US says it may kill Americans abroad

By John Byrne
Thursday, February 4th, 2010 -- 8:57 am
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 US says it may kill Americans abroadUpdate at bottom: Renowned blogger/lawyer Glenn Greenwald says program breaks US laws

In a striking admission from the Obama Administration's top intelligence officer, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair announced Wednesday that the United States may target its own citizens abroad for death if it believes they are associated with terrorist groups.

"We take direct action against terrorists in the intelligence community," Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair told the House Intelligence Committee. He said US counter-terrorism officials may try to kill American citizens embroiled in extremist groups overseas with "specific permission" from higher up.

If "we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that," Blair said in response to questions from the panel's top Republican, Representative Pete Hoekstra.

Blair's comments came after The Washington Post reported that US President Barack Obama had embraced predecessor George W. Bush's policy of authorizing the killing of US citizens involved in terrorist activities overseas.

Story continues below...

If a United States citizen was determined to have joined a foreign terrorist group, that person could be legally murdered under orders given by President George W. Bush after the 9/11 attacks.

"After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Bush gave the CIA, and later the military, authority to kill U.S. citizens abroad if strong evidence existed that an American was involved in organizing or carrying out terrorist actions against the United States or U.S. interests, military and intelligence officials said," the Post reported. "The evidence has to meet a certain, defined threshold. The person, for instance, has to pose 'a continuing and imminent threat to U.S. persons and interests,' said one former intelligence official.

"The Obama administration has adopted the same stance. If a U.S. citizen joins al-Qaeda, 'it doesn't really change anything from the standpoint of whether we can target them,' said a senior administration official. 'They are then part of the enemy.'"

The Post, citing anonymous US officials, said the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and Joint Special Operations Command have three Americans on their lists of specific people targeted for killing or capture.

Blair said weighing whether to target a US national required determining "whether that American is involved in a group that is trying to attack us, whether that American is a threat to other Americans."

The intelligence chief said he was offering such unusually detailed information in public because "I just don't want other Americans who are watching to think that we are careless."

"In fact, we're not careless about endangering lives at all, but we especially are not careless about endangering American lives as we try to carry out the policies to protect most of the country," he said.

Hoekstra, the ranking Republican, asked what the standards were for targeting American citizens abroad. Blair didn't specifically articulate them.

"We don't target people for free speech," he said. "We target them for taking action that threatens Americans."

Hoekstra pressed him, citing a 2001 incident in which Peru's air force shot down a plane carrying US missionaries, killing a woman and her seven-month-old daughter, after the aircraft was misidentified as a drug-smuggler.

"We were careless and we were reckless," Blair replied. "I want to make sure that this committee does everything that it can and within its power that it does not allow the community to be reckless and careless again."

"While I'm in charge, we will not be careless and reckless," he pledged.

Renowned blogger/lawyer Glenn Greenwald says program breaks US laws

Two of the most respected bloggers from the left who focus on civil liberties and constitutional issues offered harsh criticisms of the assassination program on Thursday.

Salon's Glenn Greenwald, a former NYC lawyer and the 'author of two New York Times Bestselling books,' observes, "Although Blair emphasized that it requires 'special permission' before an American citizen can be placed on the assassination list, consider from whom that 'permission' is obtained: the President, or someone else under his authority within the Executive Branch. There are no outside checks or limits at all on how these 'factors' are weighed. In last week's post, I wrote about all the reasons why it's so dangerous -- as well as both legally and Constitutionally dubious -- to allow the President to kill American citizens not on an active battlefield during combat, but while they are sleeping, sitting with their families in their home, walking on the street, etc. That's basically giving the President the power to impose death sentences on his own citizens without any charges or trial. Who could possibly support that?"

