hell bent with prosecution, then everybody clams up and lawyers up and you have 10 years of stalemate.
Calm the hell down, everybody.
Obama's playing good cop. He wants Congress to play bad cop. Even if he tried to block Congress from pursuing prosecution, he couldn't, given separation of powers. And the right wing wouldn't be able to focus their attacks on Obama.
Obama has to right a sinking ship. He can't also deal with a mutinous ex-crew right now.
Pressure Congress to appoint a special prosecutor. Don't let up. And realize Obama plays chess, not checkers.
It's clear that the Democratic Party is, at best, only marginally better than the Republican. I used to think of alternative parties at vote wasters at best and spoilers at worst, but now it's clear that they are the only hope of reversing what I fear is the terminal decline of our country.
If principled conservatives would run in red districts as Libertarians and principled progressives in blue districts as Greens, with an agreement not to compete in the same districts and thereby split the vote, and an agreed common agenda, they could gain enough congressional seats in 2010 to deny either major party the majority and thereby influence the direction of the country. It would require a lot of grassroots effort to overcome the financial advantage of the well funded (= thoroughly bribed) incumbents, but if people are angry enough it could be done. And after two years of this charismatic neocon administration and spineless Congress, I'm sure they will be.
Unless he reverses this outrageous decision, Obama has forfeited his legitimacy as President. He is now an accessory to war crimes and crimes against humanity by not prosecuting those who have perpetrated such crimes in the name of our nation. This is shameful beyond measure, and will accelerate the erosion of respect for America by friend and foe alike. It will also keep the self-healing process from going forward, dooming the American people to a period of unresolved damage for potentially generations. Perhaps someone has something on Obama, and he is, in effect, being blackmailed. His stated goal of 'looking forward only' rather than resolving the past is stupidly simplistic and illogical. He should extend his quasi-pardon to all criminals who have been punished for far less severe crimes than those of the previous administration.
At any rate, I no longer consider Obama my president.
At any rate, I no longer consider Obama my president.
somehow I doubt you ever did.
guess if we want truth, justice and the American way, we'll have to shut down the cities until they capitulate.
But we won't. However, they might wake up after the midterms if we hit them hard enough. Contested primaries and Green Party candidates people, until the dems get a frikkin' clue.
That's what happened in New Zealand I'm told. After a Bush-analog incompetent free-trader wrecked the country they got center left, winged on the real left by the Greens, and the right collapsed.
There's still hope, if we strongly oppose Obama's centrism from the progressive, justice-oriented, compassionate, green left we could get our country back yet.
rhetoricus wrote:
"Obama has to right a sinking ship. He can't also deal with a mutinous ex-crew right now."
Hmmmmm. Your messiah Obama can't do more than one thing at a time like most people have to do? He's unable to multi-task like the rest of us?
I swear, the messiah excuse makers are something else! Obama HELPED TO CREATE this sinking ship that you're talking about by his yes votes for the Bush Crime Family. Have you never looked at his Bush-accomplice voting record from the senate?
You wrote: "Pressure Congress to appoint a special prosecutor. Don't let up. And realize Obama plays chess, not checkers."
Congress would implicate THEMSELVES in any criminal investigations. That's why nothing of substance will be done about this. Also, people have been "pressuring congress" since 2000 and you see the state of things don't you? Since 2000, when has the congress paid any attention to what The People have said?
so many obombya apologists and so little time. the poster above me is right,
the reason nothing will be prosecuted is that so many in the congress aided and abetted in this by their silence and nods of consent (pelosi, harmon, reid, et-al).
to rhetoricus, no offense buddy, but you really need to polish your belly button so you can see. rectal cranial optalitis is a serious problem for the obombya cult, some are pulling on their ears and getting free, but you sir, are still in need of a good fart to free your mind from the obombanation you dufus' elected.
so many obombya apologists and so little time.
Dumbass PUMA!
Obama et al just ended up on my spam list. Oh well. It was only worth 2K to him. He's always got his corporate buds to fall back on.
Comrade Stuck,
Have another sip of your intoxicating "Dem Team" Obamabot/Obamapologist kool-aid. Someone should start a rehab program for the messiah Obama cult disciples.
http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/
If it were Bush, you messiah disciples would be screaming about it (as you should be). But because messiah Obama is from your "Dem Team" that makes it different in your "mind." No criticism. Just make excuses and apologies for him. That's your thinking. The hypocrisy of the Obamabots is astounding. Why in HELL do you Obama excuse makers feel you need to make excuses and apologies for these millionaire politicians? I don't understand that, other than it's the "Dem Team" mentality that you've been indoctrinated with (just like Repugs are indoctrinated with the "Repug Team" mentality). Both are pathetic.
damned straight I'm PUMA and PROUD to be! better that, than being so loyal to the backstabbing prick DINOCRATS that support scum like Pelosi, Harmon, Reid and all the rest of the GOP LITE (actually, they are one and the same as the GOP filth!)
so yeah, I'm proud to be PUMA! It means; "knowing the democratic part and the republican party are NOW MERGED, means NEVER HAVING TO SAY YOU'RE MOTHERFUCKING SORRY"
what I am sorry for, is that so many dildo's like Comrade Stuck, are still milking the teat of the corrupt filthy DINOCRATS who helped sell this nation down the shitter.
once everyone realizes the crap the two parties do in front of the camera or microphone is solely KABUKI THEATER shit, you then start to figure out that they both have conspired to sell every one of us down the river.
just look at Obombya's appointments. Mossad agents, and bank crooks, every single one of them. not a single 'real' person of the whole nine yards, and certainly not a single person who could pass a fucking polygraph test about criminal behavior and treason, either!
so, Comrade Stuck, go fuck yourself! As mister natural used to say; "DO IT TODAY!" (you'll love yourself for it)
Sam
Piss off PUMA numnut.
Obama has now joined the criminal club of Bush , Cheney , Rumsfeld and others that think our constitution is nothing but a D. piece of paper and they are above the law and can do as they d... well please..
Obama no longer has my support and I believe I will leave the democrat republican party and join the Independent..
I am ashamed of Obama , the democrats because they have become the same criminal administration as was voted out,,, so the only change has been the names of the criminals..
That must have been the Change Obama was talking about because the criminal activities are still alive and doing business as usual and his campaign promises are just what Hillary stated ,,,, ONLY A SPEECH...
Just what organization or group is really running our elected officials and our country...
The war in Iraq is still alive and active.......
The illegal spying is still in place and if anything getting stronger....
The crimes of Bush like Treason-/--Torture--/-illegal signing statements../..the welfare tax breaks given to the elite are still in place and Obama has forgot his promises about reversing it...
The military budget if growing in leaps and bounds while our social programs are being cut by leaps and bounds...
We are still giving our tax money the the Global Corporate Empire ,,, while our manufacturing plants and jobs are being sent overseas.
Our tax money is being distributed around the world to everyone except the tax payers from which it comes from.
Obama and the democrats are no different then Bush/Cheney and the republicans. Only their talk and BS is different..
Corporations wanted things the way they were before slavery ,, and they have received it beyond their wildest dreams..
If you believe these democrats believe in the democrats policies then why are they pasting Global Corporate Empire's polices and slapping the middle class in the face..
Pete, couldn't have said it better myself. You're right the fuck on! good summary!
I am a democrat and have condemn Obama and the democrats for their "republican-corporate policies".. But the republicans have kissed Bush and his criminal mob's a... for his 8 years of dictatorship and criminal actives..
This Global Empire has reached it goal and that is to divide Americans so they could coup this government and destroy any hope of this country being run of the people ,, by the people and for the people... To add insult to injury them have even borrow money on a credit card in our name to give as a parting gift to this Global Empire...
Personally the American citizens no longer have the balls to take our country back..
Israel has more input government policies and receives our tax money for their social programs while they cut our social programs to the bone..
Remember ever candidate for office of our government has to meet with the Jewish organizations like AIPAC to get their approval before they can be elected..
