Wait a minute; wait just a gosh-darn minute:

A judge's job is to decide not what is legal, but what's a fit subject for intelligence gathering? When did the U.S. legal system turn into the Spanish Inquisition?

"National security" is now a euphemism for "America's crime was so bad that we HAVE to keep it a secret in order to preserve what little is left of our reputation as a decent nation".

THAT is what "national security" means, post-Bush-Cheney.

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Shorter interpretation:

Must not let people see rape, murder, torture, mutilation done at the hands of their Government. They may revolt.

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This means Hellerstein has some really nasty dirt on him. Some really perverse habit perhaps?
Or maybe He's a Scull & Bones... Perhaps all of the above. Either way he's become part of the cover up to crimes. People have dissapeared even murdered. Hey RAW dig us some dirt on on this judge.

The CIA can do anything they want. The "commons" of the people can be "erased", hidden, stolen, etc. by a few. I wonder what "they" could really get away with?

Dear Citizens,

We here at the CIA feel that there are issues too big and coverups too massive to talk about. The population of our Great United States is too fragile to know what we know. We are only protecting you from yourselves. We shouldn't have to explain ourselves in this War on Terror. There are bad guys out there that wish to do you harm RIGHT NOW! We need to use every measure to ensure you don't get hurt, even if that means covering stuff up. Please help us keep America strong by protecting the CIA. We only do our jobs because we care. You do not need to see what is on video tape, there are scary things on there, and we would not want you to get angry at u......uhhhh the bad guys.

Thank you for your cooperation America. Now watch this drive!

Thank you so much for protecting my little son Timmy, sleeping there in his Special Forces pajamas holding his pet kitten Green Beret, from the many Evildoers in the world who Hate Our Freedoms.

Just tell me where to line up and salute.

Then I will get back to my job as TV anchor informing Americans on important world news.

This judge and a few others are ones they go to that are "friendly" to the govt. and CIA. They must have a ton of stuff on this guy for him to say what he said in regard to blocking access to data about THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TAPES!!!!!! It's the job of the judiciary to decide if said arguments are legal or illegal or the law is valid or invalid in said case. He says that intelligence takes presidence over judicial oversight or rule of law. How would he know what is good intelligence and what is bad. He in essence is taking the word of one side that they have to protect these individuals because of the safety of the country. The problem is that what if they are lying? And if they are lying, there's no way to tell because nobody is providing oversight on them except the same individuals that are part of the problem.

For the CIA to destroy these tapes (I believe many aren't destroyed, to be used against operatives in case they don't tow the line they will be outed as torturers and the CIA will make them the rouge agent or agents torturing without consent), they must have been very very bad. I'm not talking about just yelling and even waterboarding. I'm talking about torture we only hear about from despot govt. (which we have turned into). Yea judge, trust us that any information about the destruction of the tapes will effect the ability of the CIA to protect the country. Isn't for the judge to decide and to see the information (10,000 dollars says that the judge didn't even see the information they want protected because it was national security, they said trust us).

Americans are in the process of a mission creep to fascism, and they will only wake up when they are firmly in place behind the "security camps" that are being built all over this country. They have dumbed down the populace and made us believe a talking snake is more believeable than a dirty cop or a dirty govt. official. Make us ignorant, infantile and only to respect violence, and you have a society that will only have 2 and a half classes. The upper class, the lower class, and the govt./police official class that will be used to keep the lower class in check. We did this to ourselves, we have nobody else to blame but ourselves.

torture would make ME tell you that i piloted a missle into the pentagon...did i say missle?...i meant plane...a DC-10 was it?...and the engines scraped the ground just before we hit...didn`t they?...uh oh...

Thats justice in America...

We've all known for years the CIA needed to be dismantled and those who have been covering up their crimes needed to be retired, rhetorically speaking. In fact, under Clinton the talk came from both sides of the aisle and the media was not yet covering up their fantasies. Cheney is one guy who ought to be arrested on the grounds of national security. In fact, the entire previous administration is likely to get the same if they ever do anything close to a fair inquiry. That it is taking so long, is testament to the one party nation we live in and how futile it is to believe Obama will do anything but harmonize what his predecessor determined: follow the Pentagon's orders.

To Spencer Ackerman's concise analysis of the frustratingly redacted, non-smoking gun documentary "proof" that torture has worked to keep America safe since 9/11, there is an additional point to be made.

These recently declassified CIA documents were claimed in several public speeches by Dick Cheney to be evidence that the Bushies' enhanced interrogation techniques had disrupted "over a dozen" specific post-9/11 terrorist attacks, and therefore saved "thousands" of innocent American lives. Read them in PDF format. There is not a single passage in these self-serving documents that even comes close to supporting this critical, particularly grandiose claim of former vice president Cheney.

And, of course, the idea that torture saves innocent lives (the Jack Bauer/Dirty Harry "ticking time bomb" fairy tale scenario) is the core of the neocon torture apologists set up. Drum roll, please. Drop the second shoe. By naively abandoning the torture techniques that successfully kept America safe from the evil doers, Barack Obama becomes morally responsible for the next successful terrorist attack on US soil. That's a given. The blood of these next innocents will be entirely upon the Democrats' hands. Don't say you weren't warned, Main Street America. We can hardly wait to wipe our tears, solemnly give the eulogy, and shriek I told you so.
Dick Cheney has been goading the Obama administration for months to release these super secret, deeply classified CIA reports that would supposedly corroborate the efficacy of the Bush/Cheney interrogation approach once and for all.