Greenwald continues,

The severe dangers of vesting assassination powers in the President are so glaring that even GOP Rep. Pete Hoekstra is able to see them (at least he is now that there's a Democratic President). At yesterday's hearing, Hoekstra asked Adm. Blair about the threat that the President might order Americans killed due to their Constitutionally protected political speech rather than because they were actually engaged in Terrorism. This concern is not an abstract one. The current controversy has been triggered by the Obama administration's attempt to kill U.S. citizen Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. But al-Awlaki has not been accused (let alone convicted) of trying to attack Americans. Instead, he's accused of being a so-called "radical cleric" who supports Al Qaeda and now provides "encouragement" to others to engage in attacks -- a charge al-Awlaki's family vehemently denies (al-Awlaki himself is in hiding due to fear that his own Government will assassinate him).

The question of where First Amendment-protected radical advocacy ends and criminality begins is exactly the sort of question with which courts have long grappled. In the 1969 case of Brandenburg v. Ohio, the Supreme Court unanimously reversed a criminal conviction of a Ku Klux Klan leader who — surrounded by hooded indivduals holding weapons — gave a speech threatening ”revengeance” against any government official who “continues to suppress the white, Caucasian race.” The Court held that the First Amendment protects advocacy of violence and revolution, and that the State is barred from punishing citizens for the expression of such views. The Brandenburg Court pointed to a long history of precedent protecting the First Amendment rights of Communists to call for revolution — even violent revolution — inside the U.S., and explained that the Government can punish someone for violent actions but not for speech that merely advocates or justifies violence (emphasis added):

As we [395 U.S. 444, 448] said in Noto v. United States, 367 U.S. 290, 297 -298 (1961), "the mere abstract teaching . . . of the moral propriety or even moral necessity for a resort to force and violence, is not the same as preparing a group for violent action and steeling it to such action." See also Herndon v. Lowry, 301 U.S. 242, 259 -261 (1937); Bond v. Floyd, 385 U.S. 116, 134 (1966). A statute which fails to draw this distinction impermissibly intrudes upon the freedoms guaranteed by the First and Fourteenth Amendments. It sweeps within its condemnation speech which our Constitution has immunized from governmental control.

Blogger Empty Wheel, who published a highly acclaimed book on the Plame leak case under her real name Marcia Wheeler, writes, "Glenn’s point is important because it appears the government agrees with him on the First Amendment point: all of the speech al-Awlaki has engaged in for the last decade was not deemed worthy of even a criminal indictment. Yet all of a sudden, it got al-Awlaki on the kill list."

After news of the Yemen strikes broke on December 24, RAW STORY noted that many reports suggested the cleric was targeted.

With AFP.

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Story comments are below...

  • NadePaulKuciGravMcKi
    Israeli Mossad are proud to conduct assassinations world-wide
    We have bloodthirsty criminals within our government & media

    It's annoying that we have to fight elections for our cause
    The inconvenience of having to get a majority
    If normal methods of persuasion fail to win us applause
    There are other ways of establishing authority

    no character no conscience
    judge jury executioner
    no chivalry no valor
  • You must remember that Winston Churchill called Ghandi a terrorist, and Margeret Thatcher called Nelson Mandela a terrorist. As they say, one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Both said this as they looked down the barrel of the gun.
  • sean
    This is a very serious issue in and of its own right; but coupled with the recent Supreme Court decision, this policy could lead to explosive growth in people being marginalized or eliminated overseas who threaten or protest multinational encroachment. All such dissident activity will quietly be deemed to be "terrorist" by US corporate/congressional definition, and silently relegated to non-issue by corporate media sources.
  • suziekidder
    I'm not sure the term the American public believes would best describe the way our national "Intelligence Agencies" - I use the term loosely - function would actually be "careless ... or even reckless."

    I think it's probably closer to "incompetent, clueless, and/or criminally negligent, etc." Essentially, none of the various alphabet soup agencies give a damn about "bug splat or collateral damage ... and they don't give a rat's ass about the deaths of innocent civilians. Unless, of course, they get caught at it and then that's sort of embarrassing and they kind of have to act sorry as long as the cameras are turned on.

    And perhaps just as disturbing, they view anyone whose beliefs and/or behavior differ from their political convictions on how the world "ought to run" as "posing a clear and present danger to the United States." So the "rigorous" criteria you mention as delineating those who would form appropriate targets for assassination ... are they sort of the same ones you used when you decided to "rendition" Maher Arar, etc.?