Why do you believe that immunity was given for illegal spying ,,, Israel's had their telecom companies spying in all 50 states and Washington and also they are incorporated in our intelligent agencies...
Since when is a president above the Judicial system. When did the executive branch become the law of the land. What makes the Obama Administration think that they have the only say on investigations and formal prosecution decisions. Who made this man KING. He is turning out to be equally as guilty by association as those he is protecting.
There are millions of Americans that find this disturbing and are demanding that the seperation of powers be exercised properly. This is not constitutional; what a ridiculously pathetic president this guy is turning out to be.
Obama has two problems--first, the Repuglicans have threatened to block everything he wants/needs to do to try and save the country from financial and ecological disaster if they prosecute the Bush gang, and second, top Democrats, starting with that idiot Pelosi, including as well Rockefeller, were briefed on many, if not all, of the torture methods being employed by Bush, as well as the illegal spying being conducted on the American people, another crime for which there will be no prosecutions.
What a pathetic, shameful country we've become. Both parties are utterly corrupt.
Comrade Stuck wrote:
"Sam, Piss off PUMA numnut."
------------------------------
Just so you know, the term is spelled numBnut (with a "B"), not the way you have it.
It's a matter of attention to detail, just like BEFORE backing a candidate (such as your messiah Obama) checking the details of his Bush-accomplice voting record in the senate. Did you ever do that?
After the Fisa vote, when I read that Obama named Emanuel as his Chief of Staff just minutes after the election, I began wondering. What does this mean? Then all the other followed, all the left overs from the other administrations, all the artisans of the corrupt bankrupt society we have become. Then the courting of the extreme right-wingers while declaring he wants to hear all voices. The only voices left out were those who brought him to office. The progressive voices.
Now this, this shame that will remain smeared upon us like the bloodied hands of Lady Macbeth. There is hardly a continent that does not bear the scars of our depravity. This has been going on under cover for decades- now it is out in the open for all to see and being proclaimed part of what we are.
Democrats are far worse at coverups and lately cant be trusted to open a jello snackpack without some crime lurking under it. So yeah people hated bush. Im a conservative and thought bush was a moron and a liberal. But get over it. Or the next administration will be prosecuting the obama administration for turning our country into a communist cesspool. Do we really want recriminations or are we up for fair elections?
Bush kept us safe for 8 years from further attack and I'll give him that much. But guess what, not only would i not prosecute the CIA interrogators, I would give them a frickin medal. Those soulless killers in gitmo deserved far harsher treatments than what they got. Our Navy seals and Army Rangers go through more torture then those turds ever will. And yet the stupid and the ignorant in this country want to coddle the killers.
fine.. bush made it 8 years.. lets see how long the administration of appeasers can keep us safe. Since obama just gave away all the interrogation methods the CIA uses... our enemies don't have a single thing to fear now when they try to kill Americans. I think we all just got made a little less safe.
name wrote:
"Bush kept us safe for 8 years from further attack and I'll give him that much."
Sigh. I would remind you that 9/11 and the anthrax attacks occurred on Bush's watch and in many people's minds (including mine), 9/11 was an INSIDE JOB to accomplish the Bush regime's despicable Project For The New American Century agenda. So for anyone to say he supposedly kept us "safe" is complete nonsense.
Remember the " Changes we can believe in " ? You might as well forget about that one,as it has been replaced with the realistic version of " the more we change . . . the more we stay the same ". . . . just the way Israel wants it to be by controlling
every move of these Jew-nited states.
they're clearly not really interested in the kind of Change that i want on these foreign policy issues.
this also opens the way for other nations and other groups in other nations to begin bringing charges of war crimes against all the Bush era politicos. as the UN warned obama, they have the responsibility to prosecute under treaties that the US has signed, so in fact obama is setting himselffor charges of complicity in these war crimes and also for obstruction of justice. we will see what kind of place the world is in the next few years.
I don't think any bush-cheney administration officials are going to be travelling much overseas in the years to come.
oh well they can always come here to mexico to vacation
It's the last straw. Obama's embrace of Rahm Immanuel, Larry Summers and Tim Geithner mean that a) justice and the legal requirement to seek justice, will not be obtained and b) the fiscal policy will benefit the banksters and fail to solve the problem.
Obama is looking more like just another cog in the wheel. A wheel that is the same crap--the repugnicans being at the bottom mired in the ooze....they're worse.
We have no choices left. And Congress is a despicable pile of ....
It's all perfectly fine to be the armchair politician and statesman from the safety of your bedroom sitting around in your underwear, but the fact is Obama must exist in the real world.
Change occurs in increments, the world wouldn't tolerate a Ron Paul or a Ralph Nader as President. Admit it or not, but Obama is the correct balance of change that we need.
If you compare Obama's first 100 days from that of any other President, it's easy to see that we've undergone a radical transformation. Change is necessary, but must be tempered.
Obama's presidency in my opinion has been near perfect. The decision to move on from the Bush darkness is just the latest example.
The proof in Obama's method is his high marks by people everywhere in the face of so many problems facing the world and the nation.
God bless him, and give him the strength to continue.
I BELIEVE IT IS TIME FOR A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE i WOULD LEAN TOWARDS THE CONSTITUTION PARTY OR LIBERTARIANS (THEY'RE NOT LIBERALS) AS THEY WILL BRING BACK THE RULE OF LAW. VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBANTS THAT HAVE NOT AT LEAST TRIED. PERFORM THE RESEARCH.
IT IS THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE "TOGETHER" DESTROYED AMERICA! THEY ARE ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY!
tHE BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK (COMPRISED OF 5 JEWS AND TWO ZIONISTS ALLIES) ARE RUNNING OUR PRESIDENTS THROUGH THEIR CFR VEHICLE, THIS MUST STOP!
GO TO http://WWW.RONPAUL.COM AND SUPPORT HIS BILL WHICH HAS 55 CO-SPONSORS TITLED THE FEDERAL RESERVE TRANSPARENCY ACT H.R. 1207 TODAY!!! TIME IS RUNNING OUT. YOU WANT TO SEE WHO'S REALLY RUNNING THINGS AND LET THE SKELETONS OUT OF THE CLOSET, ITS TIME TO HELP IN THE FIGHT.
END THE DEMOCRATIC/REPUBLICAN DYNASTY!
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT TO START CONVERTING PEOPLE TO GO THIRD PARTY.
ZARDOZ SAID:
"Obama's presidency in my opinion has been near perfect. The decision to move on from the Bush darkness is just the latest example."
What kinda dope are you on? Maybe you should share it with the rest of us.
Obama has done NOTHING but followed through with Bush policies and is even aiding and abetting his criminality!
If the rest of America is as stupid and gullible as you we are truly sunk!
Wake up dude and do some research!
First start out by reading the Bill of Rights and when you do so, understand that they were meant to be understood in their simplest form. No lawyers or scholars were required. No interpretors were required either your government just decided that they required interpretations (through the courts) to undermine them for the sake of revenues.
Read them. they mean what they say. There are no "buts" in the Bill of Rights!
Obama is just as much a criminal as his predacessors for aiding and abetting their criminality. Meanwhile the nonviolent doe smoker down the street, (which seemingly could be you), gets popped and thrown in jail as no one will look the other way for him!
So, if someone was murdered and the killer was on the loose for a decade, then evidence appears and the killer is finally revealed, do we just stop "looking in the rear view mirror?"
THIS IS HORSESHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!
YuvbinDuped,
RIGHT-ON!
I read the drivel written by ZARDOZ and can only conclude that that person has not been paying attention whatsoever to what Obama has been doing, such as his droning and killing innocent people in Pakistan beginning the day after his coronation. That's something Bush would do. I can only conclude that ZARDOZ agrees with the killing of innocent people in Pakistan for US imperalistic goals.
I have read many posts elsewhere by people just like ZARDOZ. They struggle to make excuse after excuse for their messiah Obama. When I ask them to give examples of why they genuflect to their messiah, they can't do it. Instead, they speak in very vague terms just like ZARDOZ. What's going on with many Obamabots is that once their messiah was elected they stopped paying attention and now they serve as mere cheerleaders for him, even though they can't give details of what the man's doing.
