Minimum wage is not a living wage, it's a living with mom and dad wage. So how would lowering it even more help either people who are desperately trying to make ends meet or people who wouldn't have enough money to get by from a new job with a lowered minimum wage?
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I hate assholes who call for lowering the minimum wage.
Why?
Because, there are skilled workers who deserve high wages, and there are assholes who would take advantage of highly skilled/educated people, for peanuts.
It`s like this:" I got mine screw you." I hate people who will try to take me for a ride, and these characters are disgusting.

"What destroyed Detroit was unions. People who are worth X were paid X+Y.
This made them uncompetavie and is the reason why we buy cars from other
countries now. Get rid of the unions and we can start making cars again."

Hahaha, it can hardly be overstated how ignorant Libertarians are of economic realities. Always some pie-in-the-sky theoretical economy that never was, nor ever will be.

Let's see: GM posts huge profits for years with union autoworkers. When the unions negotiate a new contract, say in 1950, they based it on the prior contract years profits (or loses.) Sometimes raises, sometimes wage cut and benefit cuts: reality based.

So, let's say for sake of argument that the UAW negotiated a pension level for retiring autoworkers in 1950. This would come to an amount per auto. Every auto or truck sold meant a profit, and a set amount to place in pension funds. Is it that hard to comprehend, ga-bore?

The next year, the money should have been saved in escrow by GM. They still made a profit, huge profits, up until just 5 or 6 years ago. Billions and billlions and billions, all with those dreadful union workers, earning enough to pay for groceries, homes, their children's education, taxes to fund city and state services. Enough to keep software programmers overpaid (and btw, I am quite certain there are software programmers in India that will be happy to do your job for 25% of what you are overpaid, and I think your job should be off-shored to them, l so you can get out there and fight for one of those non-minimum, non-living wage jobs you like to discredit as "lowly). And still GM had enough left over so their execs can have $50,000 gold toilets to crap in.

Decades and decades of huge profits. Yet somehow, after mismanagement of the corporation, and years of million dollar salaries and bonuses for execs and ridiculous salaries for folks that do piddly little tasks like program computers, it's the "union's fault" automakers aren't profitable.

You have no clue: Toyota isn't profitable now. Nissan isn't either, nor Honda's auto division: Detroit union autoworker's fault, genius?

How much of Toyota is owned by GM? Who built the cars that made the profits for GM to purchase Toyota stock: software programmers?

You call me a child: I'm 54. You told me I "should go to a communist country" when I correctly stated minimum wages create a level playing field, and pointed out that the government already has "minimum wage" standards for the last SEVENTY EIGHT years. THEN you ignore that FACT, and try desperately to change the subject.
Like other commenters have correctly pointed out to you, to no avail, you only hear your own voice yapping.

Best comment from you? "How we should be happy to ship jobs to China, as it gives TWO CHINESE WORKERS jobs for the price of one US worker." While telling me I should move to a communist country.

Do you have any clue how damn ignorant you are?? No, you do not.
Now you tell me that I "don't think" that I should "not watch television."

For your information, if I watched tv, which I do not, ever, I wouldn't understand it anyway, as I live in Thailand. No Fox news here, ga-bore.

I realize it is a waste of time to point out easily understood facts, like the fact minimum wage earners pour back their wages immediately into the economy, creating demand. Obviously, even simple facts are not comprehended by you.

But you wish to change the subject to something about how does DOD get their money, and how that is going to lead to doom and despair...and maybe the sky will fall on Austrian economists, too.

Maybe it will: doesn't change the fact that what I stated is true, and that you weren't even aware of the 1931 "Davis- Bacon" wage act.

So, yes, I think you need an education in reality. Yes, I am a small businessman. No, you are not. Yes, I have employed many workers, sometime more, sometimes less, depending upon projects signed.

And no, never ONCE did I EVER get rid of a worker because I had to pay a minimum wage required by law.

Why? Because ALL my competitors had to do the same: it's called, one more time for the hard-to-comprehend crowd: A level playing field.

