and speaking of disease, it's been shown that illegals tend to have decent health when they get here, then it deteriorates to the American Standard over time. go figure.

And the part of your post that most will overlook is the real “problem”, and that is the word “border”. Any time you make a line and say “people over here get everything they want and people over there.. fuck you”, you'll have problems. Duh?

The other part of the problem is you're talking about 4 words.. conservative and Conservative and liberal and Liberal. The word Conservative is wrought with ill associations, conservative quite simply means “careful” where liberal means “a lot” and has nothing to do with Liberal. Being “fiscally conservative” is not the same as being fiscally Conservative.. Being fiscally Conservative means pro-corporation at the expense of workers, pro-war spending but not spending money on feeding the poor _at all_, etc. etc.. Being fiscally conservative means not wasting money, such as finding and eliminating waste and fraud.. which doesn't mean you say “let the poor starve to death, I don't care”.

It's a mess, to be sure.. but a fabricated mess to keep everyone distracted while they are abused and looted by the ruling elite. The solution is to abandon the “2 party system” that has co-opted the words and start voting for individuals on their merits, not their party.

The only pertinent question in my mind is, do you condone one person, for their own personal gain, abusing others. The “left” says “no”, the “right-wing” says “of course” or “I have that right”. I'm guessing you're “left” on that issue.

You seem to want to dilute the label, and I'm not sure why. I doubt you'd say a child rapists is “just a human being trying to satisfy some craving.. leave them alone”.

While I agree that Turnip's post is a bit ambiguous for deciding where his political leanings are generally, saying Lou was some how unique or rare in giving air time to things needing to be addressed seems over the top.. and saying you disagree with most of his solutions is ambiguous as well.

The problem is that our society has been so radically divided that most people clearly do fall on one side of the fence or the other. The deceit used to pretend you're not actually a total piece of shit if you're a modern day right-winger is pretty thick in some cases. If you don't know where someone stands, you don't know if they are lying to you or just being honest (and ambiguous).. if they are a right-winger and being ambiguous, they are typically lying..

corruption is destroying the ability to have any kind of rational or civil discourse in this country and this little thread kind of proves it. It was a simple question, and instead of a simple answer, you decided to “put someone into distinct categories”.. and my guess is, in your mind, Jay is some kind of “dirty liberal scum socialist commie dick” .. amiright? Snap judgments are natural, how you act on them is all that matters. Jay asked a question, you insulted him for that because you didn't like the implication of the question, but never bothered to wait for an answer or to find out why the question mattered.. so you're guilty of what you deride others of. Good job. Douchebag seems fitting.

Bye Bye Dobbs.