Obama was getting "highmarks" at the beginning from many people around the world, but from the credible sources I've read, his "honeymoon" is over for many people around the world because they don't approve of what he's done so far. Unlike ZARDOZ, many people around the world do indeed pay close attention to what messiah Obama is doing. Unlike ZARDOZ, they don't blindly serve as a cheerleader for the man just because his last name is Obama.
ZARDOZ: Obama is continuing the Bush agenda (as some of us knew he would based on his Bush-accomplice voting record in the senate), and you would know that if you had been paying close attention. Did you even examine his voting record in the senate? (Most people didn't. They couldn't be bothered. The "hope" and "change we can believe in" manure was sufficient for them...the sheep).
You know that word 'Justice'? Let's just erase that from the dictionary. This is a HUGE disappointment.
I guess as long as you suck David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger's "Dick", you can get away with everything. Fuck Richard B Cheney, Halliburton, Bechtel, Lockheed and the whole military industrial complex!
Good night and good luck!
All those here who are surprised shouldn't be. Obama is not doing this out of weakness, fear or refusal to stand up to any establishment. It's because he knows he may want to torture people himself someday and doesn't want to leave a precedent of declaring it prosecutable. No president wants any dimunition of any power established by any predecessor. The only cure would have been for Congress to go after Bush and Co. in 2006-7. They didn't then and they won't now. The real enablers here were and are Pelosi and Reid. We needed statesmen and we got cheap political operators.
I told you Obama is a worthless piece of shit! He just proved it. People, it still won't be too late in 2012 to put a person in the Oval who will do what's Right, not just for his or her own political well being, but for the country. The statute of limitations never ends on WAR CRIMINALS. Obama is as much a war criminal as Bush and Company.
Rahm:
Israel-first, dual-national, AIPAC paid?
Stating that there will be no prosecutions is aginst international law by treaty, and consequently, against American law. If this President has committed a crime, then he should face impeachment, no matter what good he has done.
It would have been nice if Obama had taken the legal high road and moved against the criminal activity of the Bushits, but so what? CONGRESS must act, it is within their responsibilities to investigate. So hold Congress accountable. You do not need to limit your communications to your own Senator or Congressperson.
The Obama administration has made many positive moves in other arenas, now expect Congress to do more than just follow, expect it to lead!
Watergate did not come to the light of day because of a Presidential Administration. Seek out journalists to keep digging. Pursue your Congressional Representative with a deluge of communications - EXPECT THEM TO LEAD!
[...] Raw Story | Jeremy Gantz | Monday, April 20, 2009 [...]
Sam, you are a racist piece of anti-semitic dung. A little boy with a keyboard and it is beyond me why Rawstory allows you to post your hate speech. Go fuck yourself, really you mindless idiot.
Surprise!
I don't believe the United States to be a democracy. While I respect what other people believe, to me this country is currently in that little twilight zone between monetary democracy and fascist dictatorship. I don't think Obama is any different than Bush, I highly doubt McCain would have done anything differently. I mean really, these two guys were unheard of before 2007. McCain and Obama both came out of fucking no where and told people that they were the best people to 'lead' this country, and people believed them. I'm pretty sure any sensible and informed person in the US knows that the American election process if completely fucked up so I'll just come right out with it.
Big fucking surprise.
[...] open to the possibility of prosecution of high-level Bush officials: It ain’t gonna happen. full story (No Ratings Yet) Related posts:Pelosi Open to Prosecution of Bush Administration [...]
Emanuel: War criminal.
This is VERY disappointing. I'll try to look for a bright side: Suppose he had acknowledged that what he said didn't eliminate the top of the Bush administration and the lawyers who tried to spin the torture into something legal, were up for prosecution? Coming from the President, wouldn't that be the same thing as pushing for investigation and prosecution? In my despondency, I'm working awfully hard here, kids........
Maybe it is just going to have to come from elsewhere. Don't forget, too, that there are probably a number of Democrats in Congress who were briefed and did nothing, making them culpable, as well. How are they going to push for prosecution. There is no statute of limitations on this kind of crime. We have to keep working on investigation and prosecution.
Gug
The alleged officials not pursing prosecution and condoning the many violations by former and current officials are committing a multiplicity of crimes themselves, including Title 18, Section 4 (misprision of felony).
The true reason they will not pursue prosecution is that the end result should be convictions for treason, which carry only one penalty following conviction - death.
Every official, whether elected or appointed, that did not immediately begin actions against those that committed horrendous crimes against people, including complicity in genocide of Afghanis and Iraqis, committed treason (war was never declared, as mandated by the Constitution). And they continue to commit treason as the lack of pursuit during the demented bush's administration and the current Obama mob bunch is in violation of their oaths of office.
Of course they would not prosecute as the fall-out would reach them and any people that believed they would pursue conviction really have no idea of what is going on.
When the people fear government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is freedom. And, of course, officials, including the local de facto government officials, have no reason to fear the people because we have for over a century given them no reason to fear us.
ofthepeople@cvalley.net
Obama, as was to be expected, has announced no action will be taken against those who perpetrated this evil. This, in my regard, makes him just as responsible for what occurred as those who authorized and performed it. It’s not enough to give lip service against such human rights abuses. If one truly rejects their use, they would seek accountability and justice. But justice doesn’t appear to be something Obama places any value upon whatsoever.
I invite you to read:
The Memos Don’t “Shock the Conscience” of Obama
http://christinesmith.us/wordpress/2009/04/16/the-memos-dont-shock-the-conscience-of-obama/
I think this is just another lesson on how the country is really set up. There are the people and then there is " them ". I don't know why the Republicans and their followers spend so much time demonizing Obama when he is already on board. What is the point of the exercise anyway? Do Republicans just create more debt more quickly or is something else that I am not aware of yet?
Master Debater
Then lets not prosecute ANY crimes since they all took place in the past (by definition - duh!) We should just look forward from now on.
I'm beyond disappointed. This will hurt Obama's potential for a second term. He's lost a lot of us with this bad decision.
Obama made the right decision - He put out the facts for the historical record- 'bush was a douch-bag' & war criminal.
Obama's got better things to do than hold show trials. Bush would be back to 50% approval in no time.
he lost my vote. 35 year old white man who voted for the first time last year - for Obama. He will never get my vote again. I'm ashamed of my govt.
Yes, it is totally hypocritcal NOT to prosecute.
But understand that Obama has something a whole lot bigger to worry about (in addition to the economy) and that is the coming pole shift.
Watch! One day everything will suddenly make sense. Why Bush invaded Iraq (he thought the pole shift would happen in May 2003), why the goose that lays the golden eggs was killed which is our economy (same reason, pole shift was supposed to happen so we would never have found out), why Bush insisted the earth is not heating up, it ALL leads back to the pole shift.
The few people who are saying what I am saying here are considered crack pots now. Later all the talking heads wlll be scrambling to connect the dogs that they are NOT connecting now.
And the excuse that the people will panic if they find out and are allowed to prepare in time, is total hog wash. It is the power elite who want to keep the average person in the dark as long as possible because the power elite ONLY care about themselves. But those very same people, the elite, will be the last ones getting assistance, so the joke is ultimately on them!
[...] BUSH OFFICIALS WILL NEVER BE PROSECUTED OBAMA NOW WANTS $83 B FOR WARS OBAMA HIRES TRIPLE CANOPY (ANOTHER PRIVATE ARMY LIKE BLACKWATER) FOR IRAQ OBAMA CAMPAIGNED HARD TO PROTECT HABEUS CORPUS, BUT NOW… OBAMA QUIETLY SUPPORTING BUSH’S WIRETAPPING [...]
If I understand correctly, deliberately choosing not to prosecute war crimes is itself a war crime. I didn't know Obama wanted to be a war criminal.
