Fox Business Network anchor Cody Willard didn't appear to be very "fair and balanced" as he let out his opinion of Democrats' economic policy during a tea party protest in Boston. "When are we going to wake up and start fighting the fascism that seems to be permeating the country?" asked an excited Willard. "The fascism -- the definition of it is big business and government getting in bed together. That is what these people are fighting. We have about 700 people here. They are starting to rally," he said.
"You got to love this one right here," he quipped, referring to a sign held by a girl. "'I'm only eleven and deep in debt.' She had to pay for the $160 billion Republican stimulus package that came out in 2007. Now she is paying for the $800 billion Republican Democrat fascist stimulus package that is coming out this time. Guys, when are we going to wake up and start fighting the fascism that seems to be permeating this country?"
This video is from Fox News' Happening Now, broadcast Apr. 15, 2009.
-- David Edwards
Wasn't this hairy fucktard one of the Geico Cavemen? He sure sounds like it.
fascism - a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Proving you don't have to know anything about the words you throw around in FOX "fair & balanced" reporting.
Kirk,
I'm having an issue with how that definition doesn't fit the current state of affairs?
Proving you don't have to know anything about the words or read the definition that you throw around on Raw Story Forums.
How dare he not say what he is scripted to! He has violated the journalistic code of ethics by saying what he feels! Journalists are to be fake and not make us think to hard!
Liberty,
If by "current", you refer to the Bush/Cheney administration's attempt at Fascism, then you are correct. It sure sounds like them, doesn't it?
But then Fox news depends on a low-information viewer base in order to claim "fair and balanced".
Hi Kirk, whats the source of that definition for fascism you presented? Far as I understand, there are volumes of differing opinions on what constitutes fascism, one of which is that the economy is centralized and controlled by and for favored corporations.
Kirk's definition is from Merriam-Webster online dictionary. There is no mention of centralized economy. Here's the link so you have no excuse for not knowing in the future.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Words are important, their meanings are important. That's why we have lots of them.
Liberty,
Maybe I can answer that one for Kirk.
I think what he is getting at is that fascism has been greatly expanded during the Republican rule over government. They are the ones who started acting as if you either love America or leave it and you don't criticize the President (" regime that exalts nation", "headed by a dictatorial leader", "forcible suppression of opposition"). If I recall O'Reilly's statement was that it was our duty to shut up.
I haven't seen this President or their supporters say "shut up or get outta the country" or "you're a traitor" like I heard said to me for the past 8 years (quite a lot during the run up to the wars I might add)... quite the contrary, I hear him speaking to the opposition and people who disagree and trying to come up with some compromises, or at the very least, not belittling them.
When it comes to "social regimentation", I can think of no greater culprits than the right wing who want us to do everything their way, even in the privacy of our own homes (yes, there are some lefties who are just as bad about their policies (smoking, gun control, etc), but they are the exception instead of the rule in my belief and they generally do have a legitimate argument (health, safety, etc)- as opposed to the right's social control being based upon their 'Book' or their morals).
The "severe economic... regimentation" , well, I'm no economist, so I'm not quite sure what this is referring too, but in terms of our current economic state I would certainly say Bush, Reagan and Clinton (with the help of a Republican Congress) caused this economic house of cards- although I've always said the Clinton was the best Republican President we ever had.
I think the disbelief coming from the left has to do with the timing.
We just went through 8 years of the shredding of the Constitution (no Habeus Corpus, torture, illegal wiretapping, outing of CIA agents, etc) and lies to start wars, where most of these people at these Tea Parties (the Republicans; I realize the Libertarians have been speaking up) said nothing. But now, as Obama tries to fix 30 years of economic issues (maybe the wrong way, maybe not), and has only been in office 2-3 months, they want to fire HIM and overthrow the government as if he was the one that started it.
Also, many of these people keep stating he's raising taxes, which is not only not true (unless you make 250K - in that case he is "raising" them to 10% lower than under Reagan) , but is more than obvious if you watched your paycheck over the past 2 months as the amount of taxes taken out has decreased (don't take my word for it, look at your pay stubs).
Now, we can have a legitimate argument about whether spending to get an economy moving again is the right thing to do, but for people to come out and blame all this on Obama after just a few months is silly and just plain partisan.
Yes, I know he mentioned Bush, but that is just to 'look' centrist because its too late to do anything about Bush.