You have a nice day, ga-bore. But please do not go wandering off into the major leagues here: you should stay in the minors, where your sophomoric "logic" passes for wisdom. I guess we could your afflication the "Palin Syndrome."

This is all part of the Fox News war on the lower classes

This way people will be distracted from saying, "hey increase taxes on the rich people"

Fox News knows they will never decrease minimum wage, but they know if they put the pressure on saying minumum wage will be decreased, people will settle for it not being raised

These people have done so much damage to America it is beyond ridiculous

How about lowering the salaries of anchors on FAUX??? Are they trying
to create a lower, lower class? Elitests!

Yeah right, lowering the minimum wage will be good for the kids working at McDonalds and great for hotel maids and gardeners and so on. Why should these people make 300 a week before taxes ? Another scoop by Faux News. Lets file this with Climate change denial and Creationism and the ever popular " health care is fine the way it is " Seriously , do the conservatives have even one positive idea ?

Landmark study...whatever.

Minimum wage reduces the number of jobs. Period. Money doesn't grow on businesses (or governments for that matter)

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/miwnimum.htm
http://www.seattlepi.com/opinion/298451_will05....
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba499

OK! I am agree, I propose to pay the minimum wage to James Rosen and all workers in FOX News. Many of the anchors in the big news channels make almost a million a year ...for reading news!, incredible! In this video they talk about the increase on the minimum wage in the past years but they don't mention the increase of the cost of life in the same time. Basically the minimum wage of 20 years ago compared to the cost of life at that time is the same of today with the same comparison. This mean people are not making more money it is just the same.

anyone who argues for no minimum wage obviously doesnt work for that wage themselves. there are two types of right wingers, the rich, and the poor and dumb. get a clue. ktnx

Gabor4u a persons wants are not demand.
A persons wants which they have the financial ability to pay for, that is demand.
You have infinite WANTS. Not infinite demand.
The difference is key. As you said, just because you want something does not mean you can afford it. Therefore your DEMAND for that product is considered nonexistent, unless you can afford it.
Now this is how the economy works, listen close its somewhat complex.
The way SUPPLY is changed is through investment. I want to produce more shoes, I build another shoe factory, thats investment. Now where do I get the money to do that? I borrow it from a bank. Now. How does the bank have that money? People's savings, which are then loaned by the bank.
Win/win yes? The saver gets an interest rate, and the borrower can build their new factory.
But what happens if demand falls? I mean actual demand, the demand with the ability to pay.
What happens is the company has no need to invest, and in fact, it's previous investments even become unprofitable. Then the company needs to shed capital (i.e. those unneccessary investments) and labour (the people who work those unneccessary investments) and UNEMPLOYMENT occurs. What happens then? The savings that were in the bank will stop gaining value, because there is nowhere for investment to occur, and thus no way for interest rates to rise, and people now have to spend their savings as they are no longer as wealthy. Savings disappear. Investment can no longer occur even if people wanted to invest, because the savings no longer exist for them to do so with. And the unemployment, and demand, STABILISE at the LOWER level than previously.
That is a depression.

Now. Lets look at this again. How do WAGES equate to demand? Well, when wages are higher, demand is higher, because of course someone earning $15k a year is more likely to spend all of it than someone earning $2 million a year who is likely to save most of it. So if wages are higher, demand is higher, and savings are lower. Investment can continue as demand continues to rise. If a greater proportion of money is saved than is spent (i.e. goes to a smaller proportion of richer people) then demand falls, investment falls, unemployment rises and overall wealth decreases, because there is nowhere for savings to go, so they cannot gain value.

...Your economics doesn't work. Mine does.

Lol, it's very easy to suggest lowering minimum wage when you have a collage education and a six figure annual income.

If you're not making what you want at a certain job, nobody's asking you to be there. See, removing the minimum wage would create competition in the labor market. Say I'm making 4.50 an hour at an unskilled janitorial job working for a hotel. The hospital across the street is hiring at 6.50 an hour. Who am i going to work for? Minimum wage applies to unskilled labor (thats why you go to school people!), every company needs it, but different types of companies are going to offer different wages. With this type of market, it will force certain companies to hire at a competitive wage.

