NYPD tell conductor to seal passengers in with murderer

By Ron Brynaert
Monday, November 23rd, 2009 -- 10:38 am

taking pelham one two three walter matthau dvd cover art NYPD tell conductor to seal passengers in with murderer Update at bottom: Bloomberg angrily defends locking passengers in with murderer

In the remade-twice film "The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3," armed men take passengers on a New York City subway train hostage.

On Saturday, the NYPD effectively informed a train conductor to seal passengers in a subway car with a murderer.

Apparently, creating potential hostage situations is a new crime stopping tactic.

"Nearly 30 petrified passengers were trapped on a Midtown hell train yesterday with a knife-wielding madman and the blood-soaked body of a straphanger he just stabbed to death in a senseless argument over a seat," The New York Post reported Sunday. "The Bronx-bound D train came to a screeching halt at around 2 a.m. in the tunnel between the Rockefeller Center and Seventh Avenue stations when a rider yanked the emergency cord after watching the carnage unfold."

Story continues below...

The paper adds, "The group of riders were stuck in the car behind locked doors as a pool of blood began to form around the dying man and the suspect, Gerardo Sanchez, 37, of The Bronx, coldly stood over him. Eventually, Sanchez strolled to one end of the car, and the rest of the passengers fled to the opposite end."

The Post reports, "Cops relayed word to the operator to keep the car sealed until they arrived — leaving horrified straphangers trapped in with the killer and the body for about five minutes until the doors opened at the station, the sources said."

Monday, the Post seems to be blaming the situation on passengers, warning readers to "think before you pull chord."

Chuck Bennett advises, "If a passenger witnesses a crime or a passenger becomes ill, the cord can be pulled if the train is still at the station but not when it's already departing."

"You can't get help to anyone if the train is between the stations," NYC Transit spokesman Charles Seaton tells the NYC tabloid.

Angry commuters unloaded on the NYPD in Monday's Daily News.

"[They] gambled with a lot of lives," said Richard Kaye, 45, of Morrisania, when asked whether keeping passengers locked inside was the right call.
"God forbid he had stabbed four more people."
"If you lock us in the train, he could go crazy and start killing us, start slashing us," said Gloria Whyte, 34, of Long Island City.
"I wouldn't want to be one of those people stuck in the train with someone who commits murder," said Anne-Marie Christensen, a 28-year-old social worker from the upper East Side. "He's already in a heightened state, so it's dangerous to leave people alone with him."
"What if he'd had a gun?" asked Jonathan Gack, 19. "That would have made everything 10 times worse."

The Daily News notes that only one of the passengers sealed in with the murderer thanked the police for doing "the right thing."

Bloomberg angrily defends locking passengers in with murderer

The newly reelected mayor of New York City believes that it's an outrage - that anyone would be outraged about being locked on a subway car with a murdererer.

Metro International notes, "Mayor Michael Bloomberg angrily defended the NYPD’s decision to lock the doors of an uptown D train Saturday so police could arrest Jerry Sanchez, the alleged subway stabber."

“If you open all the doors and let everyone run in every direction, you would have the murderer back on the street and I don’t think that’s what anybody wants,” said Bloomberg, his face reddening as he answered reporters’ questions on the topic.

The AP notes Bloomberg added, "Letting everybody run in every direction and have a murderer back on the streets doesn't make a lot of sense to me."

Although only one of the thirty trapped passengers, the man who pulled the cord to stop the train initially, told the press that they were fine with the decision, online polls at Huffington Post and the NY Daily News indicate people support this new dangerous crime stopping tactic.

Share this article:

Story comments are below...

Mike Moore
I have listened to Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Ingraham, and the rest, breathlessly ranting about how sick and evil liberals are. So basically when a self-described 'conservative' uses the word liberal anywhere near me, I know that in their minds they are calling me a sub-human piece of shit. Be warned that I will react accordingly.

thomas jefferson
so glad you reelected that asshole now?

tanj
So what if he would have stabbed a few of the passengers to death, they're just New Yorkers right, Maybe we could get lucky and Bloomberg might be on the subway and it is Bloomberg who get killed. No real loss, right Mr Mayor.