I have to say though, I am disappointed in the left for their rude and demeaning comments during this time - guys, we were just on the receiving end of this for 8 years, shouldn't we know better than to belittle people we disagree with?
Peace,
Brad
The "right" seems so fixated on the idea that honest good-thinking people must believe Obama is the "Messiah" that one wonders whether the "right" thought Bush as THEIR "Messiah"? Or was he "The burning bush" and their Moses was too busy partying with Wall Street to listen? Maybe Rush or Newt can step in now? Palin, anyone?
Alex:
Mistake 1: This guy is a journalist.
In fact, he works for Fox News, which belies any credibility whatsoever.
Mistake 2: That this assclown's comments were scripted.
Fox News "reporters" do not know how to write, therefore "scripting" is outside their scope of ability.
Mistake 3: That there is a journalist code of ethics.
Ever heard the name William Randolph Hearst? There's your code of ethics.
Mistake 4: That Fox News "journalists" don't say what they feel.
Since Faux "reporters" are incapable of reporting events without bias, their entire "reportage" is nothing BUT opinion.
Mistake 5: That journalists are to be fake.
The very definition of journalist today is fakey fake.
Mistake 6: That this Neanderthal makes us "think hard."
Maybe this knuckledragger's retarded comments make Alex think hard/brain hurt, but for the rest of us who think routinely, this doesn't even constitute thinking: it constitutes regurgitation.
Mistake 7, and your biggest mistake: That anything you say has validity in this argument.
You are incapable of validity.
Great retort, Brad.
This whole imitation tea party protest is fabricated outrage.
The assumption that there will be intelligent dialogue is a mistake. The people involved in this will chase whatever stick is thrown. Give them two hours of Nascar, a box of Krispy Kremes and they will chant any slogan Fox news tell them to.
Drew, I didn't ask you where the quote came from, I asked Kirk. Furthermore, merriam-webster is not the end all be all what the definition of fascism is. Like I stated, there are volumes written by different people on what fascism is, and one of the main proponents of fascism used the definition I pointed to:
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
Since you chose to be rude, I will be likewise, butt out.
Doesn't it seem the heighth of irony to have the ranks of Kankerdom seeking to protect artifically-low tax rates for "the Four Hundred"--same to be excused and justified as being pro Deo et patria ("for G-d and Country") in case anybody (especially "meddling Secular-Progressive Bloggers") starts asking questions?
And to use supposedly "spontaneous popular demonstrations" they probably don't know were orchestrated by special interests acting in the name and behalf of "the Four Hundred" to advance such a delusion!!
(Come to think of it, the ones who most deserve this "teabagging" exercise are some of its biggest fans and supporters, and "for reasons you will understand." Preferably cheap dollar-store brand bagged tea, come to think of it.)
It's "Corporatism" and Cody Willard has been asleep at the wheel for 8 years if he didn't previously recognize that was what the Bush administration was all about.
Historically, corporatism refers to a political or economic system in which power is held by civic assemblies that represent economic, industrial, agrarian, social, cultural, and/or professional groups. These civic assemblies were originally known as corporations in Mussolini's Italy, but have been called many other things, e.g. "war boards," "industrial boards," and "regulatory agencies." These "corporations' are unelected bodies with an internal hierarchy; their purpose is to exert control over the social and economic life of their respective areas, that is to cartelize industries to enhance government power over the economy, and to create barriers to entry and fixing prices. Thus, for example, a steel corporation would be a cartel composed of all the business leaders in the steel industry, coming together to discuss a common policy on prices and wages. When the political and economic power of a country rests in the hands of such groups, then a corporatist system is in place.