    Sorry boys, we remember Kent State. We remember you trying to infiltrate Quaker peace groups. We remember a whole slew of other instances in which you targeted those who were only calling their government to task for what they saw as the destruction of Democracy. Or, in other nations all around the world, individuals were only calling for the legitimate promotion of their own democracies. (There really is more than one 9/11 for those who pay attention to history) And there are good reasons why Iranians would prefer to handle their affairs without any more of our "help." Let's not even get started on what poses an almost endless list of those our "Intelligence Agencies" have targeted for assassination - from sitting heads of state to members of indigenous "terrorist" groups.

    There is a disgusting history behind the public's belief that our "Intelligence Services" have ZERO credibility. If you are interested at all in changing that fairly prevalent belief, you have a lot of work to do.
  • billbobaggins
    Sure, I don't like people that are working to tear this country apart, or hurt us, or whatever else...but if I believed we should shoot the people that are doing these things, without giving them any rights, then there would be a lot of dead politicians lying around.
  • Terry Kennedy
    I try to keep abreast of what's happening related to our country, but for some reason, this is the first I've read of USA citizens being assassinated. And to think President Obama OK's this blows my mind. At my age, I didn't think there'd be much that could shock me, but this is beyond scary. This appears to totally disregard basic constitiutional rights. Questioned, arrested, trial, I can accept,...but assassination ...definitely not.
    Respectfully,
    Terry Kennedy
  • The Deliverer
    Ok, people, I think it's about time you all woke to the reality of things. The left / right paradigm is just not working, and this is where we need to unite, and overthrow the very people who are trying to kill us. Get informed, and know who the real enemy is. No, there is no terrorists in hilltops in the middle east. Look at the very gov'ts who are creating these false flag terror attacks, and blaming others as a pretext for war and fear mongering. These criminals are coming out in the open saying they will attack within the next 3 to 6 months. how much more do you need to know from the very mouth of the beast!?!?! PLEASE people, the enemy is in our very country.
  • davidrvelasquez
    The intelligence community need to be re-reigned in.
    We restricted their activities after the excesses of the 70's.... and this is why.

    They're like kids... they need boundaries.
  • steve
    No trial, No facing your accuser, No chance to defend yourself. Step over the border and we can kill you - based on what ever we think at the time

    I didn't realize that Americans lose the rights of citizenship in the eyes of our government by stepping over the border.

    Chicago liposuction
  • seen2much
    Let's see, there's a recent report around here about a family of missionaries getting blown out of the sky by peruvian fighter planes on the orders of CIA thugs..

    How many kids were burned to death at Waco?

    Wasn't the first person killed at Randy Weavers place a little boy, wasn't the mother sniped in the head by lon horiuchi while holding a baby?

    Didn't that little cuban boy look terrified with that fully automatic MP-5 shoved in his face?

    How many innocent people have been gunned down by police who delivered no-knock warrants TO THE WRONG ADDRESSES?!?!?!?

    How many of our innocent fellow citizens were gunned down last year by PSYCHOTIC COPS?
    (how many of them were under 18? under 12?)

    They have been waging open war against us for YEARS.. Are you really surprised by this escalation?

    Now, there is only one question you should ask yourself: What side are you on. Think hard, because if you get it wrong there is much more to lose than you could ever know.

    It's not too late for peaceful change, provided we are willing to work for it. But keep reality in mind, never forget the violence they will throw at you if real change looks likely.

    Keep your powder dry.

    Baa! BAAAAA! Little sheeple, have you any meat to pay the wolves?
  • nedclark
    I am appalled...

