Mr. Obama, VETO this bad bad bill!! This bill is not what you ran on and will not help in the least and will kill the democratic party if enacted in any way that resembles this bad bad bill. SINGLE-PAYER!! The ONLY solution!!

Geeez with a Bill like this ...why even bother to pretend its actually helping ANYBODY??? Mr Obama - IF this Bill passes as is....the Dems have screwed themselves out of another Election.

Outlaw ALL corporate lobbying. Why does a company have more say than an individual? It should be a CRIME for corporations to pay and bribe politicians with money, favors, and perks.

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Because the courts have decided that "money is free speech", meaning if you have money, you speak.. more money is louder speech, so the rich are the only ones that can be heard.

Clearly, that is akin to the Feudal system where the land owners and Kings are the only one's who mattered, and the courts in America have put us back to the dark ages in terms of "equal access" to our representatives, set us back from a Republic to a Feudal system.

And now they are going to use their own flawed premise as a base for their next flawed postulation, which will be that limiting the amount of money "someone" (in this case, corporations) can give to a representative is restricting their freedom of speech since money = free speech.

things are going to get much worse before they get better (if they can ever get better), and only the public .. ALL of the public .. marching on Washington will stop it. But the masses will cower from authority like good little sheep, and America will finally be officially laid to rest (as in dead and gone).

Lobbying has become synonymous with corruption and vote-buying, but that is not necessarily the case in every instance. Lobbyists SHOULD function as advocates and sources of information for legislators making decisions. Corporations should have equal access to present their cases, but you are 100% correct that the money needs to be removed from the equation. The meetings should take place in a Representatives' offices (DC or Home State) and not at a golf course, a fancy restaurant, or a private island, etc...

Good idea to outlaw ALL corporate lobbying.
But since the snakes who make our laws are all bought and paid for by those same corporations............catch 22.

The solution does not lay with the criminals who infest both the Senate and Congress, in full control of both Dems and Repugs.
It is with we the people.
Not enough of us are aware of how deep this problem goes, and once enough of us wake up it is going to be one hell of a revolution to get our country back.

Gandhi and MLK gave us the blueprint.
Once about 60% of our population know what 10% now know, we can take back our country. For the time being we are squabbling amongst ourselves over false D and R affiliations and loyalties which are meaningless. This fight allows the criminals to control us.

well said!

What is the definition of lobbying?
I have gone to congress and to meet with Capuano and Kerry, my reps. That visit would be called 'lobbying' because it was an attempt to influence policy. When normal people go to congress it is lobbying just like when the rich lawyers go.

The Real Solution is to reduce the power of the federal government. Why would anyone lobby congress if congress doesn't have the authority to bailout a company?

In capitalism, there are no bailouts, there is only bankruptcy or success. Our Corporatist (soon to be fascist system) needs to be dismantled to give freedom some room.

Some might say 'but if congress doesn't have the authority to bailout who does?' Which brings us to the question. Do you want government to ever have the authority to take your money and give it to rich people?

In other words nobody should have that authority to steal (tax) money from middle class people and give it to rich people. Shuffling money around doesn't benefit anyone except the well connected rich.

Here is a great example, The government restricts the number of beds at hospitals being built. A hospital might want 1000 beds and the government could come by and say 'no you only get 750 beds' and voila the government causes higher costs by A. restricting the capacity to give care (supply) B burdening hospitals with extra regulation (fill out form 23-b to apply for the right to have hospital beds, get that nototrized, send it into the board for review, then a public comment period, then...) instead of just staying out of the hospitals way and allowing them to build as many beds as they want

Few people realize that the government is largely responsible for the run away costs of Healthcare, school and housing (all things that are subsidized heavily). When the government subsidizes 'affordable loans' what really happens is a short circuiting of the market process which reduces cost, because the government is keeping costs lower than they should be by 'keeping interest rates low' on those products.

Then when the system collapses from imbalances, the government declares it an emergency, moves in to total regulation mode and creates inefficiency. because lets face it, the people in government don't have a clue. Then after that causes costs to go up, they subsidize it.

Another example of how clueless our government is: corn syrup.
The government subsidizes corn syrup production (at tax payer expense) and now they want to 'regulate' soda which is unhealthy because it contains ... high fructose corn syrup. This shows the best answer is to NOT subsidize corn which will lead to higher soda prices and reduced taxes.

Can anyone give a good reason why we SHOULD subsidize Soda? Does it make sense to subsidize something then tax it to stop people from having it? Wouldn't it make more sense to neither subsidize, nor tax it?
just leave it be and let people live their lives.

Republicans are doing everything hey can to undermine and corrupt this bill, and the Democrats are letting them. We no longer have a two party system, but a corrupt system that does not hold the best interest of the people at heart. At this point, I would like to see this bill scuttled.