Let's look at this from an accounting standpoint, because thats what the fatcats running these companies do. They don't care about economics or the economy in general, as long as their earnings are stable. And theres nothing that we can do to change that. I guess the government can do something about it, but then they would be encroaching upon freedom (more than they already are right now).

But anyway, back to the accounting standpoint.
Say your small company is spending $50,000 in salary expense for all the company's workers, but your revenues are down this quarter, and you need it to be about $35,000. You have two choices--lower the workers wages, or lay off some workers.
But theres a binding price floor on the cost of labor (the minimum wage), so lowering the worker's wages is out.
I guess some people are out of jobs.

CEO's bonuses dont fall under the salaries expense account, though. They depend on a company's retained earnings---and, in short, the less the salaries expense, the more the retained earnings.

I don't know what everyone here is smoking, but if I was being paid lower than minimum wage, I would quit my job. Even if I could not find another job for awhile I would still be making more off of unemployment than sticking with the shitty job.

I still hold even with the study that business have in the past, currently and will always in the future threaten to lay off employees if minimum wage is increased. They always plead innocence and that the government has them completely handcuffed in the situation. I'm still curious how a wage can stay fixed a certain rate for a decade without ever taking into consideration inflation. Though I'm no economics major maybe some can clarify to me how inflation is a non factor when considering a minimum wage.

Minimum wage will go up. Companies that already had the room to lay off people will do so do to the new costs. Not like the company wouldn't do the same thing if they had a bad quarter and no minimum wage increase. Though a company that depends on 10 people to run and can't possible run without 10 people. Which also can't afford to pay their employees more do to the minimum wage increase will find room in margins, energy savings, or simple increase product flow and reduce number of hours worked by the employees. Get paid more, do more its only fair.

I don't want to be insulting, but they probably didn't quote quote an academic source because it's taken as a property of supply and demand. If you'd care to look at Wikipedia's page on minimum wage, you'll have seen where their argument comes from.

A quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage
According to the model shown in nearly all introductory textbooks on economics, increasing the minimum wage decreases the employment of minimum-wage workers

Fox's argument is simply the inverse.

Before you rant on me, I am not a fan of Fox news, nor do I agree with most (any?) of their viewpoints. I think it's fair to say that your argument against them is as biased, one-sided, and prejudicial as Fox's was in the first place.

I find it odd the inflation has missed all of you buy. My example will be this. At one time I could earn a wage of $2.50/hr cutting lawns as a kid. Now the cheapest I get a kid on my block to do it for is $5.00/hr and I assure you this is the going rate. Has the value of the job truly doubled in the past twenty years when the grass and equipment haven't advanced considerable ? The answer of course is no the job remains the same but the fuel (gasoline) itself has increased do to inflation. As with all jobs the cost to feed the worker come lunch time, the insurance on their car (can't drive without it legally the government says), the gas they put in their car to get to work. OH they take the bus you say. Well how about the unionized bus driver who had his/her wage increased so bus fair went up to counter this. Now the worker catching the bus is paying that extra 25 to 50 cents a trip per day. The fact is minimum wage hasn't been increased in 10 years. I assure you the wage increase is just off setting the inflation rate hike over those 10 years. Your argument to reduce wage to encourage business owners to hire on more people is a step backwards in history. Your asking the poor to starve themselves to help the poor.

Don't worry though you can sluff off my idea of inflation because I'm actually Canadian. Even with the exchange we pay our students better then you pay your poorest. Minimum wage here doesn't even come close to matching a Cost of Living Wage which I hope to see implemented here very soon. Businesses that can afford the wage grow stronger because employees appreciate the wage offered them in life and that they can build a life free of the stress of constant bills. Living paycheck to paycheck is not living, its surviving.

Only outsourcing fall out that has occured here has been from American companies seeking cheaper wages. In return the product took a quality hit and we now see in the news massive recalls of products costing millions and tarnishing companies. Companies that kept factories here and workers at their wages continue to succeed and the companies are growing (I'm thinking GM vs Honda), even taking on nearly an additional 1000 employees.