Mr. Ackerman is right. If this is the best proof our best spooks could conjure up, then it was a smoke and mirrors PR stunt all along.

Considering the governing concept of Dick Cheney was to come up with a policy no matter how unprincipled or hair-brained, then come up with "evidence" to support it later; is it really no surprise that the recently released CIA documents provide him no cover? Also, it would not be a surprise if agency bureaucrats, whose employer has come out of this substantially damaged following Cheney's orders, would seek to screw him back now he is on a mission to "protect his legacy."

How will our so called government ever remove this stigmata of torture in violation of national and international laws and treaties? Who can ever respect America after this.

It's pretty bad when we now have judges that no longer consider it to be their job to render judgment on whether or not something is legal. No, now, according to this judge, "it was only important that he decide whether the issue before him was a fit subject for intelligence gathering, not whether it was legal," and that he thinks his “job is to defer...to the decision of the director of the CIA."

So, it sounds like this judge does not work for the Justice Dept., the people or for upholding the rule of law; no, apparently, he works for the CIA, and his job is to defer to the decision of the director of the CIA whether something is a "fit subject for intelligence gathering," regardless of whether laws were broken. I wonder how much this judge was paid to render this pathetic "ruling."

Our entire system is broken. Remember when we were told as kids that crime doesn't pay? Well, apparently even that is a lie because everywhere you look in our govt and our society today, it would seem that crime has paid very well and elevated quite a few people to wealth and positions of power as a reward for their dirty deeds. But god help you if you're honorable, honest and truthful--for that you will be punished.

The real question is what leverage does the CIA have over Alvin K. Hellerstein?

They probably have pictures of him with another man, or a little boy.

Does this really surprise anyone? Certainly not me. I am not surprised by ANYTHING the Fed Gov't does anymore. What is the saying? I used to be annoyed, now I'm amused. This whole fiasco has been just disgusting.

How does a judge decide a case on whether it is fit for intelligence gathering and skip whether it is legal? More coverup. Can we ever expect more?

Hellerstein... Hellerstein..... isn't that Jewish? Is he from Israel?

Seems odd we have so many Judges making 180 degree opposite decisions in America. Some say "you have to show how this is a threat to National Security because you're accused of crimes" and others, like Hellerstein seem to say "meh, you claim National Security.. OK.. who are we to JUDGE?"..

The core of our nation has been completely infiltrated and compromised by agents not working for the public; clearly.
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Apparently, Hellerstein has some pretty strong family ties to Israel. He's also the "9/11 judge." And since at least some of the defendants in the lawsuit brought by several 9/11 family members of the victims were Israeli-owned or controlled companies, some believe that he has had a conflict of interest in presiding over these cases. Because of this judge's influence and insistence, many plaintiffs settled and thereby forfeited their right to trial, but not all have. And it seems that Hellerstein has done everything within his power to drag the remaining plaintiffs' cases on for years.

Also, his son has lived in one of the illegal Israeli settlements since 2001, and both he and his son are devout talmudic jews, which, as near as I can tell, means they favor all things jewish and hate all things gentile. They're the chosen ones, you know; the rest of us are nothing. I don't trust anyone that adheres to the Talmud because apparently in their view, it gives them license to do anything they want, illegal or not, to the rest of us--the "gentiles"--simply because they claim to be god's chosen ones--e.g. gentiles are outside the protection of the law and god has “exposed their money to Israel.” – Baba Kamma 37b--how convenient for them, huh? They can pretty much justify doing anything to the rest of us with that kind of religious belief.
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I completely agree with you that our nation has been thoroughly infiltrated and compromised by agents working in the interests of others over the interests of the American people. Just look at the neocons--most are dual Israeli-American citizens. Hell, the former secretary of the DHS--Michael Chertof's mother was supposedly a mossad agent, and I think he may have served in the IMF!

So, one thing I wonder, is if some of these "interrogators" that tortured the detainees that Panetta and others are so concerned about having publicly revealed were in reality Israeli mossad agents--and that's what they're covering up.

That's what I've said all along, that the interrogators are Israeli. That's why they don't want us to see. Also the child rape. We can't see that either.

He said it was only important that he decide whether the issue before him was a fit subject for intelligence gathering, not whether it was legal.
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The judge, though, said that the CIA has to obey laws, and he cautioned: "We have to square what we do in the gathering of intelligence with who we are as a people."
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So, the JUDGE doesn't decide if the CIA was breaking the Law, that's left to...
hey, there IS nobody else deciding if the CIA is breaking the Law.

Huh.

Who would ever have thought that Mama's Boy Alvin K. Hellerstein would one day be required to have balls. And be found lacking.

But hey, Mama's still proud of your LSAT score, and passing the Bar on your fifth attempt, and those nice robes they let you wear... We're so PROUD of you, Alvin.