I will not vote for Obama again and I hope there will be opposition from within the party in 2012, Emanuel's words are a commendation of the two tiered system of "justice" we have it this country. I include how the Obama DOJ decision on the Siegelman case in forming my view. When 44 out of 50 state attorneys, of both parties mind you, call for a review of the Siegelman case but the AG refuses to go there, I find it profoundly disturbing.
Just one more theory that blackmail is behind this policy of not prosecuting the Bush II regime.
Gnocci:
You said it all.
I sense a long, hot summer in America......
Comrade Stuck said:
Sam, you are a racist piece of anti-semitic dung. A little boy with a keyboard and it is beyond me why Rawstory allows you to post your hate speech. Go fuck yourself, really you mindless idiot.
Comrade Stuck, thank you! I don't know if Sam's anti-semitic but me thinks he's a racist. Or a Republican hack.
Did Obama lose your support for a second term?
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=5083
[...] Read more. Related Posts:Why Obama should be lauded for releasing torture memosSCORES of legal expert say, "PROSECUTE BUSH/CHENEY!"Obama's OK with this??Spanish judge keeps torture probe aliveNadler calls for special prosecutor re: BushCo's torture program SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title:'', url:''}, {button:true} ); Tweet This! [...]
Did not the Nazi prison guards do what was right according to Nazi laws and regulations, but in reality are considered atrocities by the rest of the world? Are we still not seeking Nazi war criminals through the courts and countries? To not even bring these people up to trial to even see if they done wrong is a crime in itself. After Nazi Germany fell, according to Obama, we should have not pursued any of the Nazi leaders or guards because that would have been looking back. Even now, today the suspected Nazi guard in Cleveland is being treated as a criminal, is not that looking back to a dark part of our history?
So if I go out and kill another or just torture them 183 times in a month and I dont get found out for a year or 2, then I should be scott free because we shouldnt go back, just look forward.
I say bring the Bush leadership to trial to see if what they did is crminal, let our laws decide. If we do not do this, then in the future it will be fair game for future leaders to do the same with out worry of being prosecuted for it.
Pack your bags and leave America before it turns into a blood bath.
These criminal squatters (of both parties) in D.C. aren't capable of being honest about anything, ever. They are there to loot you the best they can, and help their masters do it even better. Those in Washington are truly those that "can't", so they enable the big abusers (look at the billionaires created over the last year while the GLOBAL economy fell apart).
The game is so rigged now that the Aristocrats are shitting in each others mouths and laughing at us as we stand paralyzed, watching on in horror like some child seeing someone being savaged for the first time.
No, the "nation of law" won't prosecute "war criminals" because "lawyers suggested it was ok to break the law".
And this all ties back to one day.. one day that has never been properly investigated, hundreds of questions have gone unanswered, and the joke of a commission that looked into it was run by a 100% partisan player for those accused of wrong doing today.. whitewash of the highest order. Sept. 11, 2001 saw 3,000 Americans die, and since our "leaders" have killed another 4200 in a country that had nothing to do with it, and wasn't a threat to us. Since then we've grown our government to massive size and destroyed all of the citizen's rights, all in the name of "that day".
America is not only dead, she's a grizzly ghoulish zombie tearing through hundreds of years of sacrifice and growth, all to appease the precious few who want to rule the world. .... and the sheeple sleep.
.
Obama's refusal to enforce the laws is a blatant violation of his oath of office wherein he swore to uphold the laws of the United States. If his opposition to "looking back," were applied equally to all people, no one would prosecuted for any crime.
This is unprincipled political expediency of the worst kind. As loathsome and contemptible as they are, Bush and his cronies merely broke the law temporarily. Obama and his cabal are erasing the law permanently.
It is too late to impeach Bush for malfeasance, but it's not too late to impeach Obama for willful nonfeasance.
can't believe it will go down like this.
suspend judgement.
the torrent of anger that will hit obama
if this (non prosecution of war criminals)
is true, is bigger than the one
that will hit him if he sits on his thumbs
and pretends america is hunky-dory.
obama's waiting for the backlash to build.
methinks other investigations are underway,
and he will have no other choice but to go
after the bastards. - remember, rove is about
to testify, and his "testimony" is almost certain
to garnish a public hearing, then a perjury trial.
turd blossum is in checkmate - any move he can
now make is doomed.
we live in interesting times.
despite the public face, i still believe obama's only
creds are that he IS change, and IS honest. once he
gives bush and his zombies a free pass, he brings on
the wrath of the world, including me.
i am not in america at present,
but i look back in anger -
how could anyone with a soul not!
obama will do the right thing.
let's hold back on the bush-level hate,
until he lets bush-level evil go unchecked.
sa
If there is enough public pressure from us, "We the People" these prosecutions will go forward. It takes more revelations of corruption and the truth behind the events on 911. When the people find out what really happened there will be justice and people like Emmanuel and the dems are complicit in the cover up of crimes against humanity!
It is time to stop waiting for justice from the" justice" department!
It is time to get back what Obama promised he would! OUR CONSTITUTION
It is not time to take to the streets so the gov. can beat the shit out of you and the media can make a fool of you, it is time to demolish the white house built by slaves and impeach any gov. official guilty of ANY crime!
It is time to be heard as a country! A country tired of Injustice, Prejudice, Cronyism, Capitalism.
It is time to DEMAND a NEW Continental Congress, not a new constitution!
" It is time to stop the dark forces controlling the world wealth and political power, that over a third of a century ago, planned a series of escalating false flagg events as a means of acquiring total global control." Dr.Wernher Von Braun 1974
Its time for someone like Ron Paul to stand up, start the paperwork, and give "We THE PEOPLE" our voice back!
popurls.com // popular today...
story has entered the popular today section on popurls.com...
I am saddened by the cowardice of Obama to right a wrong that will stain the US for eternity. I was elated to see him gain power and overcome injustices that have plagued America since it was founded. I guess he has come full circle in that he now excuses atrocities committed against those without power.
Shame on you Barak.
That's what you think Emanuel! Emanuel is a Mossad motherfucker!
We WILL see prosecution but it will include him as well. Viva la revolution!!
Meh...it just means he wants to do the same himself. OR perhaps he hopes he won't be prosecuted for his cockups.
Commenter 101 and his fellow lying gutless hacks.
GFY
You lying Obama trolls are the same vermin who covered for Pelosi when she protected Bush from impeachment.
Now your run your same games on covering for Bush torture again.
You low life scum pretend to be Democrats while you advocate for every single Bush policy of war torture and criminal enterprise.
Hooray! The USA is now officially a 3rd world soon-to-be-failed nation. All of the savages got what they wanted: a complete joke of a nation populated by idiots and run by Satan worshippers.
So now it's time to:
1) Accept reality: Obama is not the Messiah. Boohoo.
2) Arm yourself: buy lots of guns and don't forget the ammunition
3) Learn to be self-reliant: grow your own food, fix your own car, etc.
4) Get ready to fight for your lives: yes, they are coming after you next. Don't think because you voted D in the last election that you are safe, you're not; you are just another lamb to the slaughter to Them.
Get ready.
Fuck you, Rahm Emanuel. You fucking wormy piece of shit! You're the asshole that shoved NAFTA and free trade down everyone's throat.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rahm_Emanuel#Clinton_administration
Hey President Obama, why did you appoint this douchebag to be your chief of staff?
If the prosecution of Bush and his administration is not allowed to go forward, then Obama and his administration are responsible for obstruction of justice (and more). That's the law, and everyone of you representatives and appointees are sworn to uphold the law. Either we are a nation of laws or we are not, and torture is not something that we allow in this country (see the US Constitution, 8th amendment for starters). Ever. Period.
Can we prosecute the current administration for Obstruction of Justice?
It doesn't take long for the Democrats to revert to their pacifist ways that got them all thrown out of office in 2002.
We can't bring justice to the Bush administration or speak out against republicans for blatant torture and violation of law that would be to bold and scary thing to do...Better to just not look back...We don't want to make trouble.
One party's a bunch of sick animals the other party is just to timid and sweet.
If you're surprised by this I am a Nigerian prince and I stand to inherit THE SUM OF FIFTEEN MILLION DOLLARS...