    ...yet there could be one potential bright-side to this; imagine Ted Nugent performing abroad, when an unmanned drone picks up- and follows his trail of bilge and bile, and fires a missile into the spewing source...
  • enorceht
    (Dennis Blair) said US counter-terrorism officials may try to kill American citizens embroiled in extremist groups overseas with "specific permission" from higher up.

    like this has not already been done ... it's only a legal legal brief away, better call john yoo because the government don't only want the right to kill fellow citizens abroad ... why take a trip so far from home when there's a ready supply of americans right outside the door
  • no-prophet-here
    It is simply amazing the comments you see on these news stories today...anyway, the only thing I can say as an American citizen, what happened to innocent before proven guilty? When they start targeting 'Americans' anywhere overseas, it is just a matter of 'moments' until they target them in Indiana, Florida, or even D.C. - oops, probably not D.C., you wouldn't want to take out any of the criminals actually committing treason, would you? How'z that change workin' out for ya now, Buckey? Get yer bullets, beans and band aids ready, cuz yer gonna need'm reeeaaaal sooooon!
  • Tyler Durden
    That's it. Time to start assassinating the rich and powerful. After a few dozen executions, they'll get the idea.
  • carol h.
    Hey, this is the New America. There are no laws we don't break. After all as we have seen, no one ever pays. At least no one in the government. Only people out of government.
  • battle4seattle
    I also don't understand how an assassination program of any kind, let alone against American citizens, is constitutionally justifed. Don't we all have a right to life, liberty and property? As I understand it, this right cannot be taken away, by the government, without due process of law.

    An assasination program, or "kill list," seems to nullify not only our 1st Amendment rights but also our 5th Amendment rights. I suppose Mr. Bush and Obama think the War Authorization the idiodic Congress gave President Bush after 9/11 now gives them this absolute power. Congress must repeal that act immediately!
  • no-prophet-here
    Duh...yep leave it to Congress, they can do it - ya moron!
  • Keith S.
    Greenwald's comment "to allow the President to kill American citizens not on an active battlefield during combat" is certainly 'rose-colored', and shows how out of touch he really is. Not on an active battlefield? Where was the battlefield on 9/11? Where was the battlefield around Richard Reid? We are a Nation at War, and this war is NOT simply fought in some far away land that most American's will never see. This war is fought in the meeting rooms and safehouses of hundreds of countries littered around the world, it's fought in various World Banking systems across the globe, and it's fought on the Internet every day. Wake up people!
  • airjackie
    Not one person or Law Maker had a problem when Cheney had his Assassination Squad and even killed Pat Tillman with not problem. Now it's all Obama's fault and the GOP are going after him. Most Americans accepted all the War Crimes Bush/Cheney did and look forward to more when we get a Republican President back in Office. Obama is attacked because of one reason only he's black and racist can't deal with that.
  • Kurt O
    Is it not truly amazing that we've come to this? Does this discussion not just blow you away?

    Should our government be purposefully targeting and slaughtering U.S. abroad?

    Gee, is it fascism yet?
  • Eyeball_Kid
    Of course, the intelligence community NEVER makes a mistake. They NEVER have to look at all of the evidence. They NEVER have to anticipate unintended consequences. They NEVER have to worry about a mistaken identity... because they don't have to be accountable to anyone for "collateral damage."

    Next time you're overseas, think about this. Imagine, if you will, that there is a real criminal out there who has a similar name or similar appearance. Imagine what can happen if a CIA assassin identifies YOU as the target, becomes judge, jury, and executioner, and nails you while you're heading into an art museum or pub, while your spouse is 5 feet behind you.

    "... oh. You mean I hit the wrong person? Oh... sorry about that... Time for lunch..."
  • Keith S.
    Do you even read what you are writing?? Get a clue my friend. No, the intelligence community is FAR from perfect, and yes mistakes are made. However, if we waited for 'perfect' intelligence then we would not stop most of the attacks against our way of life. I think there is a huge margin for improvement in the way our intelligence services work, but give them SOME credit.
  • Tyler Durden
    They deserve no credit, only contempt, for they ARE the enemy.

    CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.

    This scenario has been repeated so many times that the CIA actually teaches it in a special school, the notorious "School of the Americas." (It opened in Panama but later moved to Fort Benning, Georgia.) Critics have nicknamed it the "School of the Dictators" and "School of the Assassins." Here, the CIA trains Latin American military officers how to conduct coups, including the use of interrogation, torture and murder.