Hillarious! I just heard an add for 'survival seeds'. I think everyone of these folks should vote to throw out their local US Rep and Senator! Based upon the turnout numbers and cities that would increase the Democratic majority by another 10%. Folks protesting for more tax breaks for the wealthy who will continue, as under Bush, to tax shelter the money out of the US and invest in international economies for a higher return then they can get in the US. Hey teabggers....Should we not stop all tax dollar supported farm subsidies? Would you support legalizing all sin crimes...gambling, prostitution, drugs so we can cut your taxes that would otherwise go to law enforcment, courts and prisons? How much more are you paying in Federal taxes since Obama took office? Mine are going down. Obama just increased the military budget 4.2% .....how much would you cut it? Would you means test social security payments so the wealthy don't receive them? Based upon the mega churches with country club amenities going up around me would you stop the churches from being subsidixed by your taxes as they forgoe local property, sales, income & social security taxes? Should cities stop subsidizing sports arenas you can't afford to take your family to? Should public colleges/universities in your state stop paying millions of your tax dollars to sports coaches? Would you support not treating anyone, regardless of whether they arrive bleeding at the hospital, if they can't pay or provide insurance? If you receive a health benefit or pay for your med insurance with pre tax doallrs do you think you should be not receive this tax dollar support? btw - someone please define the dif between the 'mainstream media' and your media.....given that fox is the top cable news network and gop radio dominates the public airwaves it can't be based upon ratings....isn't really just those who are with you are not mainstream and those who oppose you are? Now that the WSJ is owned by FOX is it no longer in the mainstream?
OK Liberty, Probably MOST importantly we do not have a dictator, he was elected in a fair democratic election. Just b/c your side lost by about 7 million votes doesn't automatically make him a dictator. That is a key part of facism, also do you fear he is going to favor a particular goup? What evidence do you have of this? Please stop just simply watching the Faux news entertainment network maybe if you actually review policies, likethe FACT that the horrendous tax plan is simply placing it back to 1993 tax levels. You have the right to disagree, don't get me wrong but this constant use of socialism and facism is wholly inaccurate in fact the idea that they are both thrown around as if they are the same thing is just plain stupidity. We can never have a real debate if people are going to throw out complete inaccruacies and in some cases just plain lies.
Liberty = the exact opposite of liberty.
While reporting the news, Cody decided to put his two cents worth in and describe America as a fascist state. He's absolutely correct.
Now that a more moderate government is in control (sic), the fascist Fox news agency is calling the kettle black. Interesting strategy and certainly keeps the hoi poloi guessing.
The corporate state fascists of America should be quite pleased with their galliant new leader who is quite happy to shield them from the peasantry and their tea bagging.
All they need now is for the well armed kooks to continue the random shootings and before you know it the black shirts will be checking your papers as martial law is the order of the day.
Let the right-wingers have the South, and they can be all to themselves and happy. Construct a wall so they can't bother us again. I want them to have no ability to enter a sane area of the country again.
Where is the FCC while Fox Entertainment has turned into a full time republiKKKon station? ? Their "tea bags for the rich" is a total failure just like their "news" is. If you hear it on Fox, it probably isn't true or has been changed to hurt the innocent. I actually heard Fox say they were "fair and balanced" which I guess mean they are fair and balanced for all reichwing republiKKKon nuts with their talking points.
i think it's funny watching fascists call others fascists. not only are they uneducated as to what fascism is or the signs thereof.....but they are completely introspectively unaware
the inability for introspection, being apathetic and irresponsible is a sociopathic disorder and authoritarian....which is.....you guessed it.....a precursor to a fascist mentality.
Hmmm:
I am a mathematician. Definitions means a great deal to everything I do. Different definitions mean different results. To compare what I think with what you think, there has to be a common language, and we use dictionaries for such things.
Would you care to source a dictionary with some equivalence of fascism and corporate favoritism? Your quote is unacceptable, though interesting. Keep in mind, Bush used many words incorrectly; the fact that he used them does not change their definitions.
Mussolini: "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."
Was the Fox "reporter" protesting against large corporations with undo political power? Jeepers, don't tell Rupert Murdoch!
The "Boston Tea Party" was a protest by small tea merchants against draconian tax cuts by Britain on behalf of a transnational corporation, the East India Tea Company. The smaller tea merchants in the American colonies were then taxed much more heavily, yet had no political representation in the British government.
Somebody should tell the poor, ignorant fools at these events just how thoroughly they are being played for chumps.
There sure are a lot of idiots in the world. I bet when they are done they are going to "tea bag" each other.
Source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tea+bag
Drew, let me make sure I understand what you are saying, Benito Mussolini, the man who invented Italian Fascism and ran the fascist Italian state for years, is an unacceptable source to you? That is like saying Karl Marx is an unacceptable source for the discussion on aspects of Communism.
It seems a lot of readers are falling for the elite's old game of divide and conquer. I went to a tea party today and 99% of signs were anti banker-bailout themed. I fully support them in opposing bailing out wallstreet. I got a good idea attack the little people who are mad about a multitrillion dollar theft instead of the elite that continue to pick your pocket. You are sure to further your interests that way!