The freakin' leadership of the Democrats in Congress is so pathetically in the pocket of Big Insurance . . . and this health care debacle will probably delay MEANINGFUL reform for decades.

moore is right. this bill is a another giveaway to the lobbyists. if the congress was really serious, they could do it in a three page bill, moving the eligibility age of medicare to 0. cover everyone, everyone puts money in the pile, and no one is excluded. stop letting the death insurance mafia, their exemption to anti trust. but the senate is in the pockets of big pharma, the chamber of commerce, and others who have no interest in helping people, but just raking bucks. just like the mafia.

Actually, the mafia tends to look after their friends and neighbors better than our congress does. Hell, there's even something called loyalty in the mafia.

I have suspected exactly this. The Congress is in the pocket of Insurance Companies. Insurance Companies contribute to essentially every campaign across the board. How would the Congress ever acted again the corporate interest - they won't.

Now we foot the bill. Insurance is mandatory and you will face stiff fines (which will only fatten the coffers of the government - not get you insured).

Give us real reform - true universal healthcare.

By the way if this passes as is maybe it would be a good idea to REFUSE to buy private insurance, REFUSE to play their game.

I'll be damed if I EVER voluntarily buy ANYTHING from an insurance company again! It's organized crime.

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I've thought about exactly this, and am trying to decide if that's exactly what I'll do when this thing comes to pass.

The problem is that majority of people target by this bill (ie, those coerced into buying into the insurance scam) are among the most disenfranchised in the country. It's not educated upper middle-class Americans with reasonable income and free-time and conviction to make a point by standing up to "the Man." It's the little guys, whose choice will be to either shoulder this burden quietly, or be intimidated by the system.

And, of course, if they don't stand up while I do, I go to jail. Unless a LOT of these little guys get organized and do the "standing up to the man" that needs to be done, they're stuck with it. Along with the rest of us.
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Do you own a home...
Do you own a car...

Do you rent...
Do you lease...

I hope you have insurance because...
... The Federal government MANDATES that car owners/leasere have insurance. I'de hate to be hit by you. And you would hate the court costs and fines.

I hope you have insurance because...
... If your house fire damages my property then YOU loose. And renters insurance will assist in recovering YOU losses and your neighbors' who you share a wall with.

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I don't own property, but I do have a car and happily pay insurance. I do so precisely because the insurance is there to protect others from my screw-ups - and to protect me from their's. That's an example of the way insurance is supposed to work: people can be compensated when injured by others, or by nature.

But note: I can choose not to own a car. In that case, I don't pay insurance.

However, I can't choose not to "have health", any more than I can't choose not to breathe oxygen. Yet I'll be asked to shell out for health insurance? There is no way I can get out of it, short of killing myself.

You'll retort about my becoming a burden on society. True. Which is exactly why I have no problem with universal healthcare. It is an issue that affects everyone, and so should be supported by everyone. But doing so through private insurers is inefficient and expensive (not to mention highly immoral, as it pits profit dollars against human life). Therefore, I support a system in which everyone pays - tax - and everyone benefits, with a minimum of fuss. Just like roads, social security, or public education.

I do NOT want to support corporate profits with my life.
I do NOT want to waste time and frustration choosing a plan.
I do NOT want to worry about networks, recission, premiums and deductibles, and all the other complicating factors.
I DO want to just go talk to a doctor when I need to, or get patched up if I fall off the roof without going bankrupt. Hell, I'll even happily pay a little co-pay to offset things a bit.

For the love of God, that's all I need.
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Those things that you mention are choices. Homes and cars. You can always choose to not have those things (and they are STATE requirements, not federal). If you are alive then you will be required to have Health Insurance. Big difference. Plus, to my admittedly limited knowledge, the home and auto insurance is not run by the government.

All this wailing against the Democrats. Sure I agree that the Dems are spineless, lily-livered, yellow-bellies that change their pre-election tune at the first hint of resistance from the Republican pitbulls, but I place by far the largest blame for the failure of the wreakage that the healthcare bill has become squarely at the feet of the Republicans and their lying, conniving, deceitful, greedy, hateful insurance company buddies. These pigs have pulled out all the stops in their crusade to make sure that the vast majority of Americans SUFFER.

Problem is that the more the Dems cower in the corner the bolder it makes the repuglican pigs. So the problem just gets worse.

If the Dems would take off their blinders and grow a spine they'd immediately scrap this worthless junk heap of compromise and insurance industry welfare and start over again. Only this time do it right! And if the Repuglican pigs don't like it f--k them! Ram it through for the good of the people and the country as a whole.

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You're missing the part where they call the right-wing infiltrators of the Democratic party "conservative democrats".. no such thing, right? When Ds are right-of-center then there is no blaming the other "party" since party no longer matters.

Step back from party and go back to the basics.. left-wing and right-wing. We have a lot of right-wingers wearing a D these days.. THAT is what trashed the bill.. a "need" for party to pass laws, but nothing stopping opposing ideologues from being in either party. .. keep voting party ticket and watch it get nothing but worse. keep believing the lie.
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