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Major Nidal Hasan has been charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder in the Fort Hood shootings and will be tried in a military court. The Army apparently sees no reason to treat the case as one of terrorism or turn it over to federal prosecutors, and the FBI has released a statement saying it has no information that "Hasan had any co-conspirators or was part of a broader terrorist plot."
However, this has not stopped Sen. John McCain, Sen. Joe Lieberman, Oliver North, and any number of Fox News commentators from demanding that the shootings be regarded as an act of Muslim terrorism.
MSNBC's Rachel Maddow sees these assertions as stemming from an eagerness to charge President Obama with allowing "a terrorist attack on his watch," even if it means ignoring the legal definition of terrorism. She turned to constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley to explain the legal issues involved.
"I think that the Army is going about this in the right way," Turley began. "Criminal investigators and lawyers and judges don't have the luxury that some people have on television to just simply say this must be terrorism."
"You can't just simply say that because somebody kills a large number of people that it's terrorism," Turley explained. "There are plenty of people who act out of rage. ... Some of them are perfectly unhinged and they will latch onto religious views or political views, but what they're really acting out of is mental illness."
"Terrorism is more than just killing people," Turley emphasized. "We're becoming a nation where we want to define everything as terrorism. ... We have a shooting of an abortion doctor, it's terrorism. ... A hate crime is terrorism. Well, it's not. It's murder."
Turley has maintained this position consistently in the past, even when it was liberals insisting that a crime be described as terrorism. He wrote last summer, with reference to the killers of George Tiller and a guard at the Holocaust museum in Washington, "There is an important legal difference between people who seek to terrorize a society through coordinated acts of killing and people who act on impulse to kill people they hate. ... Calling something a terrorism case puts it in a different category for investigation and prosecution. Special laws and punishments apply."
"Terrorism is when you not just murder someone but you're murdering someone to coerce or intimidate a government or society," Turley told Maddow . "There's no indication that [Hasan] went into this location for that purpose. ... Most indications are that he's a deeply disturbed individual who released his hate on these people."
"Is it possible for an insane person to commit an act of terrorism?" Maddow asked.
"Anyone who's a terrorist is by definition somewhat insane," Turley replied. "You really do have to have a screw loose."
This video is from MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, broadcast Nov. 12, 2009.
Download video via RawReplay.com
“Terrorism is when you not just murder someone but you're murdering someone to coerce or intimidate a government or society,” Turley told Maddow .
“Terrorism is when you not just do affirmative action but you're affirmative actioning someone to coerce or intimidate a government or society,” Turley should have told Maddow .
“Terrorism is when you not just call people bigots but you're calling people bigot to coerce or intimidate a government or society,” Turley should have confessed to Maddow .
wow logic from corporate news, interesting.
does no one find it funny how the criminals of government usually end up on fox news as commentators or people who give opinions?
Karl Rove and Oliver North are just but a few of many.
How Fox News can have treasonous traitors on as news commentators is stunning.
I suspect you guys will not enjoy this!
http://hillbuzz.org/2009/11/10/thank-you-former...
YES YES YES he was no terrorist, he was a disgruntled united states citizen!
“Terrorism is when you not just murder someone but you're murdering someone to coerce or intimidate a government or society,” Turley told Maddow
That means that hate crimes are terrorism. That means that killing abortion doctors are terrorism. The only reason why they're not considered terrorism by the conservative press is that conservatives are far more likely to commit those acts.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Indigo and LoveU, Paolo Fiora. Paolo Fiora said: Turley: Fort Hood shooter is a murderer, not a terrorist: Major Nidal Hasan has been charged with 13 count… http://bit.ly/3zhofL #altnews [...]
Fox News only supports Republican criminals as the mouthpiece of the Republican Party. Maybe someone should check and see if Fox News fits the description of a terrorist organization.
Kinda vague there OA. The interstate Highway System changed society in an affirmative way & some land owners had to be coerced to surrender land to change society. Was that terrorism. It was definitely affirmative action by the Federal Government.
Also how does calling an individual a bigot degrade an entire Government?
I am not disagreeing with you OA I am requesting an expansion.
By affirmative action I mean hiring non-whites or over whites or admission over whites or not penalizing non-whites for bad behavior. Steve Sailer at Vdare links to info that Hasan was a poor student who would not have been in medical school except for affirmative action. Hope this helps.
I'm sure the terms don't matter much to the people who got shot.
All media that play along with this sham by focusing exclusively on the Muslim/terrorist angle are to be condemned.
Even by taking the side of the coin that he 'was not a terrorist' still stays on topic…….the only topic permitted. Muslim kills Americans.