Seriously, y'all need to take your medication and calm down.
There are some crazy bastards posting comments on here, and seriously, if you believe everything that you type, many of you should be on some serious antipsychotic drugs.
Obama has zero moral code and will do whatever the polls tell him to do. Right now the American people are not interested in prosecuting the Bush administration, they're interested in jobs, their 401k's and the future of their children. Right or wrong, that's the fact.
When things start turning around economically, if he's still president then, I guarantee that he'll start moving toward prosecution, especially if he thinks it will score political points. He doesn't give a rip about rule of law or the republic, he just cares about what keeps him in good stead with the polls.
The president is unnecessarily putting himself in a perilous position by coming down on any side of the question. It should not be a political question at all. It is simply a matter for the judicial system to handle. Either the US has an independent system of justice or it doesn't. If politicians can with impunity intervene in the dispensation of justice then you do not have a true justice system but one such as Iran has or Somalia. Is that what the US has been reduced to? A third world power with third world pseudo "justice"? If so the terrorists won the war! Please Mr. President do not interfere in the judicial system. It is obstruction of justice to do so and that is a very serious crime.
Actually shouldn't all the prisons be opened and the criminals freed. Their crimes took place in the past. No one looked forward for them.
The balance of justice never goes down for the rich and powerful.
Correction, Martha Stewart - but she is a woman.
Think of when Ford pardoned Nixon. That was as much as saying "he's guilty, but we forgive him." We do??? Ford may as well have shot himself in the head with that one. After that, no one took Ford seriously, and was trashed in '76. Anyone remember the Carter years?
If Obama does anything but "nothing", he torpedos himself and everyone standing for midterm elections.
If he pardon's Bush et al, Obama is dead in the water right then and there.
If he prosecutes, he gambles - what if he loses. Torturers go free for lack of evidence or the inability to make the case. Obama loses.
If he prosecutes and wins, the case can be made (albeit a shaky case) for 'vengeance' by the neo-cons. It'd never go away, and give the neo-cons a martyr, something or someone to rally against. Obama loses.
By making it public as he has done, he's keeping himself and his administration from being sucked into a no-win scenario. The evidence is public. The blame is in the memos. And the court of public opinion never forgets. Ask anyone over 40 if Nixon did it.
Bush, Cheney, all of them are permanently branded. The public knows the truth, and the neo-cons can't do it twice, not without a lot of scrutiny.
I was impressed to see how honest Obama's admin was releasing graphic details of the torture methods used under Bush,Cheney,Rove,Rumsfeld,Yu, etc.
the toothless UN has released statements saying that Obama is in violation of international law for refusing to prosecute those who carried out the acts of torture. But like the Geneva conventions, obeying orders does not cut it as an excuse to torture people. You cant say you were just obeying orders when you were beating prisoners, throwing them into walls (walling), dousing them w/ freezing water, drowning them (water boarding), or restricting their diet and sleep.
I do not mind the administration ignoring the UN despite our nations hypocrisy in ignoring UN mandates then using a BS UN resolution as grounds to invade countries. It threatens our nation's sovereignty to abide by these international bureaucracies. (obama admin is in favor of international gov on financial fronts.)
BUT failing to prosecute torturers on every level of government in this nation threatens the stability of our government and its integrity. If this level of torture is not grounds for prosecution then what crimes perpetrated by government do cross that thresh hold? this idea that government is never accountable to the people defies all sense of justice that is supposedly the great equalizer in free nations. this is a great tragedy that should not be accepted. Unfortunately the torture was not me or you so we wont be in the streets protesting these great abuses of humanity.
We're a part founder and signatory of the U.N. Either we're a part of it, and go with it, or we leave it and ignore it. Time to decide.
Well, not surprisingly, this administration is just as bad as the last one. It's time for ALL patriotic Americans to do everything in their power to obstruct the U.S. government, whenever and wherever they can.
"I was impressed to see how honest Obama's admin was releasing graphic details of the torture methods used under Bush,Cheney,Rove,Rumsfeld,Yu, etc."
"Honest"? Nonono: had it not been "released", the info would have leaked, or the release would have been compelled in court.
Remember that The One is spending today "reassuring" the CIA (after Michelle Obama spent a day last week making nice with DHS, just ahead of the Napolitano report suggesting, between the lines, that whoever opposes the "Obama" organization on taxes, bailouts, or earmarks is "right wing").
"Releasing" the torture info COULD be seen as a cautionary warning: "SEE what we can do?"
That people were water-boarded HUNDREDS of times in one MONTH kind of takes "torture" into the realm of organized sadism under color of authority.
That The One is "reassuring" the CIA about this is sickening. That He and Holder aren't prosecuting brands this horse-puckey administration, for all to see, as the international corporate outlaws they have ALWAYS been.
These clowns are lecturing CUBA about "political prisoners"?! Hahaha.
Tever writes:
"Hey President Obama, why did you appoint this douchebag to be your chief of staff?"
Well ... remember that The Won SAID, during the campaign, that "Israel is sacrosanct". Many Americans DON'T, regardless of the pronouncements of Harry Reid and others in the mobster "leadership" of the former "Democrats" in DC, actually support the military activities of Israel -- in whose military Emanuel served -- over the UN, the US Constitution, and so on.
Meanwhile, "the US" -- the Obama organization, that is -- is not ONLY flouting the UN on prosecuting torturers, but also high-hatting the racism conference because of Israel.
It is absolutely disgusting. If there ARE any Democrats who haven't signed on with the Jane Harmon-Alberto Gonzalez alliance, they'd better speak up soon, while they still have the remnants of a political party.
This totally sucks but I'm guessing "they" told Obama that if he tried to prosecute Bush, Cheney and the other war whores, "they" would either kill/torture him(Obama) or take out his family(Michelle & girls). If the torture memos are for real then I wouldn't put it past "them" to stoop to such levels of inhumanity.
Think about it.
I had faith in Obama, I have a lot less today.
Obama isn't change, he's business as usual.
Strike a victory for evil today. The government will continue to torture and the only people who get in trouble are the ones who refused to torture other humans.
Same awful car, new car salesman - Obama is either a fraud to when he asked us to install him, or is just doing what he's told by those who really installed him...
The very fact that his stance and motivations are now to aggressively conceal the murderous torture goons and the high crimes of the George W. Bush electoral thieveries and criminal administration et all, are enough to implicate him now, as being a criminal president too...
The madness stops when 911 truth is acknowledged and reported by the very same media monsters that are actively hiding the truth.
When the "news" is forced to report the facts about why our military and government allowed and/or engineered 911, then those who continue to be an accessories after the fact to the crimes will be arrested and prosecuted. This group of conspirators will include members of the mass media as well as government officials and members of the armed services and spy agencies.
To fail reporting and investigating this vital news: A peer-reviewed scientific study has unearthed active unexploded high-grade weaponized nano thermite, in the dust of the New York City crimes scene called ground zero.
All roads lead back to the events related to 911 - INVESTIGATE TORTURE, 911 and the Federal Reserve.
Video: scientists found nano-thermite in the dust from the World Trade Center.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Scientists_find_active_superthermite_in_WTC_0404.html
http://mwcnews.net/content/view/29921/42/
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM
Obama just gave in to the dark side of the 51percent of the corrupt Democrats who have something on him so they will not be prosecuted!
What ever happen to the precedence of the Nuremburg war trials and the international treaties we signed?
So much for a nation of laws when once again the USA aristocracy gets off again!
I see we only protect the 1%!
Next elections vote out every single politician no matter which party!
Publish everything a politician says and votes for in real time and have each politician defend it with real Data and not K street BS!
dm writes:
"I'm guessing "they" told Obama that if he tried to prosecute Bush ..."
Read MORE: not only was the water-boarding carried out HUNDREDS of times on a couple of people -- rather than the 30-35 seconds that was claimed -- prosecuting REPUBLICANS might make it necessary to prosecute a bunch of Democrats, including gang girls Jane Harmon and ... uh ... Nancy Pelosi (who abhors torture NOW, we're told, but was okay with it when it was "secret").