Satan
NYC is a scum pit filled with degenerate morons.

SSpeedracer
Perhaps the root cause is that our society created Gerardo Sanchez.

pitbullstew
too bad the passengers didnt do what happened in Los Angeles yeasterday when on a downtown street a woman was shot and killed in broad daylight and the witnesses to the vilonet crime chased the perp down in to the arms of a street cop walking his beat?
Its time to fight back folks.

gr0o
The conductor has no way of knowing why the cord was pulled and the doors are locked between stations. I'm not sure how NYTA & the NYPD were supposed to magically get then off the train and out of the tunnel.

jeffersonperrin
If everyone on that train had been armed, as is the wish of GOP, NeoCon, Independent Republicans, and had pulled their guns and made the split second decision to fire, that evil doer would have been swiss cheese. And, don't bother handing me that bleeding heart crap about some poor innocent getting killed with so many guns blazing away! Sacrifice is necessary if we ever hope to achieve a crime free scociety. Trust me, it wouldn't take long for insane, out of control people to think twice about going over the deep end of sanity...

proudliberal1947
Remember,the police are there to get a py check and whine about the dangers.

These are not police that we have hired it is over paid security guards. I do remember (yes taking time change into consideration) that a domestic call was the unit on seen and a backup now it is swat teams and as many units as possible on seen. To which I accredit the esculation of most violence to.

A bank robbery 500 cops wow I am so innpressed, we US does NOZT have a police force, it has a Police Force that wants a Police State, Arizona is a perfect example. Notice the big excuse that most COPS use, I feel threatened and that is suppose to be justification for doing or NOT doing anything.

Hey NY remember a few years back when the POLICE killed that man from Africa with 24 bullet (or there abouts) oh yes two cops covering him he reaches for a wallet so four cOPS kill him these CLOWNS felt threatened.

Now myself I am trained in Maritial Arts and when a cop stops me and talks the MINUTE he puts on the COP attitude I warn him he is threatening me, the conversation will go what are you saying, I will remind him he is the one with the gun any change in tone or body language and I will take him down ( it helps because I use to instruct the police in take downs), yes they immediately go into defense mode and1 out of every three will try to provoke a confrontation.

The point is the Police have forgotten they are employed "To serve and Protect' it seems they now have the the seve and protect applis to their jobs, Maybe when they drop the Blue Shield Wall and start talking the truth (haha) people will start trustung tem again.

I do support our Police I just believe that their Loyalties are misplaced, you make a bad call admit it and move on one of your own screw up your covering for him and his her buddies makes it twice as bad and you guys (police) are catching it.

OldAtlantic
We need to recognize reality about who is the source of crime and who should be armed. The liberal fallacy is to think everyone is the same.

wakeup32176
30 to 1 would seem to be bad odds for the suspect. But alas, the pussification of America is complete.

Ctcadguy
Men who talk this way do so because they are compensating for a tiny weenie.

wakeup32176
I rest my case.............

enorceht
lets weight the pros and cons (and lets not forget the reason he killed "...senseless argument over a seat.")
Killer pros - crazy, knife, no conscience, and nothing to lose
Passenger pros - none

Killer Cons - none
Passenger cons - maimed, disfigured, death

texasaggie
Right. One guy armed and dangerous with 30 passengers, approximately half of them women, none of them armed, and you think they should have jumped the guy. You first, buddy. Better you should die than 29 innocent passengers.

Are you going to make the same argument for the soldiers at Fort Hood? After all, there were a lot more of them present and only one gun man. Is that the pussification of America?

ex_gijoe
The weirdest thing I ever saw when I was in the army was our Corporal and sergeants freaking out and calling MP's when they saw a soldier from another unit with a pistol. The guy was in some some weapons class and brought it outside the building for some reason. I couldn't believe the reaction. There were 200 of us doing push-ups in the mud and the pussy corporal called MP's.
And this was at a Special Forces Training camp!

Mike Moore
The primary mistake was for the passenger(s) to pull the emergency stop in the first place. This had two effects 1) it locked them in the car with the killer, and 2) it prevented the victim from getting medical treatment.