    The Association for Responsible Dissent estimates that by 1987, 6 million people had died as a result of CIA covert operations. (2) Former State Department official William Blum correctly calls this an "American Holocaust."
  • Eyeball_Kid
    There are a few investigative films available for download: "Fool Me Twice", about the Bali Bombings, There's "77 Ripple Effect", about the London 2005 bombings. And, of course, there are a plethora of 9/11 investigative films, all of which suggest a common set of tactics for setting up and executing false flag operations.
  • xpiolt
    .

    You can either keep playing the Divide & Conquer game that was designed for you by the false left/right paradigm through sites like the Drudge Report/RawStory or you can become educated in the truth. The left twists it to the right and the right twists it to the left. The Neo-Cons and the Neo-Liberals are in collusion and have no party of their own so they have hijacked the Democrat and the Republican Partys to work their game of deception. It's time to wake up. It is time now! I know this is a neo-liberal new site but I also know not all liberals are asleep and many have woke up because of neo-liberal Obama just as has many conservatives have woken up to the neo-con Bush. Real news sites don't attack sides, they attack the source, the Globalist elites that are trying to destroy this country from the inside out. The Banksters are the New World Order and they love Drudge and Rawstory, they love neo-cons and neo-liberals and the false/right left paradigm. They are the architects of Divide & Conquer.

    Intel Boss Blair: Government Plans to Kill Citizens http://www.prisonplanet.com/red-alert-intellige...

    .
  • xpiolt
    .

    You can either keep playing the Divide & Conquer game that was designed for you by the false left/right paradigm through sites like the Drudge Report/RawStory or you can become educated in the truth. The left twists it to the right and the right twists it to the left. The Neo-Cons and the Neo-Liberals are in collusion and have no party of their own so they have hijacked the Democrat and the Republican Partys to work their game of deception. It's time to wake up. It is time now! I know this is a neo-liberal new site but I also know not all liberals are asleep and many have woke up because of neo-liberal Obama just as has many conservatives have woken up to the neo-con Bush. Real news sites don't attack sides, they attack the source, the Globalist elites that are trying to destroy this country from the inside out. The Banksters are the New World Order and they love Drudge and Rawstory, they love neo-cons and neo-liberals and the false/right left paradigm. They are the architects of Divide & Conquer.

    Intel Boss Blair: Government Plans to Kill Citizens http://www.prisonplanet.com/red-alert-intellige...

    .
  • Gamewriter
    "We don't target people for free speech," he said. "We target them for taking action that threatens Americans."
  • jerseygirl
    Obviously "found guilty by a jury of your peers" has become a thing of the past for American Citizens. Won't be long now folks, before if they believe you have associated with terrorists, they can just kill you here too. Wow, that makes me feel safe! These are the same people who can tell the difference between an 8 year old boy and a terrorist on the watch list. Oh, right, the watch list is pretty much junk. How soon before they decide to kill the boy when he is overseas? After all, he's on the list so he must be guilty. We are morally bankrupt when it comes to the war on terror. Shot first, ask questions later.
  • Eyeball_Kid
    Who needs a trial when you can just pull the trigger and let God sort it out?

    As I mentioned in a previous post, it's the CIA that can make an error and not be accountable. If you're similar in name or appearance, you can have your head blown off in front of your spouse and children, OR, if alone, you can be suicided with no chance of an independent autopsy, i.e. David Kelly.

    ... another murderous policy adapted to the Obama Administration, with no objection, no protest.
  • mick
    first they came for the .......... but I was not one, then they...


    Investigate 911 or die without trial .
  • Ridiculous
    "We don't target people for free speech," he said. "We target them for taking action that threatens Americans."

    So, by that logic, you target yourselves??!
  • joblo
    They are making the transition from " Fear the enemies outside" to "Fear the enemies within". The U.S. has always had dangerous groups within its borders, they aren't usually taken as seriously as a well funded ( with your tax dollars) and established (by the CIA) group like al-qaeda though.
    It's a common tactic used by Authoritarian Governments.
  • jlowelld
    "Resolve then that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blasts on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us."
    --Walt Kelly, The Pogo Papers, 1953
  • judyinnm
    "As of 9/14/2001 - Passes House without amendment.
    Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attackes that occurred on September 11,2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts.....against the United States..."

    Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the Congress of these United States did indeed give the president the right to do whatever HE deems necessary to whomever HE determines is a threat. No "due process' required. No limitations on whom (US citizen, an organization he doesn't like or doesn't like him, perhaps(?)) or where (US or anywhere else), Georgejr had this authority and used it, Obama has not renounced it. THIS Supreme Court would uphold it.
  • Shane
    Intimidate the citizens of the United states so that they fall in line. We the people possess the same legal justification to assassinate any and all federal officials who threaten the liberty of the people.

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” -Second Amendment

    [82] However, "whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government."[83]"[84] However, "when a long train of abuses and usurpation, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,it is their right, it is their duty to throw off such Government, and provide new Guards for their future security."[85] - Declaration of Independence
  • Rush Goofbaugh
    We are the terrorist... my friend.... And we’ll keep on killing... till the end... cause we are the terrorist... we are the terrorists... no time for losers.... cause we are the terrorists............ OF THE WORLD..........
  • elizabeth44
    What ever happened to "due process"? We are losing our judicial system at an increasing rate.
  • matticusfinch
    Welcome to the Fourth Reich, where you can be deemed an enemy combatant (Terrorist) at the will of the president. Land of the free......
  • thx1138
    .
    DISLOYAL AMERICANS, PEACENIKS, AND ACLU, TO BE RENDITIONED AND EXECUTED BY MIC

    -- U.S. Director Of Intelligence Describes "Final Solution" For Protecting American Fatherland --

    -- Govt Hopes To Expand Plan To Include War Protesters, Unpatriotic Bloggers, Bad Creditors -
    .
  • Tony
    If it is legal, then it is not murder.
  • judyinnm
    ...And to paraphrase Richard Nixon, "If the President does it that means it's legal."
  • the higher-ups
    First of all... this headline is asinine (but it did get me to read the article so I guess it worked). Second, who exactly gets to deem who a terrorist again? CIA? Homeland Security? Black Water? And how do we know the next Administration won't be "careless or wreckless"? The CIA has been creating terror around the world without it coming to light of day and I doubt it will stop anytime soon.
  • Sick of The Dog and Pony Show
    The 'war on terrah' is their wet dream.
    Never a defined enemy, never a defined target, never a defined conclusion.
    A Never Ending Source of Money for The Military Industrial Complex at the expense of the taxpayer.
    And now, your SCOTUS has made it acceptable for foreign corporations to buy your elections.
    Rock on America !
  • Clint
    There"s your hope and change!!!

    These people are just batsh*t insane!! Another sign of a ruling elite hanging by a thread and ready to crash.
  • quincunx
    Story continues below...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Bush gave the CIA, and later the military, authority to kill U.S. citizens abroad if strong evidence existed..."

    Obviously, for Sept. 11, 2001, Bush had given the CIA much broader authority...
  • iconoclasm
    NOTICE HOW IT'S GETING LIKE ISRAEL AROUND HERE?

    KEEP WATCHING, IT'LL GET WORSE!
  • joblo
    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Jason
    Legally Murder a citizen of the United States? What happened to the foundations of our system of Jurisprudence? Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law...... Caveat is only if you stay within the borders of the United States? God given inalienable rights of all human beings is to be secure against unwarranted aggression. Who do these people think they are? Not in my name.
  • justadood
    unfortunately, that rationale won't produce the desired result---and it can also be used in reverse...If US government functionaries have the power to execute American Citizens abroad without due process, then in theory, American Citizens can execute US Government functionaries similarly, being subject to the local jusrisdiction's laws and procedures only.

    This is a can of worms I really don't think we-the-US should be trying to open......


    Is that what you *really* want, Mr. Blair?
  • thelonegunman
    soooo, the thought process goes something like this:

    i have a GREAT idea for our war of (er, on) terror! instead of letting terrorists kill americans abroad, WE'LL DO IT!!!!
  • thrashertm
    Hope and Change has NO RESPECT for the Constitution. NONE!!!!