Peace!
What a jerkoff. He should find another line of work, I'm sure the conspiracy websites are hiring retards like this guy.
Andrew,
Then if that is true, why is the Main Stream Corporate Conservative Media framing it as a referendum against Obama? The MSCCM is who organized this thing and promoted it to no end. Where were these people when Bush first proposed bailing out Wall Street? The media has been completely compromised to no end. I suspect that if McCain (gulp) had been elected, the bailout would still have occured, but today would have passed like any other docile April 15th.
These people as a whole are not mad about the bailout. They are getting their anger and frustration out for losing the election to a man who is not lily white. Look at the demographic of the crowd. It looks like a McCain/Palin rally. These people are a minority who are being pumped up into a looking like a majority. Look, I don't like the bailout anymore than the next guy, but I will not buy the line that this is only about a bailout. Where were these people during the last 8 years as $5 trillion was flushed down the shitter? I'll tell ya- they were home jacking off to the the Fox Propaganda Network.
ROTFLMAO!!!! Only in America can you have the people BENEFITTING from tax cuts protesting against a whopping 3% tax increase on the wealthy!!!! Two to one these bohunks haven't a CLUE that, once again, the GOP is USING THEM like a cheap whore on a street corner!!
This is just too funny to be pathetic!!!!
Brad, I loved your comment. I tried to make a similar statement last night on the foxnation website. Guess what? My comment wasn't posted. I then asked why they were frightened by the democratic right of free expression of ideas. Didn't post that one either. Wouldn't want the masses to have to actually think seriously about issues, would we?
Oh, and the FAUXNews reporter is a TOTAL tool - LOL!
Remember, folks - THESE ARE THE FACES OF THE 'RETOOLED' GOP ... LOL
The 11 year old girl so pitifully in debt has not paid off the Reagan debt yet, and probably never will. If she could, then she would have to start on the enormous debt left us by the Bush regime. The interest burden on all that debt is crushing. It is the elephant in the room, that drains us of more money than the war department, every year. With the interest on the bush debt, we could build commuter rail all over the country. We could educate people, so they would know the difference when Fox lays crap on them. Without the Bush debt, there would be no issue regarding having enough money for social security. Without the bush debt, we could have universal medical care. What decision did he make while he was in office? He chose to leave us deep in debt killing people for oil. That was his spending priority.
Who is Fox touting now? We have their kind, including rush the doper, now speaking in support of pure corporatisim, without even having a candidate to shill for.
Veronica-
More like the "refooled" GOP. These people are beyond the pale. I think they have finally reached their pinnacle of hypocrisy, projectionism, and mental illness. As these assholes behave like monkeys today, their tax refunds are probably on their way. It will never be anything more than opposite day with these people. Never.
Hmmm:
This is exactly my point. Italian fascism, Soviet fascism, Chinese fascism,German fascism. They're different, and Italian fascism was certainly not first. To further dispute your marx reference, Marx was a philosopher who created a concept, so referencing him is natural. And by the way, he spends quite a bit of time with definitions, so others can read him and understand what he is saying.
So no, a quote from a particular fascist doesn't serve as a definition, just like a quote from a particular Christian, or Republican, or conservative, might not define your views.
Now what aspects of Obama make you think he's fascist? I'm being serious. I read the news, I follow policy, and I'm mystified. Are you offended that he's spending money? Keep in mind, Bush's last budget request was 3.7 trillion, not counting TARP funds or war funds (September 7, 2008, New York Times)? I've not seen a coherent account of what the protest is about, and I've gone to Michelle Malin, Fox News, Townhall, RedState, etc.
Yeah you can tell the nut-sackers are all against fascism by the large number of neo-nazis in their midst. Did they manage to get them to leave their Nazi flags home this time?
Drew, the Soviets called themselves Communists and opposed fascism, as did the Chinese. Mussolini is not just a particular fascist, you want to just dismiss his philosophical views on the issue even though he: wrote on the topic, ran a country, lead fascist wars of aggression and directly affected millions of lives; simply because you refuse the accept the premise that corporatism is a part of what many view as fascism. So I think we should stop because you are unwilling to move beyond that point. There is no point in discussing it if you choose to believe that only merriam-webster is the only source worthy of reference.
I also apologize for being rude earlier, that's not me. Why do you assume I'm a Christian, conservative, or Republican? I am none those three things. Nor am I ignorant of the things that Bush did. I never said Obama was a fascist which you also assume, I was asking Kirk where he got his definition for fascism.
And in reply to your request, I knew the source already (having already looked up precisely that definition earlier in the day, and recognizing the turns of phrase).
I do not mean to imply that you are anything (I had a disclaimer to this point but accidentally deleted it), but you see my point.
As to Russian or Chinese fascism, consider this: they stated opposition to fascism true, but analyze their actions with respect to Webster's definition:
"a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."
1. exalts nation and often race: Read the speeches of Stalin, Kruschev, and Brezhnev and count the references to Mother Russia and Communism's predestined triumph over western capitalism. In particular, nuanced language especially following the Maoist revolution in China, indicates that only their communism can stand against the west. Go back to original source material and ask whether they were fascist, regardless of their stand against Nazism. As to exaltation of race, it is well documented the racism shown in Soviet style communism against the multitude of races in the USSR, with preference alwaysgiven to "Great Russians", that is natives of Russia, as opposed to Belorussia, the Baltic states, Ukraine, Armenia, etc.
2. centralized autocratic government: self-evident
3. dictatorial leader: again self-evident, especially in the cases of Stalin-Kruschev-Brezhnev
4. economic and social regimentation: modified form of Peter the Grea's societal reforms that were used to "grade" individuals. Required youth involvement in the Red Youth in order to secure jobs later on. Even required grades in handwriting in grade school if you weren't Great Russian, to show that you had no preference to your own cultures particular language, grammar, and style.
5. forcible suppression of opposition: again, self evident.
For the sake of other blog readers, I will spare you the breakdown of the Chinese.
My point remains: Mussolini was a fascist, true; you are the first person that I've heard that wants to compare Obama with him. I fail to see any connections, and you have still not provided any.
Fascism is exactly what cheney was aiming for. Fascism marries corporate interests with public policy. It uses the military to muscle foreigners and its citizens with threats and torture. It produces false flag scares to rally the public into its grip. It privatizes all social services so fewer rich have control. cheney's henchmen tried this in Chile when they propped up Pinochet, the torturing dictactor and it failed miserably. People really need history lessons in the US. Where were all these tea baggers when bush and cheney lied into a war costing a billion dollars a day. Fox was cheering them on and so were the conservatives. This is why the tea baggers are a joke and pawns for the wealthy because we know the wealthy always find saps to do their dirty work.
I love rawstory but why do they need to attack citizens exercising their 1st amendment rights? I mean come on, is it really an attack on obama and the democrats? Its not a partisan issue. Its not democrat or republican. Thats really just a smoke screen that we have choice. We don't. We had the same unconstitutional overbearing federal government under president bush. I wish left vs. right was defined as it truly should be, on the basis of the size and role of government. Both parties are under the same tent. They just disagree on whose wealth they should confiscate, how to spend your wealth and redistribute it to fellow cronies, and which fringe groups to target.
Drew, as I stated earlier, I did not call Obama a fascist, you keep choosing to see what you want from the things you believe me to be, to now saying that I want to compare Obama to Mussolini. I didn't offer any proof to that end because i didn't say it.
Fascism is by definition a right-wing phenomenon. It is what Dick Cheney tried to put over on the American people. Now the right is trying to tag the left with the word to muddy its meaning and render it useless.
But big government, allied with big business, the military and conservative religion was, is, and always will be a right-wing thing, despite the terminal confusion among the wingnuts at Fox.
Hmm,
You are correct, you did not call Obama fascist. I apologize; people throw around the word with no concept of its meaning, and they usually sit on one side of the aise, and so I assume. We all know how that turns out usually.
You have still not stated your problem with the definition of fascism I offered earlier. What are these "volumes" that deal with fascism as an economic force, instead of the political end it is commonly construed as?
This fuktard wouldn't know fascism if it bit him on his vagina. He spews sensationalism to rattle the cages of fanatics for the sole purpose of boosting Fox's ratings.
Drew, the problem is that the merriam-webster definition you are solely relying on is far from complete. Your example of the Soviet Union as fascist show the weakness of that particular definition as any autocratic state run by a dictator for life will fit under it, from communist Russia, to Pinochet's Chile, to feudal Europe, to the Bush administration's imagined Islamic Caliphate, to Saudi Arabia.