Yeah Fox while you're at it why not just eliminate the 13th amendment ? Its not like the constitution means anything anymore. Thank You greedy blood sucking corporate America for turning America into a 3rd world country!

Why am I posting as a "guest" all the sudden?

Pay what the work that your employees are doing for you is,otherwise those employees will walk out the door, leaving you to scramble to get new people in and when you insist paying slave wages, it is your business, that will fall apart. Let me give you an example: I was working for a auto service company, and the owner insisted in paying slave wages,and getting unpaid extra hours from everyone.The result:every one left, his business fell apart, he closed up shop. The moral of this post is, people will not put up with nonsense.

if the government lowers the minimum wage then all workers and companies will have the same wage. They can leave if they want, but the minimum wage will be the minimum wage.

What if the work they do is worth more than minimum wage? Are you saying that highly skilled workers should be paid minimum wage?

The idea of cutting wages would actually benefit workers. While the idea of receiving a lower wage is hard to accept this is what would have to happen if the economy were to recover on its own without government intervention. Lower wages mean that businesses have a lower input cost, therefore they can supply more, moving the aggregate supply curve to the right. This increase in supply lowers prices and lower prices lead to more demand and we settle at at a point of increased output with lower prices.
Furthermore, lowering the minimum wage would allow businesses to hire more workers, lowering the rate of unemployment. Think about it. If a business has $1000 to spend on wages and minimum wage is $10 (for the sake of easy math) then the business can have 100 workers. If the minimum wage is reduced to $8 then they can now hire 120 employees.

GABOUR4U: Let me explain something: Little people like you like to hire gentleman who are worth $20 an hour for $5 an hour, you demand something as unreasonable as an university education for a little job like cleaning yards, or chopping firewood or taking out the trash, or some other little job,and when you do not have any takers you have the nerve to whine.And before you get uppity let me tell you I know what I am talking about, I have seen it repeatedly.You little losers make me sick.

Before we are so gung ho to cut wages of Americans even more, how about trying something different? How about an immigration moratorium for starters? How about hiring more immigration officers to engage in strict border enforcement? How about implementing e-verify and making it federal law that employers and landlords and state welfare agencies use it before they hire or house or help people? If anyone is buying the fallacy that there are ONLY twelve million illegal aliens living in this country, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale. Quintuple that number. Evict those intruders and you have many job openings without a trillion dollar stimulus or lowering the minimum wage.

How about not? How about instead, a little less xenophobia.

P.S. -- I'm sure your relatives can prove they came here legally and worked legally all throughout your immigrant history, right?

You are correct. My ancestors respected the immigration laws of this country and came here legally through Ellis Island. They also learned English instead of expecting the country to communicate with them in their mother tongue.

What do you call a woman who loves other people's children so much she takes clothing off the backs of her own children and food out of their mouths to give them? I would call that a bad mother.

Charity begins in the home. We need to take care of our own first and stop taking in other countries' problem children. Evict the intruders, send the all home, and nail the door shut behind them!

Actually, Fox news is technically right.

Minimum wage creates a surplus, which makes more unemployment and dead weight loss. It's a price floor - it really is that simple. Cutting minimum wage would reduce the price floor and bring it down, reducing unemployment and increasing employment; however, people would be getting paid less, which is a problem. At the same time, it is creating more jobs. It's a fine balance that must be held.

lets bring back the "company store" and all those other wonderful ideas that stimulated the economy, not for the worker, but for the owners. YEAH!!!! thats where some of these jacks want to return. "work for me , and i own you".

May I point out that Henry Ford, the John Galt of his time, paid his laborers much higher than the prevailing wages he could have for the mindless work on an assembly line. "Why?" asked people incredulously. Because, this millionaire genius said (when millions meant something), "Because then they can buy my cars!".

The supposed "John Gaults" in this section think that this world is like Ann Ryan says it is, that all people can know the value of someone else’s work - but not all people are like . But the truth is, if they care to recognize it, is that there are exploitive people in the world and sheeple who will be fleeced.