    Wake the fuck up!!!!!
  • LibDog
    I don't have a problem with that. I'd like to see a few anti-American extremists targeted in this country too. It's time we stop allowing all their sob stories about how they became misguided, confused or angry because of something that happened during their childhood. Catch them in the act, prosecute the bastards on the battlefield.
  • joblo
    GOOD IDEA!! Lets KILL People because they are ANGRY!!!

    Hmmmm????yeah
  • progressivetype
    "Lib"Dog....Can you guess how tired progressives are of idiots like you finger pointing loud angry greedy gun loving supposed christian mostly white sexually inadequate males that basically hate everyone else that won't kow tow to your self righteous capitalistic indignation. My guess is no.
  • LibDog
    Actually I'm a liberal, athiest, anti-capitalist, have four sons, monogomous, still sexually active at 60, an IQ of 134, pro-choice and I still have faith in the man I helped put in the White House.
    I said "I'd like to see a 'few' anti-American 'extremists' targeted in this country too."
    You got a problem with me being sick of assholes such as these teabaggers that threaten the security and safety of my family with their fucking threats like "the ballot box or the bullet box"?
    You're goddamn right I'm indignant.
  • joblo
  • progressivetype
    Hmmm, then why is it you sort of sound just like "them" and I interpret your entry as the same intolerant voice? Where's that be the change you want to see in others? Where is wearing life like a loose garment thing???? I too "hate" them, but mostly I fear them and the lousey future bizarro world they seem to want to create for my children and yours. Sorry to say you were sexually inadequate, kudos!
    (PS I don't have much hope for Obama, new boss same as the old boss). Peace.
  • Savantster
    Sounding like "them" is rooted in being human. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, so "they" aren't always 100% wrong no all issues. "They" happen to be 99% wrong on 99% of the issues, but that doesn't mean human beings in general don't get frustrated, angry, and on occasion, make the realization that sometimes people have to die for the greater good.

    The issue becomes, what is the greater good? For "them", it's anything that lets them do anything they want, even if others suffer.. That doesn't jive with logic, reason, decency, or the Constitution "they" pretend to care about.

    being the change you want to see in others ends when it becomes clear that those others are going to kill you if you don't act. Intolerance of intolerance is not a bad thing, and in fact, is reasonable. The problem is attempting to apply the spirit of tolerance as applied to "all humans deserve to be treated decently" and switch it to "all people have a right to act any way they chose, and the tolerant facilitate that". We don't tolerate rape. We don't tolerate murder. We don't tolerate theft. Why should we tolerate hate and abuse through the political system?

    While I agree with LibDog on "feeling", I'm not willing to be the first one out there shooting. I'll defend myself if need be, but I don't condone preemption because it can't be applied equally (the logic can be twisted and used against decent people; self defense from violence can not be twisted--the bad person shoots first and the righteous defends themselves). But I suspect, in practice, LibDog isn't happy about our government killing people outside of Due Process.
  • joblo
    Don't forget about all the communists, eco terrorists, and anarchists while we're at it!!!

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression."
    Chew on that for a minute.
  • dotmafia
    why is this a surprise to anyone?

    the u.s. has "legally" murdered millions of people around the globe since vietnam, why should u.s. citizens be treated any different? does this also apply to bank ceo's and members of the bush administration for the economic and terrorist warfare they waged against the american public? i guess if you rape americans of trillions of dollars and destroy their economy, constitution and reputation -- it's no problem!
  • NadePaulKuciGravMcKi
    '92 Perot '96 Perot
    '00 Nader '04 Nader
    '08 Nader Paul Kucinich Gravel McKinney

    Israel-first dual-national AIPAC
    Anthrax intimidation
    Wall Street theft
    9/11 cover up
    Media liars
    FED scam
  • quincunx
    I heard they are slow in taking names off their list.. Some people are still on, like
    Patrick Henry
    Thomas Jefferson
    Robert E. Lee
    Jack Reed
    Emma Goldman
    John Kennedy