HOPE this issue that collapses BOTH parties of fat-cats and frauds, and spells f-i-n-i for the personality cult that propels the "Obama" organization.
Obama better start being concerned about what the rest of the public thinks instead of the Right because this torture (scandal) will not go away. The ACLU will request more documents and take Obama and the govt. to court if necessary. Hillary voters have a short memory though. Bill Clinton did nothing BUT try to appease the Right during his tenure in office. This is straight out of the Clinton playbook. Obama is the puppet and Hillary pulls the strings. Trust me.
Comrade Stuck wrote this stuff:
"Sam, you are a racist piece of anti-semitic dung. A little boy with a keyboard and it is beyond me why Rawstory allows you to post your hate speech. Go fuck yourself, really you mindless idiot."
------------------------------
Well that's intelligent. It speaks so well of the Obama supporters. But that doesn't at all answer the question I asked you so I'll ask it again:
Did you ever examine your messiah's Bush-accomplice voting record from the senate?
I'm sure they are hoping that we will eventually forget about all of it. I hope we don't.
WHY NOT? Is Bush above the law? NO! HANG HIM NOW!!!!! LETS RIOT!
assvomit wrote:
"I'm sure they are hoping that we will eventually forget about all of it. I hope we don't."
----------------------------------------
Well, unfortunately, I think most people could care less about this, if they even know anything about it. Many of the people who voted for Obama are no longer paying attention whatsoever. They don't have a clue what's going on. I know because I've talked with them. He's in there and that's all they care about. They just serve as cheerleaders for him even though they aren't paying attention to what he's doing. In the big scheme of things, it's just a small group that care about this---such as the people here---and the US Constitution. I suspect this news story will be gone very soon - by tomorrow or Wednesday.
Comrade Stuck is one of those drive by bloggers who pops into a forum, defends his assiwipe from the C.F.R. and Trialaterial Commission, in true Bilderberger fashion, and then takes off like a bat out of Obombanation when someone calls his bluff.
he can't spell 'trilateral' so he's going to attack those of us who see Obombya for exactly who he is, another fucking C.F.R. 'puppet' who, not unlike William Jefferson Clinton, helped destroy this nation under a mantel of; "I am a DEMOCRAT, how can you not support me???" line of crap.
well, a lot of water is under the bridge, and people have seen that this last round of 'bait and switch' that Obombaton pulled, is very odious and stinky, and nobody is buying this "no prosecution of AL-CIA-DA will happen on my watch" bullshit, which is coming right out of Rahm Emanuel's putrid face.
Emanuel runs the U.S., and the 'puppet' boy with the purple lips, he dare not open his mouth against the Israeli controller or he'll damned sure end up having an 'unfortunate accident' that the government will blame on another patsy like Timothy McVeigh or Osama Bin LLamameat.
right now the biggest fear the dinocrat son's and daughters of bitch's, like Harmon who just got exposed for her A.I.P.A.C. spying complicity, is that once the nation descends into a full-blown, all out 'revolution', there won't be any room on Bush's nice big fat 100,000 acre ranch down in Paraguay for her to camp out there, and she'll then be faced with tens of thousands of people in this country who, at that point, definitely are going to want to see a bunch of heads on pikes!
people, look for a lot of "oh, my boy Obombaton is going to play de LONG GAME, not do this piddlin round wit dat dere TORTURE and ILLEGAL WIRETAPPING and MASS MURDERING, we gotz udder bizness to attend to, like ripping the rest of you off for all of your pensions and savings as we rape and pillage the financial sectors of this nearly totally, fully bankrupted GULAG we want you to be SERFS IN!
screw Obombaton. Fuck this ziotard Comrade Schtick or whatever his name is, he's another apologist for another serial rapist named Barack H. Obama, his 'hero' I would surmise, by his steadfast defense of the turd.
Calling my dismay with this decision by Obama, all the apologists and "business-as-usual" crowd in the now very small (d) democratic party....anything less than visceral disgust... would be an understated it to the enth degree!
I was fed up for voting the democratic (or the lesser two evils") before getting swept up in the soaring rhetoric of someone now shaping up to be a warmed over Mocha Clinton... masquerading as a genuine agent of change. I too am done.
It's," Pelosi II, the Return. " When are these flaccid democrats going to wake up and realize the Republicans will meet all their generous benevolence with benign indifference at best, but more likely with obstinate obstruction. You won. Act like it damn it ! As usual the d's are at a gun fight with a knife. Maybe they'll grow back.
Have we forgotten the Reps. impeached Clinton for lying about a consensual affair? But holding the ever-pious Bush Mafia accountable for lying us into an immoral war, subverting the constitution, and killing thousands, bankrupting our nation...etc is, " Looking back instead of forward." Christ Almighty. I went to bed in America eight years ago, I sure like to wake up there some day soon! In words the of Alberto Gonzales, "I don't recall" but I may have fallen down the proverbial political rabbit hole, right is wrong and wrong is right, "but I can't be sure for sure.
All of you conspiratorialists and denialists....
Explain This.......
So... who'd he meet with?
Full press pool report:
Pool report #5
November 10, 2008
Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport
President Bush escorted President-elect Obama out of the Oval Office and walked him to down to the motorcade waiting on the south driveway.
(Josh Bolten separately escorted John Podesta to a car much further back in the motorcade.)
As they walked down the path, the president could be seen pointing things out to his soon-to-be successor.
They did not linger at the car and the motorcade took off at 3:45 p.m.
Michelle Obama left before her husband for her own separate schedule in Washington for the remainder of the day and will be traveling separately back to Chicago later tonight.
We're not being told what she will be doing in her extra time here, so we leave it to your imagination and reportorial instincts.
The motorcade encountered crowds of people gathered outside the White House as it made its way off campus and headed toward Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.
After arriving, President-elect Obama went into a previously unannounced "private" meeting at the airport's Fire Station 301.
We're not being told who it's with but it will last about an hour. Podesta was not in the meeting, or at least did not stay around in the meeting,
because he was spotted walking the other direction down the tarmac a few minutes after we arrived.
O Force One Frequent Flier Bonus Points to the first blogger to post 10 guesses about the identity of today's future cabinet secretary.
We're holding on the plane.
[...] source: Raw Story [...]
It's time to disobey illegal orders, my military friends...Bush gave you the first ones-now Operation Iraq the illegal version continues under the president who claimed he believed in the law. If veterans are on the 'terrorist watch list' all that means is they may decide the Constitution is something worth fighting for-right here, right now. You conned us Obama, I didn't think you were the messiah, but I did think you understood the law. Someone else pointed out Rahm was your first mistake. As was Hillary, Geithner, Summers and the saga continues. Think your Xe and Triple Canopy can take on the United States military? LOL I wouldn't bet your presidency on it...Mr One Term.
On one of the talk shows today, a point was brought up:
For those who are comfortable with Obama saying it's fine for the US to torture (which is what he is saying by his excusing it), if Iran for example were to torture some US citizens using waterboarding, body walling, torturing children to get answers out of their parents....if its fine for the US to torture then it's equally fine for the rest of the world to torture. Period. Otherwise, the people of the US look like damn hypocrites.
So messiah Obama is beginning a world of torture, wire tapping, illegal spying and moving wealth to the top. That's perfectly okay with the Obamabots?
So Obama's kept the spying going on, some of the fraudsters who caused/supported/facilitated the economic mess are peppered all throughout his administration and now he's decided not to prosecute the Bush administration for pretty blatantly obvious and well-documented crimes.
Can we stop with the "But it's only been (x amount of time), give him a chance."
Obama has already failed repeatedly, and we still have 3-and-a-half long years to go.
I understand Obama's reason. He feels, and he could be right, that to prosecute a former President and his administration in a country already divided down the middle politically could lead to its destruction when the right-wingnuts start shrieking and doing what they do best, stir up the knuckle-dragging masses. We all know how badly the Repugs want the destruction of the Union and have ever since their defeat in the civil war (yes I know Lincoln was a Republican, but during the 1930s the Repubs and Dems did a strange idealogical reversal so a Republican then would be a Democrat now).
My worry is what kind of message this will leave our kids. That intentionally lying the country into a war that caused over a million deaths of innocent people (innocent of 9/11, innocent of WMDs) is A-OK? That life is cheap? How will history judge this letting vicious people guilty of high crimes off scot-free? Additionally it will stew in all of us, that justice has not been done.
One last thing. The are Repugs that are using every tool at their disposal to try to kill Obama's chance for reelection in 2012. This issue is one of them. Repugs posing as disappointed Dems are rubbishing Obama at every opportunity hoping to divide and conquer. Progressives should be aware of that. Even with this disappointing issue, Obama is world's better than they are. Period.
Anyone who thought the Bush administration would be prosecuted was just fooling themselves. It wouldn't even be worth the time and effort put forth, it could completely take up Obama's first term, and that's not what a president should be doing.
What many don't know is that there is a huge Federal criminal element within our Government that is directly involved in world wide drug distribution. The family I was part of for more than 26 years joined shortly after I married. As far as I know, the connection with this criminal system goes all the way back to Nixon. It's their way of side stepping any esposure to Congress of how they are getting money to fund Black-Op's. However even though back in the Regean days, the Iran/Contra affair disclosed part of this criminal element, most of it remained. The family I was in was part of it and today, it's become so huge that most people wouldn't beleive it.
There are two worldly products, oil and drugs. The drug area is overseen by a Political Mafia supported by many within the US and abroad. As an example, when the family graduated from laundering drug money into property into going into the air shipping distribution business in Florida with Clyde O'Connor, they went to a well known law firm in Chicago used by the Combine/Political Mafia. There Obama assisted them with establishing and setting up their business according to them while I was married in the 90's. Property is used by this criminal system often as payment. A well known Attorney in California researched and found more than 130 properties highly considered to be owned by Obama. This was learned a few months ago. Since Mortgage Fraud schemes are used for laundering drug money, determining the exact ownership of these properties will take some time. This is because, according to the family, high level administrators in big Banks are normally running the Mortgage Fraud schemes supporting high level Government and other VIPs officals. Local Chicago newspapers (Tribune) investigating Mortgage Fraud only found low level employees running Mortgage Fraud scams when in fact I personally know high level administrators are doing it big time. The reason should be clear as the newspapers are also involved in protecting the massive drug system. Ever hear the name Stringers? Chicago alone gets a weekly $100 million dollar shipment -- that's more than $5Billion in drugs per year! And the family is directly involved in it with shipping and laundering.
Next time you read about kids dying from a drug overdose, think again about WHO really is involved in selling our kids those drugs!
There is a lot about this that could be made known another time.....
Marty Didier
Northbrook, IL
Abraham Ben Judea writes:
"All of you conspiratorialists and denialists....
Explain This.......
So... who'd he meet with?"
Uh ... David Gergen and Dick Cheney?
Bebe Netanyahu and Michael Bloomberg?
Caroline Kennedy and Arnold Schwarzenegger?
Alice Walker and Alice Waters?
I give up. With whom DID He meet?
Rahm Emanuel, a former Israeli tank commander, and a first citizen of Israel, assures his fellow Zionists in the former Bush Administration they will not be punished for torturing 'ragheads' afterall. The incestuous malignancy of these two Administrations is beyond the pale.
We have had an obvious fascist government; since the murder of JFK. Our Founding Fathers warned us, as well as armed us. Meanwhile we as individuals remain divided, and concerned only about our pampered/sorry asses.
Our children and grand-children are allready suffering 'cause of our sorry asses. They have seen nothing, yet. Shame on all of us for letting our children and grand-children down. One only needs to look into the mirror, to see who is really guilty in the self-destruction of America.
Our Founding Fathers gave us ideas of what to do... For others Gandhi and King had wonderful ideas as well. Let us not forget the Blank Panthers who were instrumental in putting an end. to the Vietnam War. Then there were those pesky college kids, that were inspired by the Kent State Heroes, killed by our own government.
Our Founding Fathers, our own kids, and Grandkids deserve so much more.
Are you going to be a part of the problem, or part of the solution. Nothing else really matters at this point. Our kids are counting on us.
I wanted kusinich, he didn't get the support he needed. We can't complain for three more years and hope we get lucky. Get ahold of your congressmen and senators and make them do something. It's our government and now we have a president that actually might listen. We need to talk louder I guess.
Done!!! Done with the two party system....after voting Democrat for over 20 years....enough. I will change registration from Democrat to Green Party...
Suppose Emanuel will turn out to be involved, along with Harmon, in the Bush-footsie revelations? Betcha.
This is unacceptable ... it's no different than what the Bush administration did ... this makes the Obama administration complicit in those crimes ... Obama is officially signaling to us that he is part of the same corrupt system he claimed to be about changing ... this is beyond disappointing .... it's catastrophic. The truth is in ... Obama is part of the new world order willing to cover the crimes of the controlling elite and continue a system run by and for them. The hell with Obama.
John writes:
"Done!!! Done with the two party system....after voting Democrat for over 20 years....enough. I will change registration from Democrat to Green Party..."
Nonono: just don't VOTE for Obama-organization Democrats.
If you leave your registration as it is, you can, among other things, "run" -- few positions actually ARE elected -- for the local Democratic Central Committee, or for any other office.
Is there ANYthing the "Obama" organization used to install its candidate on which the hijacked former Democrats AREN'T now going to renege?
Whatta buncha . . . pirates.
NYTimes:
"WASHINGTON — The Obama administration said on Monday that it had no plans to reopen negotiations on the North American Free Trade Agreement to revise its labor and environmental provisions, as then-Senator Barack Obama promised to do during his presidential campaign ...
"Not only Mr. Obama, but also one of his rivals for the presidency, Hillary Rodham Clinton, had promised during their campaigns to renegotiate the accord – a politically popular position in some electorally important Midwestern states that have lost thousands of manufacturing jobs."
When i voted for obama In one of his campain speeches he promised he would prosecute anyone who broke the law.my what a l ying sack of shit he is .no different from bush.i will never vote for a demo or repug.they can go to hell
" . . . this is satiric, but like all satire, has a serious point. The quote from Obama is, however, real."
Obama Pardons Madoff
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/obama-pardons-madoff_b_188504.html
Byron wrote:
"One last thing. The are Repugs that are using every tool at their disposal to try to kill Obama's chance for reelection in 2012. This issue is one of them. Repugs posing as disappointed Dems are rubbishing Obama at every opportunity hoping to divide and conquer. Progressives should be aware of that. Even with this disappointing issue, Obama is world's better than they are. Period."
---------------------------------
Obama is world's better than they are? LOL.
Obama IS a Repug. He was a Bush-accomplice in the senate. Did you ever examine his voting record by chance? One example: He voted FOR the re-authorization of the USA Patriot Act. That shreds the US Constitution. That's better than Repugs? Really? This man doesn't give a damn about the US Constitution otherwise he would not have voted FOR FISA as well, or the USA Patriot Act, as two examples. That's better than Repugs? Really? Where? And I'm an independent (just so you know). I'm not into that party-line shit like the Obamabots and the Repugs. I'm still pushing for true progressive third parties. I mean, what other choice do we have at this point? We either have right-wing Repugs or right-wing Dems all getting paid $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from the international corporate crime families.
The truth is Byron is a corporate troll going around to website trying to make excuses and apologies for right-wing actions by his messiah Obama. I just wanted to warn the true progressives about this. Beware of the corporate Obama trolls floating around on the Internet spreading their excuses and apologies for their messiah. He could do anything and these corporate apologists would give messiah Obama a free ride....even when it comes to torture.
Yeah, Obama blows.
If we had wanted another Clinton for president, we would have elected another Clinton for president.
[...] [...]
Until people wake up and understand that the "people's representatives" are no
representing the people but belong to the lobbies, corporations, and finacial institutions to whom they sell themselves there will be no change.