There are volumes written on the topic, do a search on amazon for example, it will bring back tens of thousands of books on the topic of fascism. Any political system is inherently an economic system.
Faux Noize and Ruptured MerdeCoque sure have a lot of nuts talking about FASCISM.
by the very nature of these scum, they EPITOMIZE FASCISM.
they like exploiting republican's, for they know most are dumber than a sack of doorknobs and not nearly as useful. they'll buy anything that Faux Noize Urinal will spout on the tube.
I think we need to ask a few of these right wing fucks if they know the difference between what the GOP filth did to us with help from the complicit in crime, dems, and what this new Obombabot is doing? When they can show me a dime's worth of difference, then I'll be happy to toast the differences.
there aren't any differences. The only 'real' difference now is that a black man is up on the world stage who can string words together into coherent sentences, and their fuhrer, the 'decider' Bush, couldn't keep his coke burnt brain on topic for more than a nanosecond or two, without showing what a drug adled sack of fried alcoholic shit he was. The new guy, though eloquent and much more intelligent, is doing the same shit.
but this color of fascism isn't what Faux Noize Chummers want for the masses, they like the John Boehner (yes, it sounds like a boner but that fucker probably needs viagra to get hard enough for penetration) variety.
fuck, most republican scum can't even spell the word 'fascism' let alone tell you what the fuck the word means. they just like the sound of it, sounds mighty diabolical and nasty when a DEMOCRAT is hawking it, but when their side was shoving it down our throats, it was just hunky fucking dory, wasn't it?
one question for them here; "where did your fuhrer piss away the 3 trillion he borrowed from the Chinese on the war, and who was the major recipient of all that war profiteering money??"
then ask them where the fucking difference is?
Per Cody Williard: Yeah, "fucktard" works really well... surprisingly so actually.
this GOOPER (see photo) can't even spell DISSENT!!!
http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/15/late-nite-republicans-cry-look-upon-our-jerks-and-despair/
Dictionary Defintion of Dissent;
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dissent
Hmmm,
I went through +/- 15 dictionary definitions; this one was common, although some had a clause "some control over economics", but the key word is control, not ownership.
I don't think the Soviet example shows the weakness of the definition, but instead shows its wide applicability, especially with regard to regimes that claim they were against fascism, when they were in actuality against a particular version of fascism while practicing another type.
I agree that a common thread in most dictatorships is some control over the economy, but I assert that is a byproduct of the type of rule, and the type of ruler, more than an indicator of fascism itself.
As an example of what I mean, consider Kaposi's sarcoma and HIV; the sarcoma is a common disease for people that have HIV, but is an opportunistic infection wholly unrelated to the virus itself. We don't include the sarcoma as a symptom of HIV, but instead note that there is a correlation in incidence between the two.
In a similar way, socialism seems to be a common thread to many representative democracies (Europe etc) but I think you would have a hard time adding "socialist economic policy" to the definition of representative democracy!
Keep in mind, authors are sometimes no more carful than politicians when they use a word. It might be that the definition is changing in this age, but I leave that to the lexicographers.
It might be worth mentioning that the Cambridge English dictionary makes no use of the word economics in its definitions of fascism, while it includes the clause "state control of economic and social life".
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html
Leave the poor man alone. He has severely overdosed on scrotum.
Drew, the fact that the definition that you cite is widely applicable is why it is weak. As I stated before, even a feudalist system would fall under that definition. Henry the Eight, Elizabeth the First, Isabella of Spain, Napoleon, Charlemane, every Pope, etc., would be a fascist under the definition you use. You are contorting to fit things into that definition because you opposed to the idea of corporatism being part of the definition. So, I'm done.
Hmm:
It's not my definition; it is the common definition of 15 major dictionaries. A quote by Mussolini does not change that fact.
If anyone wants to know the true signs of fascism, here they are (as defined by Laurence Britt, and widely agreed upon). Now, I ask you to read these, and tell me how close we were to fascism under the shrub. Nearly there. I'd say we fit just about all these criteria. How many of these criteria has Obama targeted? Hard to say, but not most:
From "Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20. Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.
The 14 characteristics are:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
6. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
drew
I think what needs to be cleared up here is that fascism is a political philosophy.
Being a philosophy, it is:
1. Ever evolving
2. Interpreted differently, even by scholars. (In the last 20 years Stanley Payne, Roger Eatwell, Roger Griffin and Robert O. Paxton have had conflicting arguments.)
3. Much more complex than a three line definition. (Try to source the definition for quantum theory in a physics argument and the same results will occur. It encompasses it, but is in no way a good explanation.)
Drew, I don't know if you went to college or not, but as you may know, if you are doing any research work, sourcing an encyclopedia is strictly forbidden. This is because the information is severely truncated and diluted... a dictionary is no better. Your stand on this argument is also quite childish and reminds me of the old "well my dad says it is, so it is" assertion, which is ok for a child, but not ok for an adult to rely on when they could do a little researching with that new fangled google thing. Grow up and don't just troll on the minute piece of evidence which is so vague that it even supports Hmmm's position if looked at from that viewpoint. Research, investigate and expand that pea sized speck you call your brain. Argue for something you truly believe in, not just to argue. Finally drew, don't be a tool, because you might need to go back to the home depot.
53bobotheclown: Sounds like Karl Rove's playbook to a letter.
The word fascism has been thrown around and misused so often its become a pejorative.
I dont know what to call government today what with bailing out investment banks, auto makers and insurance companies.
Its not fascism, its not nationalism, its not communism, its not socialism.
Its, basically, a return on an investment. In the last decade the FIRE sector [Financial, Insurance, Realty, Energy] has invested upwards of 5 billion in politicians campaigns and PACs, in lobbyists. And its paid off handsomely in bailouts etc etc.
I want to call it prostitution. But thats not quite right. Prostitutes dont give you trillions in return for a few million they were paid.
I would call it a Kleptocracy. Stealing the peoples money and handing it over to big business under the ruse that its too big to fail.
By current I mean the group of fascists that hold most of the offices in this country. They would be the Democrats AND Republicans. Until you stop buying into the phony left/right paradigm all of America will continue to lose.
Fascism = The collusion of Big Government and Big Business with a loss of Civil Liberties.
For example: The Fed, AIG and Free Speech Zones.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have."
http://www.freedomtofascism.com/
Peace.
Jason,
"What evidence"? You mean to tell me you are unaware that Obama received $38.5 million in campaign funds from Wall Street?
That the Goldman Sachs/Treasury revolving door is as operational under Obama as it was under Bush?
That his "chief-of-staff" left the Clinton administration and directly went to a Wall Street "investment bank" and made a multi-million dollar salary, then went directly back to politics? That Senator Charles Schumer, in 2007, PROMISED Wall Street thugs in three piece suits LESS REGULATION if they funded Democratic politicians in 2008??
That Obama is demanding autoworkers take pay cuts, while Con Artists and Banksters of failed and bankrupt institutions receive TRILLIONS for "T.A.R.P." purchases THEY DON"T MAKE AND REFUSE TO DISCLOSE WhereTF THE MONEY WENT??? And get freakin' "Retention bonuses", like any reputable business would want these fools that have caused this mess to stay ON??
The clown experts here ragging on this Faux News talking head about actually getting something RIGHT for a change: You know better than Mussolini wtf Fascism is?
Uh, okay, if you say so.......how about this: it could be a combination of political philosophies we are witnessing, but the above mentioned "Kleptocracy" seems like a close description of the TYPE, the degree of fascism we are now witnessing.
But at it's heart, it is fascism.
it's a craven desire for ultimate POWER, and must be STOPPED.
Which won't happen if we line up in a circle and fire away at each other........
Diaper Dave-
I agree with everything you've laid out, with the exception of your last sentence - "Stealing the peoples money and handing it over to big business under the ruse that its too big to fail." I would hardly categorize this administration's loaning big companies money as stealing from the taxpayer. It has yet to be seen what the ramifications will be from that strategy.
If and when the loans are repaid, with interest, those corporations will be free and clear of government constraints, but not without heavily imposed regulations. But, that is not their biggest nemesis. Big business must face up to the fact that the mindset of the average consumer and taxpayer has undergone a profound change. They realize that the market will no longer look after them, but more importantly, there is the pervasive notion that, if left unchecked, most financial institutions can not ever be trusted to run their businesses without some modicum of regulation and oversight.
Once burnt, twice shy.