Wait to get to the next station, and if possible call 911 on your cell phone to have the police and medics ready at the next station. Don't pull the emergency stop UNTIL YOU REACH THE NEXT STATION! Then you will prevent the train from leaving, so that the victim can get help.

willytee
Someone said "what if he had a gun..." What if everyone had a gun? the pos never would have done this to start out with. Why do you look to others to protect you? Take responsibility for your life and stop looking to the state to take care of you.

texasaggie
If everyone had had a gun there would have been a lot of dead people with everyone firing in all directions in an enclosed situation. It doesn't take a lot of grey matter to figure that out.

Mike Moore
So tell me what you would have done if you had been on that train with your sidearm. You are sitting there minding your own business, you see these two guys start arguing, then the next thing you know, one guy is down and the other guy is holding a knife. At this point there are seven or eight passengers between you and the perp. Do you move in and execute the guy at point blank range? Do you move in and point the gun at his head and say "freeze or I'll shoot", and then keep your gun on him till the cops get there? Suppose makes a quick move and grabs another passenger and puts a knife to her throat and orders you to hand over the gun? Are your really going to make that head shot on a moving target with a crowd of innocent bystanders in the background? If he manages to cut the hostages throat before he dies, would you still feel like a hero?

Even if you drop him, you are at extremely close range, what's to stop the bullet from continuing on through the perp and into an innocent bystander.

Suppose while you are pointing your gun at him and yelling orders, his buddy comes up behind you and stabs you in the liver. Now what? You are dead, and the perps have your gun.

Now in your utopia where everyone is armed and properly trained, surely the criminals wouldn't risk bringing a knife to a fun fight. So lets go back to the beginning, but in this case, the perp just shot a man and is now pointing is gun at the crowd telling everyone to get back. Now are you going to pull your gun and try to push through the crowd to get a clear shot? He sees you coming and starts firing into the crowd trying to hit you. You respond by returning fire, but there are ten passengers behind him as well. Maybe he kills you, maybe you kill him, but now you have several more casualties, congratulations, hero.

Now think about the same situation where everyone has a gun. Maybe in that world, all the street thugs would wear designer body armor. Now what are you gonna do, fire armor piercing rounds in a crowded subway car?

In a rural area, owning and carrying a firearm makes perfect sense, but to flap your gums like it would be anything but a recipe for disaster in a city as dense as New York is fool talk.

willytee
Living in Phoenix I carry every day. Open carry is still legal here. It was not the wild west folks like you imagine. Calling people a fool because you disagree is one of the problems in this country today.
I used to be active in supporting the rights of others, even when i didn't see eye to eye. Now do as you please, but expect no help from me. I'll carry my gun with me and you rely on the police.

sergesret
Do you carry in the Phoenix Subway System? Oh, wait...Phoenix has no Subway.

Mike Moore
I lived in Tucson for 7 years. I saw people in McDonalds strapped, and it was cool. But don't tell me that South Tucson, and certain parts of Phoenix aren't the wild west. There were plenty of drive-by's and other gun-related fatalities.

Now Phoenix is a big city, but it has nothing at all to do with New York. In the west there is so much space, in New York you will be elbow to elbow with strangers, literally.

Please don't assume I am against guns, or a believer that the police are going to protect me. I support the whole Bill of Rights, including the right to keep and bear arms. I do not support the assault weapons ban.

That being said, the idea of people using weapons vigilante style on a New York City subway is about as foolish as it gets. I think that a Taser would have been the appropriate weapon in that situation.

dhfsfc
This actually happened to a friend of mine on the NY City subway about 20 years ago. This must be standard operating procedure, but I remember being baffled at the time, that they want to trap someone dangerous with potential victims who are also unable to flee.

slappymagoo
It was a lose-lose scenario. Yeah, by locking in those passengers, their lives were endangered. But on the flip side, if they could've gotten out, the killer could have also gotten out. Either way, he could've gone on a killing spree, only instead of being isolated, he would have had the entire city to choose his next victims.

rickpetes
I'm not familiar with this system, so my question is, "Would the passengers have been in danger from other trains if they had been allowed to exit and get on the tracks? could they have been accidently run over by another train?" If so, than I am not sure how they should have dealt with it.

jwkessler
If they really were stopped between stations, yes, exiting the car to the tracks would be more dangerous than staying in the car with a murderer. First, without a platform to walk to there is a rather high jump to the ground. Then there are other trains in the tunnel. It can be dark down there. Finally, remember that electrified third rail!