    Exactly, when does this become 'thought policing'?
    Are the British still mad that we wouldn't fight like men, but would shoot at them from behind trees and run?
    Gee, I wonder if I can take out life insurance for $55 billion and then take a vacation to Taliban Theme Park in sunny Afgannystanny... Thanks for coming clean, CIA! Soon my dying mother could get that operation she needs and a Ferrari, too!
    Ever wonder if they outsource this denial of civil rights and murder to 'third parties' who have no quams about violating an American's 'old fashioned' rights?
    What if the 'terrorist' was in the American military? Thank you, Pat Tillman, for your sacrifice in Afganistan, but your revealing book would have destroyed George Bush's little fun.
    And of course, when the CIA admits it now, it has been going on for much longer and they are STILL not leveling with us...
  • This nut-sack thinks he's judge, jury, & executioner!
  • The Deliverer
    I think you need to wake up to the smell of coffee, my friend. If you are not informed, you are only blowing in the wind. The left /right paradigm is not working anymore, and we need to stand together, and see who the real enemy is. Enough blaming people in the middle east. it's pretty clear who created this nonsense, and they have admitted to it. With this failed stunt they pulled on xmas day, I think those are solid grounds for prosecution, and incarceration.
  • EnderW
    I think we need to investigate the Radical Right wing... Terrorist militia groups... Insurrectionists... Sounds like the definition of "Enemy Combatant" to me.

    I know a guy in Lindsey Graham's own state, one who even campaigned for Graham, that has a whole TERROROST arsenal in his house, and brags openly about how he wants to use it. I'd classify him as a fucking enemy combatant in the same vein as al-Qaida.

    No wonder Lindsey Graham is scared.

    Did you join the Taliban?

    What's your problem?
  • no-prophet-here
    So what exactly is a 'terrorist arsenal', anyway? Ever seen it, or are you just part of the dis-information shill crowd that haunts sites like this? Long ago, when they decided to actually try to write a Declaration of Independence and a Constitution, there were folks that went to a Hill called Bunker, who now would be classified as terrorists - we called them revolutionaries. Do you have a pair of anything between your legs - testes or lips - or do you just intend to lay down and let the fricking criminals in D.C. whisk you away to a camp, or simply put you to the wall and pull the trigger. Wake up, wake up! The government IS the problem, and it's coming to your house real soon!
  • joblo
    Don't forget about all the communists, eco terrorists, and anarchists while we're at it!!!

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression."
    Chew on that for a minute.
  • DesertWren
    "...for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
    Thomas Paine must be spinning in his grave.
  • carbonpaper
    It's not terrorism unless they're killing people. Vandalism is not terrorism.
  • joblo
    oh, and terrorism in the U.S. is so loosely defined that it doesn't have to be killing. "Illegal means of coercion" is the government's defintion of terrorism.
  • joblo
    setting a facility on fire is pretty is life threatening if you ask me. Molotovs and rocks thrown by anarchists at police seem dangerous. Im sure some people in those groups have weapons too. A militia guy owning a rifle is no different than an anarchist making a molotov , even if just for practice.
  • Dr. Matt
    The government should be targeting the domestic terrorist teabagging hicks at home.
  • dennycrane
    Sort of like what happened to randy weavers wife?
  • seen2much
    Careful Denny, sayin' stuff like that can put a mil-dot on you PDQ. Like I said earlier, just a matter of time before they start dropping hellfire missiles on wedding parties here in the US.
  • no-prophet-here
    Where do you live? I'll let them know you would like to be targeted...
  • joblo
    Don't forget about all the communists, eco terrorists, and anarchists while we're at it!!!

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression."
    Chew on that for a minute.
  • inghamd
    and like AJ says, it's open, in your face, illegal, immoral and horrible.
    Wrap us up in the flag and terrorize the planet.
  • azhermit
    the sociopaths have taken over... wrapped in Old Glory and carrying the Cross of Salvation. Zieg Heil! You're next.
  • michaelvalentine
    More change that I can't believe in.
  • jimbo92107
    This may seem like a damning admission, but none of it matters if nobody is willing to investigate and prosecute these crimes. Eric Holder, where are you? Why won't you do your job?
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