The much more relevant and inconvenient (for war mongers) issues here are the fact that this guy was freaked out and depressed about his deployment to the Bush war zone now being managed and lied about by Obama.
This guy was also westernized in that he was OK with strippers and booze…….not exactly fundamentalist stuff.
This guy was a shrink and possibly on SSRI meds.
But the only thing dirty filthy greasy pro war media discusses is the Muslim angle. Focusing exclusively on either side of that angle is yellow journalism.
Think!
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You show exactly why “intellectual elites” should be running things, not moron bigots like yourself.
calling names is terrorism now? .. wow. whine-ass crybaby much?
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“Terrorism is when you not just murder someone but you're murdering someone to coerce or intimidate a government or society,”
So, the guy that killed Dr. Tiller, in stating that “if it makes other doctors not provide abortions [because they fear being targeted and killed], then I've done good” doesn't show he's trying to sway policy or actions through killing someone?
See, killing Tiller was done with INTENT to prevent people from engaging in legal activity because the KILLER had IDEOLOGICAL differences.. terrorism.. The idiot at the Hollocaust museum (without knowing more details) seems a murder, NOT terrorism..
and the killing at Ft. Hood, failing any EVIDENCE to suggest he had INTENT to SWAY POLICY, was murder, not terrorism.. …. not that I expect the trolls here to understand that INTENT is key to deciding if something is terrorism, and it has nothing to do with your religious proclivities.
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hate crimes already have their own special category beyond just crimes. When people engage in hate crimes, they aren't really trying to “change policy” so much as they are singling out victims and committing the crime they would not otherwise engage in.
Given the ideological basis behind killing abortion doctors, and statements made by the murders after, I'd tend to say they are terrorists looking to change policy or prevent future actions out of fear.
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yes.. deflect when it's shown the vitriol is all political maneuvering.
And it matters to every other person that _didn't_ get shot because it determines how we proceed with modifying various policies to try and prevent such things in the future.
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What's to enjoy? The guy that CAUSED all these problems goes to comfort some military victims of the fallout? So? Was it a “nice gesture”? sure.. does it undo all the death and destruction he's done to our country and other nations, all because he FAILED to do his job BEFORE we were attacked?
are you fucking kidding me?
and for someone to pretend to know what Obama or Gore or any other Democrat would have done on Sept. 11, 2001 is pretty pathetic.. seeing as how WHEN we were attacked, the shrub planted himself in a chair in a grade school dazed and dumbfounded for over 5 minutes…
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Sorry, no deflection here.
Got it OA Thanks. I took affirmative action to change society in a broader sense. I see your point.
This is off topic but I am still suspicious of the Armies account of what happened. The 'who took the SOB down' part changed & the 'shooter is alive then dead' accounts. Also the times he may or may not have served in combat with a story of suffering from PTSS
maybe / maybe not reports.
It 's tough to dope out just what the heck really occured other than the obvious.
Thanks again.
There were two other shooters according to Texas gov and they were seen being sped away in a car after the shootings, so what nonsense Rachel and Turley are saying!!!!!!!
30,000 children die each and every day from complications due to starvation.
If I was a prosecutor I'd make if very simple. This is the crime before you. I wouldn't start labeling it as more than what it is. If you start adding ideological thinking into the mix it becomes muddled.
I understand what your saying, but I disagree about how people who commit hate crimes aren't trying to “change policy”. If you kill a man because he's gay, you're sending a message to the gay society to illicit a fearful reaction. The message that openly gay people should be killed. The goal being to drive gays out of the general society. That's a policy change. I don't know if the people who commit hate crimes are conscious of what they're really doing, but I say that doesn't matter.
Hate crimes are meant to intimidate and stimulate fear in the group the criminals are trying to terrorize. That's why I call it terrorism. I would like to do away with hate crimes and instead treat them like terrorism. Hopefully, after being a conservative buzz word for so many years, it may make some of these conservatives think twice.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
According to the Texas Gov, who was not at the scene and also hindered investigations of death row inmates who were executed and then later proven innocent.
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Clarification: On at least on occasion, our overly-coiffed, secessionist governor executed a man who was known to be innocent before he was killed. That's justice – Texas style!
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“Terrorism is when you not just do affirmative action but you're affirmative actioning on a systematic basis to coerce or intimidate or change a government or society,” Turley should have told Maddow .
What about a suicide bomber? you can only do it once, you know….
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Clarification: On at least on occasion, our overly-coiffed, secessionist governor executed a man who was known to be innocent before he was killed. That's justice – Texas style!
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“Terrorism is when you not just do affirmative action but you're affirmative actioning on a systematic basis to coerce or intimidate or change a government or society,” Turley should have told Maddow .
What about a suicide bomber? you can only do it once, you know….