Money buys the elections - who gives the money that assures the re-election? Who wins the elections? The same ones year after year, the ones with the most money. Money for the smear campaigns, the TV ads, the private jets and most of all the smooth talking.
This same money chain owns the media, controls information , without which there can be no democracy.
We need to face facts, there is no longer democracy but in name and one that distributes just enough messages of hope to keep the rabble fenced in and believing there are green pastures just around the corner.
Really it is time to wake up.
Fuuny...how farang was ridiculed and labeled an "anti-semite" when I asked about Rep. Harman authoring that "Domestic Radicalization" bill that sought RE-EDUCATION CLASSES for anyone PROTESTING AGAINST the Federal Government. Yeah, it was a real knee-slapper, that one.
And about how, as a Jew, it seemed awfully hypocritical of her to write letters (posted on her website) to the American-Armenian community, telling them "it isn't the RIGHT TIME to recognize the GENOCIDE of the Armenians by the Young Turks, because it would "insult Turkey." yeah, "not the right time" 90 freakin' years later......
Still laughing at farang now, folks?
Then here is the punchline: Sibel Edmonds documented the connection between the ATC and AIPAC. The ATC (American-Turkish Council) is where the DRUG PROFITS and GUN RUNNING get laundered and passed to the DIRTY POLITICIANS IN D.C.
Anyone still laughing now??
Pelosi, Harman, Rep. Porter Goss, Sen Bob Graham, all were BRIEFED on this TORTURE, and LOOKED THE OTHER WAY. Goss got "promoted" to head of the CIA, to purge the ones reluctant to TORTURE and to COVER UP the crimes.
Guilty, all of them, along with Obama, as accessory after the fact.
Oh yeah: lastly, the closet queen, former Republican Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert was nailed by Edmonds as accepting a $400,000 bribe from the ATC.....
But HEY, Obama is going after "DOMESTIC left-wing animal protesters/terrorists", so let's just let "bygones be bygones", yeah?
A word people: Rid our government of the influence of foreign governments and THEIR AGENTS NOW if you really want change. BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
That includes the White House Chief-of-Staff.
I begged you all not to vote for ONE more Democrat or Republican.......over and over, to no avail.
Happy with your choice now?
Americans do NOT Torture!
It is UN-AMERICAN to TORTURE!
Be a true Patriot, stand up to TORTURE!
This is the most powerful country in the world, and we are better than Al Qaeda. I love our constitution, America and what this country was founded on, how about you?
Suggestion: If you’re for torture, go back to 1776 England.
Hey guys and all you people out there;
Firstly, you do realize that the US is screwed no matter what happens? Even whether you have voted for Obama or McCain, they will not exactly fulfill all of your promises to you. They need to consider what people want, and that's what Obama had thought.
Personally, I don't want Bush to be prosecuted for the war crimes... although he did a really big load of shit there. Even though I hate him, you shouldn't overreact with too much emotion because people do realize that Freedom of Speech is respected in the US.
And besides, Obama is concentrating on Freedom, but as well as the economy too... I'm not sure if the stimulus package would work out already....
And yeah, Obama doesn't want to expose the USA as bad, after it's reputation has been ruined by George W. Bush since the Iraq War. They also want to respect Human Rights, no matter what people say and what they think.
And John McCain... they will not do the job any better... McCain and Palin will continue the Iraq War and possibly even cut taxes further and even enhancing more Wars... so it's not gonna be good + more people will hate the USA.
So obviously on both sides, Democrats and Republicans are both screwed up.
"when I asked about Rep. Harman authoring that "Domestic Radicalization" bill that sought RE-EDUCATION CLASSES for anyone PROTESTING AGAINST the Federal Government. Yeah, it was a real knee-slapper, that one."
Note that the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 isn't really "dead", but is still in committee in the Senate.
Only six members of the House (three Dems, three Republicans) voted AGAINST it., and ten Democrats and a dozen Republicans abstained.
http://www.opencongress.org/roll_call/show/2941
William Pfaff in truthdig:
"The men who authorized, ordered and performed such acts should be hanged. It is as simple as that."
But where's Obama? Gone to Iowa to pitch "clean" coal, or whatever. Does His flight from DC look more yellow than "green"?
I believe that the Bush Administration should be prosecuted and hung from a moral stand point, but political it will show Americans as unstable and crooked to other countries.
Larry Barksdale writes:
"I believe that the Bush Administration should be prosecuted and hung from a moral stand point, but political it will show Americans as unstable and crooked to other countries."
The American political class IS "unstable and crooked" -- everybody in THIS country knows that, and those in "other" countries, particularly if they followed the Cheney-Bush administration (and the Democrats' craven collusion with Cheney-Bush's EVERY excess), and the past primaries of the former-Democrats, know it too.
Is "our" celebrity government so obsessed with how it looks to OTHER countries -- chiefly ISRAEL, apparently -- that its drifty corporate figure-head will now cave on EVERY promise of "change" He made to get elected, while continuing to throw the Treasury to the very rich, and continue to war against half the mideast while flying off to Iowa for some blabla about wind machines? And will the press and teevee commentariat CONTINUE to refrain from pointing out what He's doing? So it seems.
Representing the citizens of THIS country, rather than trying to spin public opinion in other places, is what the Constitution prescribes. If Obama's so hot to give the CIA a pass for "just following orders", maybe He should pardon the low-level military peasants who went to PRISON for "just following orders"?
[...] is yet open, and federal lawyers still seek to make sure they gain no legal rights whatsoever. No action will be taken against Bush and his officials to place them on trial for war crimes and murder, a dignity and right they have [...]
Marjorie Cohn: "Obama's intent to immunize those who violated our laws banning torture and cruel treatment violates the President's constitutional duty to 'take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed'.'"
But get a load of serial-turncoat Senator Lieberman (Obama's mentor in the Senate, Loserman helpfully threw his toxic support to the Republicans during the presidential campaign season) today (26 April 2009) on CNN's "State of the Union":
"Sen. Joe Lieberman, the Connecticut independent, said the debate is moot because Obama has banned such tactics. A "truth commission" to investigate the interrogation program "will poison the water here in Washington," Lieberman said. "It will make it harder for the president to do some of the big things he wants to do for the country — not just get the economy going, but get some Republican support for health care reform, energy independence and education reform." -- AP
So . . . looks like Obama's fine with flouting the Constitution and okaying war crimes, if it serves His agenda -- which appears to be to turn the country's remaining resources over to corporate control. God forbid the quaint ole Constitution, or the "rule of law" these frauds are always prescribing for others, should -- in Lieberman's words -- "poison the water" in D.C.
Better to impeach this mob-friendly fraud -- not only for shirking His duty, but for trillions upon trillions of dollars worth of financial flim-flam on behalf of financial institutions and other favored corporations.//
President Obama's refusal to prosecute former President George W. Bush and the inner circle of Bush administration officials for war crimes, makes him an accessory after the fact. He, in turn, could be prosecuted. War crimes were committed, our Constitution was all but trashed, and President Obama, the candidate for "change that we can believe in," is running scared by the Banana Republican bullies who are not afraid to look fierce as they kick us in the groin, again and again and again. What is wrong with the Democrats? Are they all being blackmailed by Bush's NEOCONvictS? Or, do they just not want to get their suits rumpled while fighting back? The American people do not now need a bunch of cowards in the White House in place of the bunch of criminials that occupied it for eight years. In mid-September a war crimes tribunal is to be commenced. Many alarmed citizens, including professionals in the fields of law, science and medicine will be testifying at the trial. If President Obama and his appointees are too terrified to take this "war crimes monster" on, then it is up to the good citizens of this country to do the job of prosecuting Bush and his inner circle of advisors for war crimes and treason. Only when the lot of them, who have committed war crimes or authorized the commission of war crimes are behind bars will this country be able to look forward again. Then, and only then, will this country be able to "move on. "
what a hella mess
i only voted foh him because he said he would prosecute if any crimes were
committed.plenty of that is public knoledge.fuc8 the bastards.so much for change.