In countries that have laws (written by good government) that are enforced (by good government) we see that the standard of living is improved, and that includes mandating safe working conditions, minimum wages, even benefits. Note that when laws are not enforced, such as allowing illegal immigration, sweatshops, etc the net effect is to behave like and become a third world country.

I recommend to those who say minimum wage is a detriment look at a modern Ford/Gault - of today James Sinegal, CEO of Costco. It is real, conscionable people like this who don't need laws to make the world a better place. And to those unenlighted jackasses who think that government (provided it is working towards a more perfect union) is an impediment, please note that there aren't any real Atlases that can shrug. If they think the world is falling apart because laws are needed by the whole, but not them, then I invite them to shrug and see if they can work with everyone attempting to minimum. The real Gaults are INVESTING in others to build equipment, create improved processes that increase the standard of living to all! They are not worried about reducing the wage of another human being to enrich themselves, as ultimately (I could go on with extensive examples) they won't.

Just answer one question, and I'll agree with your point of view?
What person DESERVES a $24,000,000 annual salary, like the CEO of Aetna!

Capping executive salaries would also free up revenue for increased employment. Let's start there.

Hmmm, Michael Steele wants to trash unemployment benefits and Fox wants to lower the minimum wage. When is it ever enough for these sadistic bastards? Are the upper echelons not fat enough? They begrudge the smallest pittance to the have-nots, amounts that are not enough to live on to begin with. But that's ok, they can just keep pushing people to utter desperation and suffer the consequences of the inevitable backlash that will someday come. And I hope very much that I am around to witness it.

Why even bother to pay workers? A burger a day is sufficient and a good beating if they slack.
After all that was the economics that built America in the 18th and 19th century.

If the minimum wage is a bad thing then maybe we should just get rid of it completely so the workers could live in a utopia like Calcutta. For my part, I think that while we are thinking of cutting wages we might want to start the cuts at the top rather than at the bottom since the financial wizards have wrecked the economy. Considering that they don't really contribute to society in any worthwhile way, perhaps it would be better to give the money saved from their wage reduction to people who clean up the messes. These are the people we really need. Check out this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/dec/14/...

If the minimum wage is a bad thing then maybe we should just get rid of it completely so the workers could live in a utopia like Calcutta. For my part, I think that while we are thinking of cutting wages we might want to start the cuts at the top rather than at the bottom since the financial wizards have wrecked the economy. Considering that they don't really contribute to society in any worthwhile way, perhaps it would be better to give the money saved from their wage reduction to people who clean up the messes. These are the people we really need. Check out this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/dec/14/...

Slavery ended in England after the Norman Conquest because slaves were taxable. It wasn't an edict by the king or church.

The concept of universal freedom began as a tax dodge.

The Republicans want to rewrite the tax code.

Sure, if we eliminated minimum wage and heck, why not all employee protections altogether, then sure there would be TONS of jobs. Why pay a Chinese worker 50 cents an hour when you could pay an American 40 cents an hour?

Who needs money anyway? Hell at even an astonishingly huge $4.00 per hour, it would only take two and a half years to buy a $20,000 car, assuming you pay no taxes or other living expenses at all. That sounds GREAT for workers doesn't it?

Federal minimum wage law supersedes state minimum wage laws where the federal minimum wage is greater than the state minimum wage. In those states where the state minimum wage is greater than the federal minimum wage, the state minimum wage prevails.

No one cares that 5 states have their minimum wage set lower than the feds as well the other 5 that have no law in place for a minimum wage still doesn't matter. Any state minimum wage law must be equal to or greater than the federal minimum.

Anyone who is for the lowering of or removal of the minimum wage should be forced to work for the minimum wage to see how it feels.

What is it with the GOP and poor people?? They want to drop minimum wage, to balance budgets the cut education, welfare and anything else that help people when they need it?
I say to balance OUR budgets, we cut ALL of the GOP salaries to reflect minimum wage and let them try to live on it.