I'm not sure what prevented anyone from moving to another car however. I've seen people doing that on moving trains so it should have been easy on a stopped train.

harlinredlands
One Murderer versus 30 passengers?

What a bunch of cowering wimps. A real group of humans would have attacked the murderer in a mob.

JakeW83
Pigs are cowards. They are never willing to put themselves in any real danger. That's why they go straight to the tazer...

Richard Kurdt
It sounds like the NYPD just weren't sure what was going on. They wouldn't have done that deliberately, locking people inside like that. There must have been alot of chaos and confusion.

Mike Moore
I will say, however, that stopping the train before reaching the station may easily have prevented the victim from receiving emergency medical treatment that may have saved his life. Thinking clearly in the face of fear is certainly a rare commodity.

Mike Moore
Not endangering the lives of innocent bystanders takes priority over apprehending a suspect. When I was young, this would have been considered obvious. Now in the Police State, many people seem willing to accept the New Morality without question

Hologram5
What I don't understand is where is the rage? With all the crap going on, the bankers taking over, the billions of dollars missing and the taxpayers picking up the tab. Where is the rage?

Mike Moore
My guess is that there is no longer a safe outlet for this type of anger, so people sublimate the anger into a sense of despair and hopelessness. I think prior to the Police State Era, people would have given hell to whatever cop they came across when something like this happened. Just the desire to avoid this kind of reaction would have kept a lot of cops from making foolish and/or cowardly choices.

In the current Police State, people know that to even express such legitimate outrage to a cop on the street will likely result in your being 1) tasered, 2) hand-cuffed with a knee on your neck, 3) peppar sprayed, 4) arrested, and 5) charged with assaulting a police officer. In that order.

With the officers no longer subject to being ostracized when their fellow officers cross the line, they become amoral thugs.

In a free society, the police exist to protect the citizens from criminals. In a Police State, the police exist to protect the criminals from the citizens.

Hologram5
One thing though, when the rage finally does kick in, it is going to get REAL UGLY. With even the contained rage I have, I constantly feel it. At least I am aware of it and have learned to deal with it. I have my classes in psychology to thank for that. What about those out there that don't know how to deal? Like I said, it'll get real ugly.

Laminator
The best way for authorities to regain control of a situation like this is to keep the murder suspect (remember, unless the authorities saw him do it, he's only a suspect to them) under control until the police arrive. Letting the passengers flee would satisfy their natural and very understandable "flight" response. However, that would let the suspect run amok as well (perhaps even escaping entirely) and delay the reassertion of situational control for the authorities. This is a really unfortunate situation where frustrating the passengers seems the only way to keep control over the suspect.

cpa
A few years ago I was on the same train in the afternoon and it was full and and two teenagers started a fight a one pulled out a knife and everyone started to panic and someone pulled the emergency brake and the train stopped between stations before 125th. Then everyone started to panic tried to exit the car but the doors were locked, it was almost a stampede. A pregnant woman was sitting close to the door and started screaming and crying. Although I couldn't see at this point because there where about 30 all around me, I could hear the teens arguing and threatening eachother but not fighting, a few people where trying to calm them down. About 10 minutes go by of pure hysteria when a MTA worker came and opened one of the doors and scolded whoever pulled the ebrake. He then closed the door ! Someone was pounding on the door to let them out and he came back and said, we'll be at the station in a few minutes and to let the two guys "just kill each other", he then let about 5 people into the other car including the pregnant woman and sealed the rest of us in. It was the most insane thing. I can't imagine what it would have been like if someone was actually killed on the train, it was completely horrifying. I know the MTA argument is to prevent the guys from escaping, but he handled in such a casual way I was dumbfounded.

NYPD tell conductor to seal passengers in with murderer

Follow us!

Most Viewed



Get Raw Story updates! Email: