Skeptics claim stolen emails prove global warming a hoax

By Muriel Kane
Friday, November 20th, 2009 -- 8:56 pm
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greenlandicemeltwarming Skeptics claim stolen emails prove global warming a hoaxAlthough arguments continue as to how much of recent climate change is natural and how much is man-made, only a few diehard skeptics doubt that the warming of the last few decades is real. Now, however, those skeptics can barely contain their glee at the release of a cache of stolen emails that they believe prove global warming is nothing but a colossal hoax.

"If you own any shares in alternative energy companies I should start dumping them NOW," one of these skeptics blogged on Friday. "The conspiracy behind the Anthropogenic Global Warming myth (aka AGW; aka ManBearPig) has been suddenly, brutally and quite deliciously exposed after a hacker broke into the computers at the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit (aka Hadley CRU) and released 61 megabites of confidential files onto the internet. ... This scandal could well be 'the greatest in modern science'."

According to a more sober account of the theft offered by the Guardian, the stolen files "were first uploaded on to a Russian server, before being widely mirrored across the internet. The emails were accompanied by the anonymous statement: 'We feel that climate science is, in the current situation, too important to be kept under wraps. We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code and documents. Hopefully it will give some insight into the science and the people behind it.'"

The University of East Anglia has confirmed that files were stolen from its server but has not verified the genuineness of the allegedly random selection of material that has been released. The scientists involved have also refused to comment on the record, although they insist privately that "the e-mails are being taken out of context and ... are part of the normal hurly-burly of conversations between scientists working on some of the most complicated questions of our times."

Those gloating over the emails have seized in particular on expressions of hostility towards climate change skeptics and dismissals of their papers as not representing legitimate science to elaborate theories of a conspiracy to suppress debate. They are also pointing to certain brief quotations that might be taken as boasts of manipulating data or as private acknowledgments of a lack of data to support the conclusion of global warming.

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One email from 1999, for example, says "I've just completed Mike's Nature [the science journal] trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie, from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline." Another complains, "The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate."

In the face of current warnings of "catastrophic fire danger" as New South Wales, Australia experiences its "hottest November on record," as well as stories about "the heaviest rainfall ever recorded in Britain," attempts to use a few out-of-context quotes to paint climate change as a colossal fraud may meet with some degree of skepticism themselves.

Scientists are also weighing in on the controversy. Brian Angliss at Scholars & Rogues, for example, finds the claims of fraud "highly unlikely."

"I work in electrical engineering where I use words and phrases that, taken out of context, could be misinterpreted as nefarious by people who are ignorant of the context or who have an axe to grind," he explains. "For example, I regularly talk about 'fiddling with' or 'twiddling' the data, 'faking out' something, 'messing around with' testing, and so on. ... No matter how much the deniers scream, these emails aren’t likely to reveal any evidence of scientific malfeasance. And even if they do, there’s an entire globe of researchers whose independent research has bolstered the case that climate disruption is real and that it’s predominantly caused by human civilization."

The blog at RealClimate.org has also had a look at the emails and points out, "More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords."

But meanwhile, figures on the right are having a field day. The blogger quoted above, James Delingpole, is particularly scathing, claiming that "In the run up to Copenhagen, we will see more and more hysterical (and grotesquely exaggerated) stories such as this in the Mainstream Media. And we will see ever-more-virulent campaigns conducted by eco-fascist activists. ... The world is currently cooling; electorates are increasingly reluctant to support eco-policies leading to more oppressive regulation, higher taxes and higher utility bills; the tide is turning against Al Gore’s Anthropogenic Global Warming theory."

Perhaps the final word on the matter has already been offered by a spokesperson for Greenpeace, who told the Guardian, "If you looked through any organisation's emails from the last 10 years you'd find something that would raise a few eyebrows. Contrary to what the sceptics claim, the Royal Society, the US National Academy of Sciences, Nasa and the world's leading atmospheric scientists are not the agents of a clandestine global movement against the truth. This stuff might drive some web traffic, but so does David Icke."

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Story comments are below...

  • squeekbat
    wtf is this doing featured again? Is it just me or does raw story frequently repost old news? ...why? I am baffled.
  • fredcahall
    Is there anyone or any group in the world that has enough trust and influence, and is in a position to be heard, that can gather those from both sides of this issue together and settle the question of global warming? Or is this just another issue that maintains it's momentum and vibrancy by remaing at the forefront of political discussion? Once again, the public is whipsawed in the storm of media and ploitical hysteria. It is very sad when it continues to be evident that truth and ratioonality are too hard to sell.
  • tilltheend
    The road to global government is a bumpy one , however it is profitable for many and will continue until we are all under full control, this is but one tool in thier arsenal.( Get off the grid and insist on freedom from all their tyrany now)( independance will buy us some time)
  • Loonie
    Skepticism, denial... man, I'm always gettin' those two mixed up, too.
  • steveginil
    For anyone wanting to read some of the emails and commentary on them by scientists who are not in the AGW camp, go to http://www.climateaudit.org/
  • steveginil
    What do you expect RealClimate to say? Quoting them without noting that they are one of the major pushers of AGW is poor journalism and giving the impression of an objective analysis by one of the most biased sources for AGW. I agree that some of the anti-AGW folks are over the top, but the article needs to give the reader a clear understanding of who is on what side of the divide, and who is abjective.
  • vivianwarkentin
    Yeah global climate change is happening, but the NASA scientists and US military are causing it with their weather modification and atmospheric heating experiments. Check out the sky and you will see that they are already doing geoengineering.
  • dsang1
    here's the deal... we have been warming since the last ice age!!! the warming wasn't a "man-made" event. i think it is ridiculous that our government expects us to pay to stop something that we didn't start. Temps are actually going down and who knows really at some point we may be facing another ice age?? I think we are going off "half cocked" so that Al Gore and progressive liberals can put the American people in bondage!
  • dsang1
    here's the deal... we have been warming since the last ice age!!! the warming wasn't a "man-made" event. i think it is ridiculous that our government expects us to pay to stop something that we didn't start. Temps are actually going down and who knows really at some point we may be facing another ice age?? I think we are going off "half cocked" so that Al Gore and progressive liberals can put the American people in bondage!
  • pakaal
    Well, this is awesome! If I was running that research group I'd invite Delingpole and whoever else wants to explain how this proves human-induced climate change isn't real, to come and have a debate with the scientists on the subject. I'd love to see the deniers debate these scientists, and see the deniers get their pimply butts soundly kicked in public.
  • dankyogurt
    No one supports climate change policy as much as oil companies, this whole us vs big oil theory is a complete sham. Absolutely fossil fuel technology is being rammed down our throat, and better cleaner energy sources are being suppressed, but by the same people that are trying to use the environment to tax us through the massive scam of carbon offsets. There are many vital and courageous environmental issues and movements, but this one has been hijacked by the oligarchy and has lost all relation to science or logic. Some of you alarmist freaks actually have to do some research into the upcoming legislation of cap and trape, or carbon offsets. Let the fat people pay all the skinny underdeveloped people to get fatter, great plan.
  • Eve
    40's means 1940's so not all that long ago. That was in the warming period of the 20's, 30's and 40's which was followed by the cooling period of the 50's, 60's and 70's. Since it was warmer in the 30's and 40's than now, the Arctic ice melt was more but it all refroze to give the high in 1978 you refered to. Then it warmed for 18 years and now we are in the next cooling cycle. Before the warming in the 20's etc there was a cool spell which followed the warming spell of the late 1800's culminating in another Arctic ice low in 1900 and the opening of the NW passage then. I hope you understand, the planet warms and cools every 30 years or so. The warm spell which is now finished was nothing new and was cooler than the one before which was cooler than the one before and so on. The planet as a whole has been cooling for 4.55 billion years.
    However you have the right to go without electricity and heat and transportation if you think your use of fossil fuels is harming the planet.
  • Well Well Well
    Remember Al GOre was the same ass hole who supported free trade and how good that was going to be...now we know how that works.
  • Well Well Well
    This story is real bias too
  • Well Well Well
    We can't stop climate change and Al Gore is full of shit...full stop. I AM A HUGE ANTI pollution guy, infact I am the biggest tree hugger I know, but I know that Al Gore is full of shit...period. This is a tax scam and nothing more, we need to give even more money to Goldman sachs..thats what this is really about.
  • An email isn't science. If there's scientific evidence of Global Warming, and an email says otherwise, you believe the email over the science?
  • Adam503
    The satellite photos of the melting of the polar ice caps over the last 30 years is all the evidence that is needed to scientifically prove global warming. Anyone who isn't legally blind has already seen that irrefutable photographic proof that global warming is real.

    There are still people around that claim the world is flat with satellite photos of a sphere shaped Earth being waved in their faces. Claims that global warming isn't real are no different that claims the Earth is flat.
  • Boson Bison
    Put pressure on Big Oil, Coal, Nuclear, and Polluting Armies and Corporations. Leave the little guy alone.
  • vivianwarkentin
    NASA and atmospheric scientists ARE hiding the truth: That they are creating climate change with geoengineering already. Those of us who watch the sky know. We see it every day. The scientists are making man made clouds. Look up!!!! You are the blind ones. Maybe if you stopped trusting scientists who want to play god, you might be able to see what is really going on. Ever seen a jet contrail expand into an enormous bank of phoney cloud cover and last for hours and actually turn a blue sky white? Ever heard of the CARE rocket? These scientists are mad Dr. Strangeloves. They have already done incredible damage. They are experimenting with our atmosphere. Will you gullible ones open your minds and look at some other causes besides CO2?

    Please look into this. California Skywatch.com

    Vivian Warkentin
  • vivianwarkentin
    NASA and atmospheric scientists ARE hiding the truth: That they are creating climate change with geoengineering already. Those of us who watch the sky know. We see it every day. The scientists are making man made clouds. Look up!!!! You are the blind ones. Maybe if you stopped trusting scientists who want to play god, you might be able to see what is really going on. Ever seen a jet contrail expand into an enormous bank of phoney cloud cover and last for hours and actually turn a blue sky white? Ever heard of the CARE rocket? These scientists are mad Dr. Strangeloves. They have already done incredible damage. They are experimenting with our atmosphere. Will you gullible ones open your minds and look at some other causes besides CO2?

    Please look into this. California Skywatch.com

    Vivian Warkentin
  • Adam503
    Global warming is just real as sphere shaped Earth. Satellite photos prove both.

    Denying global warming = claiming the Earth is flat
  • Eve
    Wial, how young are you? Did you not know that the NW passage in the Arctic was open in the 40's and in 1900, not to even mention that the whole arctic was wide open in the Medieval Warm Period. Did you know that the Arctic ice has increased 25% in the past two year and that the NW passage has not been open? If you are incapable of understanding this, please sell your house or apt and live on the streets. At least you will not be using fossil fuel energy.
  • therealjoeschmoe
    Wow Eve, you've been around a long time...

    Again, cherry-picking the data for convenience. How about going back just a little further? 25% increase is easy after a huge decrease.

    How funny you like reach back to 1900 and even the Middle Ages and then just the past two years. All you need to do is add how your local climate isn't warming the past two years and we'll have the whole picture.

    If you don't understand that...
  • Adam503
    I smell horseshit being shoveled.

    Satelite photos of melting ice caps provide irrefutable proof.

    Take your doctored reports and compost it with all the other horseshit.
  • Savantster
    .
    "Arctic ice has increased 25% in the past two year"

    because 2007 was the lowest recorded levels since 1970 ( http://novascience.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/arc... ) .. and has a nice little graph showing the overall DECLINE, and a huge dip in 2007 that is recovering for the short term (doesn't negate the trend).

    It amazes me how people can be so easily fooled by statistics.. "25% increase in 2 years" ..sure, after a 50% reduction from 1979, and the numbers would be in 2007 the low was 2.5 million square Km, up to 5.5 now, down from roughly 8 in 1979.. the trend is DOWN over time, with year to year fluctuations being erratic.
    .
  • Adam503
    Satelite photos proof of retreating global warming is real in a way anyone who isn't blind or in denial in the same way that religious exremists claim cavemen rode dinosaurs 6000 years ago.
  • worldwideslop
    Lame slam on David icke . Can you people who voted for gore not admit he's a fraud? Think about this: he chose Lieberman
  • Ignore the academic malfeasance and move along your way taxpayers!!!


    Seriously, this is EXTREMELY important. The emails I have read suggest at the very least academic dishonesty serious enough that several tenured professors will likely loose their positions. Perhaps some people haven't noticed but it has been getting colder not warmer like the theories say should be happening.

    The other VERY important part of this, presuming the data is legit, is that it PROVES the scientific debate was altered to remove those voices critical of Anthropogenic Global Warming. An informed public debate is VITAL and that scientists were silenced should concern even the most devout supporter of climate change.

    With Copenhagen coming up we need to take a step back and CLOSELY examine this Cap and Trade system. The one that makes a mansion living hypocrite rich and yet will probably mean my off-grid, solar powered cabin can NOT BE SOLD without "improvements" costing more than it is worth... an estimated 6,800 a year per US household of improvements will need to be done for a house's energy certification, without which the house CAN NOT BE SOLD. Thats really messed up.

    What I saw in the 8 dark years under the Mad King George W has not changed, the insane march to hand governing agents yet more powers remains unchecked.
  • Savantster
    .
    "Perhaps some people haven't noticed but it has been getting colder not warmer like the theories say should be happening."

    based on what data? Because everything I've seen shows an upward trend over the past 100 years, with a statistically insignificant drop with cherry picked data for the past decade, and over the past few years, the upward trend is on again.
    .
  • davidrvelasquez
    Funny, usually those that pick at anthropogenic climate change theories latch on to the generalized world of 'NWO collectivist' conspiracy theories... and one of the big things they harp on about, that I don't necessarily disagree with, is about the right to personal privacy and invasion of privacy issues. Except that here, we have a case of somepeople from their side of the debate violating the privacy of the discussions of others and exploiting them to further their own cause.
    Which makes them disingenuous -for taking the comments out of context, and hypocrits -for using private communication obtained by violating the rights of others.
  • fannymae
    I hope these hackers are apprehanded and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Stupid pigs.
  • The thing that really gets me, is scientists who deny Global Warming are on Exxon-Mobil's payroll. That's enough for me. Period. I don't even need any scientists convincing me there's such thing.

    Here's what it is: I'd like to see a scientist funded by Exxon-Mobil say there's Global Warming. THEN...I'll believe the other scientists funded by Exxon-Mobil.
  • fanakapan
    For those EnviroMarxists among you, it would seem that at this point, only a Selection of the Server's harvest of Fraud has been released, so it would be logical to assume that more Entertainment is to come.

    The inescapable Logic is that the Intellectually Indolent, who have promoted the Climate Change agenda, will within Months, be regarded in the same vein as Flat Earth proponents.
  • jimbo92107
    This just in - air pollution doesn't exist!

    Right wingers can celebrate by throwing parties in their closed garages with the car running!
  • turnip
    Cap and Trade is about controlling the globes monetary activity from a central seat of power, not the emission of carbon. That's why there it does not matter that it does nothing to curb emissions. It's just another way to equalize the living standards amongst trading participants, and consequently taxing and extorting the entire globe to pay for their own eco-enslavement to a fraudulent debt based money system forever. What has not already been achieved through trade treaties, the formation of sovereign nation unions, blocks, etc, will be completed through this new 'religion' of saving us from ourselves of course. Eliminate the need for constant growth necessary in the debt based money system , and you eliminate the need for inflation, which would then allow sustainability and efficiency to be an option. This would lower emissions projections over time exponentially. Focus on the framework, not the effects. For the record, we cannot control one square foot of the natural environment with any reliability. Not one foot, kept in stasis. To think that we somehow have unraveled all of the variations of Billions of years in just so few, is highly arrogant from my perspective. Anyone that tells you they have is selling something.
  • Savantster
    .
    Smog.

    Ozone.

    You're belief that we're not capable of altering the planet in drastic and negative ways is ignorant, not rooted in other's arrogance. In fact, you're suggesting science is voodoo and can't impact anything.. I'll point you to Hiroshima.
    .
  • dan_from_nz
    Well it's obvious what side of the fence this author is on. Why even bother?

    This is the time for the sceptics to shine so just sit back & relax Warmers.
  • jimbo92107
    Just out - Air pollution doesn't exist!
  • A. Magnus
    When you single global warming advocate throw away their car, move out of their house and start living in a teepee then you can believe they are genuinely concerned for the environment. All you see are a bunch of yuppies trying to be fashionable while driving around in their fleets of limos (paging Al Gore) while telling everyone else they have to sacrifice for the 'greater good.'

    The truth of the matter is that the environmental movement is funded by the oil companies in order to create artificial resource scarcity through 'adversarial' legal action, which then drives up the price of oil above what the market would normally pay. You environmentalists need to see why Wall Street foundations are the biggest donor to Greenpeace - it's not because they have a heart.

    It's because the mega-rich hate competing with the middle class for natural resources. By propagandizing a fake threat they mega-rich get to guilt the middle class out of their rights and resources so that the mega-rich can have them all for themselves. It's a classic scam that almost nobody who has already been duped will admit they were taken by...
  • mrtinez666
    Get these guys to hack the RNC and Bush admin email systems. Then we can know for sure about 9/11, 2004/2004 vote tampering, US Attorney firings, Rove, De Lay, C Street, all that stuff.
  • wyt
    We can't afford them. It takes the likes of ExxonMobil to hire Russian hackers of this caliber for espionage.
  • Boson Bison
    The climate fluctuates like Oprah's weight.
  • vaj3000
    What? No one is denying anything.....except the global warming brigade.

    You seem to think you haver a monopoly on the truth. IF anyone is showing arrogance and stupidity its you for ignoring complete scientific views
  • vaj3000
    What? No one is denying anything.....except the global warming brigade.

    You seem to think you haver a monopoly on the truth. IF anyone is showing arrogance and stupidity its you for ignoring complete scientific views
  • dennycrane
    It doesn't matter until you are looking at an iceberg coming at you, at about 60 mph. Oh, and by the way The Mayan calendar is right: 2012 PALIN/?
  • therealjoeschmoe
    Speaking of icebergs.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/austr...

    This MUST be an indicator of a new Ice Age upon us... Icebergs would never break off of the antarctic shelve due to melting. Now, they just pop up in the ocean due to global cooling (that was for you BigDawg).
  • Simpleton
    Er, they do not.

    If they did, you'd posting the details.
  • therealjoeschmoe
    If I were ExxonMobil, Shell, BP, the coal and auto industries, etc. I would certainly have the means to scare up some emails/docs such as this. And how convenient before Copenhagen.

    Do some real reading on the topic before making weak 'skeptical' claims. What? Skeptical about GW but not skeptical about these stole "real" documents? Absurd.

    http://globalchange.mit.edu/files/document/MITJ...

    There are some hidden thresholds that are very dangerous. Trapped on the ocean floor are millions of tons of Methane Hydrate which comes out of solution at 59 degrees F as methane gas. Methane is 23 times more dangerous as a green house gas than CO2. If that stuff gets in the atmosphere, the planet temperature in the future could be close to Venus which is 600 degrees. This is the serious stuff. A 15 degree rise in ocean water would cause almost all of it to bubble to the surface, if so, we’re toast—literally. Have a look at page 27.

    Let's face it, American's cause the most pollution on the earth. And whine the most about doing something about. "It's not MY problem, my kids and their kids be damned." OR, "Gee, I don't SEE anything good coming from taking greener steps (instant gratification) so what's the point."
  • wial
    why is it so important to deny the fact we have to save the planet from near total extinction, possibly in our lifetimes if enough tipping points are crossed?

    is it cowardice? human evil? arrogance? sheer stupidity?

    something like that, anyway. go look at the arctic icecap extent graphs for crying out loud. we're in very serious trouble, it's the great cause of our times, and people still have the temerity to doubt it? there comes a point when it's beyond morally wrong and blitheringly ignorant, it's completely unacceptable, a true casus bellum, unlike all the idiotic little oil wars the powers of greed and hate have supported with the witless consent of masses of pigs at their horrid little troughs.

    shudder shudder. wake up to your humanity, your reason, your responsibility to face facts and deal with emergencies. please.
  • davewtf
    Very simply, if global warming IS real - and I am not a scientist, nor in that field - then the deniers will stay that way until it is literally too late. There should have been a new American revolution back when Bush was president. The fact that there was not tells me that American's have become too fat, lazy, and comfortable in their own lives to accept the fact that something really needs to be done. Don't expect the average American to care about these things until mother nature has taken everything from them. Of course, at that point they will just say it is God's or the Devil's work, and go to their makeshift church and do a whole lot of praying and then come out and blame the gays/liberals/feminists and whomever else they can think of other than their fat/lazy selves.
  • pcinsc
    whether you believe in GW or not -- we should not be polluting the earth. pollution makes us sick and even kills. oil, natural gas, and nuclear energy sources are finite. renewables are what we need.
  • Since when did pollution come to only be about carbon emissions. I remember a time when sulfuroxides and freons were on the top of the big no no. Compounds that truly and visible impact(/ed) the environment.

    I do very much agree that we should not pollute by dumping various external elements in environments they don't belong, harvest the rainforrests to oblivion, fish/hunt species to extinction etc.

    But for me, reducing the CO2 emissions is way waaay down on the list on what is important and imminent.

    Sadly caring about the environment has come to be 80% about battling possible future catastrophes as derived from several (forced) computer generated models.

    Sickening.
  • Savantster
    .
    If you don't think CO2 is a poison, feel free to put a bag over your head and and seal it around your neck and don't ever take it off.

    And why is science great when it gives you new toys, but bad when it warns of "future catastrophes"? In fact, the "visible" problems you noted above weren't "a real problem" at the moment they were seen, it was the FUTURE CATASTROPHES that were being avoided by reversing course.

    Just because you can't see CO2 with your eyes doesn't mean it's not causing a problem. You can't see viruses with your eyes either, but they can kill you.
    .
  • 'only a few diehard skeptics doubt that the warming of the last few decades is real'

    The mean global temperature has not risen since 1998, but don't take my word for it:

    “I hope you’re not right about the lack of warming lasting
    till about 2020. I’d rather hoped to see the earlier Met Office
    press release with Dxxx’s paper that said something like -
    half the years to 2014 would exceed the warmest year currently on record, 1998! Still a way to go before 2014.

    I seem to be getting an email a week from skeptics saying
    where’s the warming gone. I know the warming is on the decadal
    scale, but it would be nice to wear their smug grins away.”
    Pxxx Jxxxx

    So please, if you must keep the bias, atleast stick to the facts.
  • Savantster
    .
    that FOX Noise talking point has been readily debunked over and over. The global temperatures have consistently risen over the past 100 years, including the past decade (it was basically flat over the past decade, but had a very slight rise; not statistically significant though). But you can't look at a tiny snapshot in time and conclude the trend for the past 100 years. Doesn't work that way.
    .
  • wyt
    That's nonsense. 2008 was a one-year reversion to a cooler temperature. The trends over the decade are decidedly in the direction of warming. You can't just take one point in time that best fits your bias.
  • Bill
    They got 160 Mb of emails. Do you know how easy it would be to edit a few ?
  • Savantster
    .
    The article says 61 megaBITS, divide that by 8 to get bytes, and you have 7 mega bytes. That's a few dozen with attachments, or up to maybe a hundred or so at most.

    and that is supposed to undo terrabytes of data supporting the conclusion? not to anyone with a brain.
    .
  • Alex
    it's not just republicans and conservatives who don't believe the global warming hoax. don't be such a stupid partisan sheep, think on your own for once.
  • Stephen52
    There seem to be a lot of scientists here who aren't convinced of AGW:

    http://www.petitionproject.org/
  • ken
    could we at least try to conceal our bias when writing a "NEWS" article
  • paul_c
    Oh no, a right wing blogger is going apeshit over nothing at all! This is truly remarkable!
  • unclejess
    don't worry. jesus will take us all to heaven where it has a stable climate. all except you. you stay here and roast in hell.
  • Cabsarefab
    I wrote part of a scientific paper on how Bucky balls and other lower fullerenes were discovered in the exhaust of a 1971 Volvo 1800E. It was just an exercise but the english teacher thought I got it out of a journal. It's easy to fool the uneducated.
  • dennycrane
    Nice car!
  • Cabsarefab
    This sounds rather contrived. I smell a frame-up. I bet this material is made up or taken out of context. Those don't exactly look like things to gloat over. BTW, it is easy to fake these sort of things.
  • Big_dawg
    I live in Rockford Illinois, last year (2008) was the first year on record where the high temperature NEVER rose above 90 degrees!!! This year 2009 we went over 90 only 3 days!! Liars figure and figures lie. I can only trust local data, can you?
  • Savantster
    .
    You're making the (abused) mistake of confusing "weather" with "climate". Weather patterns all over the planet will be in flux and will change as the climate changes. Some places that are now hot could become cooler, and other places that are barely livable will become drought stricken wastelands..

    If your understanding of a global system is to look out your window and decide the fate of the planet, you should go back to watching Jerry Springer and leave the thinking to people who's understanding and ability to think extend beyond the little box they live in.
    .
  • MrPunch
    Wow you really are an elitist wannabe...

    Still no evidence I see...

    You are a magician trying to confuse people with rhetoric, in order to allocate the "power" to yourself....
  • Savantster
    .
    If you're really that stupid, to think that weather is the same as climate, despite the readily available definitions of both (shall I post the dictionary.com links for you?), and suggest that I'm just an "elitist wannabe", then you're suggesting that "knowing things" is not important. You're suggesting that science in general is magic and people should just thank god, since he's the one that does it all anyway, right?

    "we don't need none of that there fancy book learnin! Damned elitist late' drinking faggots read books, we don't need that kind of thing around here!".. right?

    The saddest thing is you're saying I provide no "evidence", but you can't seem to bother going out and seeing if what I say is accurate, you just expect me to cut/paste various dissertations into this thread for you? and you'll only dismiss it all anyway, since it's that fancy elitist bullshit of acting like words actually MEAN something.


    and by the way moron.. I'm not interested in "power", I'm interested in having a habitable planet to live on for the rest of my life, and one that my child and eventual grand children can live on. It has nothing to do with "power", but I guess wanting a clean habitable world is just some "elitist bullshit".
    .
  • MrPunch
    Nothing you just said has anything to do with my response..

    lol

    Weather being different than climate is not evidence that "climate change" is man made, yet you yell at people like a priest ordering repentance.

    You just seem to attack everyone and are very defensive...
  • Savantster
    .
    Then what you said had nothing to do with the topic of this sub-thread.. some moron claimed that his "local weather" was proof that "global climate" was not changing. The entire premise has nothing to do with anything being man made or otherwise.

    If you want evidence of man made global warming, just look around on the interwebs, its all there.. and I can't exactly "post proof" in this thread, nothing that will satiate your hunger, anyway.
    .
  • therealjoeschmoe
    Well I'm glad you're not a scientist. And if you are please retire. Most people I know from Rockford rarely leave Rockford. Which is how l like it. Stay in your paradise.

    I live in the real WORLD. Science is studying the WORLD climate, not Rockford's, and OVER TIME, not this year and last. Sure, it was a mild summer this year in IL so it must Global Cooling. Brrrr.
  • deeprince
    OK well this is the real Scientific Data on the Worlds Temp over the past ten years. Funny thing is there has been no warming. Even stranger to quote from above
    "You don't seem to think all the pollution we're putting in the air could possibly effect overall climate"

    Sounds like that mind set is supported by the Science

    Climatologists Baffled by Global Warming Time-Out

    By Gerald Traufetter

    Global warming appears to have stalled. Climatologists are puzzled as to why average global temperatures have stopped rising over the last 10 years. Some attribute the trend to a lack of sunspots, while others explain it through ocean currents.....

    The planet's temperature curve rose sharply for almost 30 years, as global temperatures increased by an average of 0.7 degrees Celsius (1.25 degrees Fahrenheit) from the 1970s to the late 1990s. "At present, however, the warming is taking a break," confirms meteorologist Mojib Latif of the Leibniz Institute of Marine Sciences in the northern German city of Kiel. Latif, one of Germany's best-known climatologists, says that the temperature curve has reached a plateau. "There can be no argument about that," he says. "We have to face that fact."

    Even though the temperature standstill probably has no effect on the long-term warming trend, it does raise doubts about the predictive value of climate models, and it is also a political issue. For months, climate change skeptics have been gloating over the findings on their Internet forums. This has prompted many a climatologist to treat the temperature data in public with a sense of shame, thereby damaging their own credibility.

    "It cannot be denied that this is one of the hottest issues in the scientific community," says Jochem Marotzke, director of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology in Hamburg. "We don't really know why this stagnation is taking place at this point."....

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,151...
  • Big_dawg
    The problem with scientists and journalists are they have an agenda first
    then they look for evedence to prove their agenda and ignore evidence to the
    contrary. Did you ever notice that when jerks don't have an argument they go
    immediately to name calling and personal insults. Check your local climate
    the past three years. You will find NO proof of climate change. Al Gore is
    making millions off of fools.
  • Savantster
    .
    "Check your local climate
    the past three years. You will find NO proof of climate change."

    LMFAO.. see? weather (localized and short term) is not climate (global trends over time).

    I'd call you ignorant and foolish, but you'd say I don't have an argument and just ignore the argument I made.. so, I'll leave it at that.
    .
  • LWells
    You could have the coldest summer on record next year and it would prove nothing. Do you actually base your opinion about the existence of worldwide long-term climate alteration on whether you are having a hot or just warm summer? Seriously? Jesus, can you be any more self-centered?

    So should I argue against the existence of snow if I live in Miami? What is this "90 degrees" you talk about? There is no such thing as "90 degrees" here in Antarctica. You must be some kind of swindler...

    "local...last three years" of a worldwide decades long climate alteration. Sure, dawg, sure.
  • therealjoeschmoe
    Again, local is not the point. My bank account is good (doesn't not equal) so the economy is good. My city has "only" 8% unemployment instead of 10% so the recession is a joke.

    Now you want to make it three years... believe locally, deny globally.

    I'll be waiting for the article that says, "Scientists from around the world converged on Rockford, IL as it's the key indicator or global warming and found that the last year or two was more mild that other years so they packed up their stuff realizing that global warming is a hoax."
  • lorn
    Actually what looks contrive to me is this damage control article we are commenting on.

    The label 'skeptics' and the term 'stolen' are prominently featured in the headline...........exactly the same terms being used by CNN et al.

    People who operate within the simplistic and entirely fake two party democracy paradigm hate Gore or love him.
    Several years ago I looked up to Gore, loved his movie and was totally on the GW bandwagon. Not because I researched it, but because I am a green hippie type who naturally gravitated to that stuff.

    Critical thinking led me to understand how the Clintons and Bushes are the same. The 911 crime was a giant lie and is now being covered up by Democrats.
    Gore is part of the same class of dirty liars and criminals who are destroying the US and on board with the new world government.
    The cap and trade does NOTHING concrete or immediate for the environment and is just one more world tax, world authority that will erode the power of nation states.

    Do your own homework on GW and it will blow your mind how the cap and trade is doing nothing for the environment, nothing.

    Gore is as fake as Bush or Obama or Clinton or Pelosi or McCain.

    Wake up people, please!
  • Savantster
    .
    Interestingly, what you're showing here is that we should not trust "those who seek to profit from _everything_" to solve the real problems of the world, but you do nothing to support any idea that AGW might not be real. If you chose to disbelieve AGW because there are some "corrupt individuals" connected to it, or because of the ridiculous plans they want to put in place (pretending it will help when it will just make more money for the few off the backs of the masses), then you are denying science because of a few bad apples.. you might as well never go to a doctor because some times they request tests that aren't needed (to increase profits) or preform operations that aren't needed (same reasoning), so you can't believe that any medical processes are ever valid.

    Logic is all that's required, and without it, we go back to being cavemen.
    .
  • lorn
    No clever wordsmith, no.
    There are not a few corrupt individuals associated with it. It is entirely run and contrived from the top by criminals like Gore who is the same as Clinton Bush and Obama.

    See above where I wrote about the dirty sneaky false choice game played by neocon scum? Read it...........I'm clearly talking about people like you. I mean that IS what you are doing right?
  • Savantster
    .
    No, that's what you're doing.. actually.. your "false choice" is "either it's real, or only fabricated by lying abusers like Bush/Gore/etc.". There is another possible answer, and that is "it is real, and abusers like Gore/Bush/Clinton etc. will take advantage of us while trying to fix the problem"... to that, I could concede.. but to pretend all of the science behind GW is being faked, to imply that it's a HUGE conspiracy covering 10s of thousands of people, it laughable.

    From your posts, it seems you would deny it is 10:00am if a rapist told you the time because the rapist is a bad person, so you must ignore all facts that come from that person. I don't get that.

    And it has nothing to do with "wordsmithing", it has to do with the premise that even a broken clock is right twice a day.
    .
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