For the Republicans it's all about freedom: the freedom to discriminate against fellow Americans based upon color, race, gender and age; the freedom to starve; the freedom to be poor; the freedom to die from not having either health care or health insurance; the freedom to invade other countries for no reason; the freedom to torture and lie about it. Conservatives, true conservatives [not the reactionary Randians, gun-nutters, immaculate conceptioners, creationists, forced laborites, and generally lightly-educated] theoretically should not be opposing such social welfare reforms which strengthen the nation. Churchill wouldn't oppose this. I am less afraid of my government than I am of Wall Street; Bank Street; Finance Street; and Insurance Street. Those white guys [almost exclusively] put the economy in the toilet and are keeping their hand on the flush handle. They are the ones that do not care about anything other than money. the argument "You'll be jailed" is hardly frightening. How many people are jailed for driving without insurance? Not many and only after many many convictions. Clinton had the country on a paying basis. "W" [stands for Worst] bankrupted the goverment.

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The Republicans "have better solutions to lower costs and expand access to quality care".

Indeed. After you die a miserable and entirely preventable death, I understand the medical care in the AfterLife (tm) is quite good. Cheap. No wait. Good drugs.

...
And 37 Dems support that tripe, along with these Nationalists - I mean Republicans? Shameful.
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In all fairness, not all the 37 Dems voted against the bill out of cowardice. Kucinich, at least, voted on principle....

I'm seriously torn on this. This bill is far from great, but isn't it a step in the right direction? I can only hope that, whatever shape it takes, it will provide at least a starting point for *real* reform down the line, reform that doesn't pander so much to the monied interests.

Right? I hope?

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mandated insurance without fair options is a net burden on the public. Government is not supposed to burden the public, it is supposed to make life better for the public. Our current system makes life better for the ruling elite while screwing the public.

In fact, the premise of "all men are created equal" implies we probably should have a Socialism in America where all men equally partake of the benefits created from our vast wealth. Instead, it's being siphoned up to the top 10% while the other 90% are left holding the bill. That sounds more like Feudalism to me, and we all know Kings are "created better" than "peasants", right?

The only bill that makes sense, the only way to ensure costs and waste come down while covering everyone and having everyone contribute is a payroll tax and single payer. Period. Anything else is trying to put lipstick on a pig. The bill they are passing not only puts lipstick on it, but a pretty dress and demands you call it mommy.
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Like I said, I am seriously- almost painfully- torn on this. I would love to see a single payer system, because society is inherently, well, social. It infuriates me when I hear republicans all talking about "my rights" and "my freedoms" and "my this" and "my that" - all without recognizing that what's good for your neighbor is good for you. Keep people healthy, and you'll stay healthy. Keep people employed, and you'll have a job. The selfcenteredness is astounding - and bodes ill for us all.

But the sad fact is that we live in America, where a good quarter of the population suffers from willful ignorance and revels gleefully in its own stupidity and narrow-mindedness. To them, politics is a football game, with red and blue jerseys, with nothing to do with policy or real idealism. And this fact that so many are so anti-intellectual and incurious makes this a very longterm problem. So maybe this bill is a reasonable *starting* point? Maybe more is an unrealistic goal for the immediate present?

I honestly don't know. Right now, as this thing gets closer to becoming a done deal, I'm wrestling with how to respond. When someone knocks on my door and asks me to choose a private plan because the state says I have to... I'm going to choose "none of the above". And then what happens?

"Americans want a common-sense approach to health care reform"

True, Bonehead. That's why we threw your sorry, useless, unproductive asses out after 8 miserable years. You all prevented healthcare reform in 1992. Where was that 'common sense approach' since then?

"Republicans have better solutions to lower costs and expand access to quality care....
without adding to the crushing debt Washington has placed on our children and grandchildren"

Republicans have NOTHING. Republicans offer NOTHING. Republicans are liars and deceivers.

"Our plan will lower premiums by up to 10 percent"

Your 'plan' my ass! What plan you moron. You think the word 'plan' is a plan? In your world, I guess. In our world a 'plan' is what we are getting now-although even that plan has been severly deformed by your pansy fraudulent asses.

Boehner? The same guy who went before the nation on TV and proudly showed the nation that he and his fellow party members don't even know the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, which they supposedly took an oath to defend? Admittedly, they did not take an oath to read it, but even so. If he's going to wave it around like Joe McCarthy's list of 205 communists in the State Department, he ought to know what's in it.

No wonder they call him Bonehead.

‘Healthcare bill will dim the light of freedom’

What a dim bulb.

ophie, just so you know, the majority of this bill, well over 90% of it will be paid for by streamlining ad cutting administrative costs with the savings then being used to pay for the plan.
The CBO which is a non partisan office gave it it's highest recommendation as it pretains to the impact it would have on the debt.
I will also point out that the President has indicated that he would sign no health care overhaul that was not a "pay as you go" piece of legislation which means that unlike when Bush pushed for Medicare part D which did NOT get funded and included in the budget and therefore was left for the states to cover, this healthcare overhaul will be mostly self sustaining if not completely self sustaining.

The Republicans don'tcare about the average person - BIG surprise!, they care about their corporate buddies and big name donors in this ight being the health insurance companies and they're trying to keepthe gravy train rolling.
I can't wait to see what kind of conniption the health insurance companies are going to have when they lose their anti trust exemption, that's next up by the way as another part of the healthcare overhaul, once they lose that and will be able to compete across state ines and won't be allowed to cut back room deals where they slice up the country into territories so they can monopolize areas of the country's healthcare market then we'll see them all at their finest, ripping each other to shreds as they TRULY compete for once in their existence.
It will NOT caus any of them to go out of business but what it will do is guarantee that the consumer will not get gouged and will get TRUE choice in the healthcare marketplace.
Let's see Bone-head Boner and his Republican buddies fight the removal of the anti trust exemption and show what true hypocrites they are since they always say he "Market takes care of and corrects itself" and extoll the virues of capitaism with competition let's see how they react when their healthcare company buddies are going to actually face REAL competition.
I predict they will poop themselves then try to find some way to pin it on the President saying he's anti private sector and trying to bankrupt the healthcare companies in order for the government to take over when in fact it will be nothing like that.

Memo to John "How's My Tan" Boehner:

I guess when you die for want of health care, you are finally free. Grayson is right. The GOP health care plan: Don't get sick. If you do, die quickly.

Obama has done more in less then a year then Bush did in eight! The only thing Bush showed the American public is that any idiot can be elected to be President.

I agree, Obama = 8 * Bush. Bush < 0.

I disagree. Bush did one hell of a lot in a very short time.
Two wars, both of which are "quagmires" (1st one in the first 9 months)
PATRIOT ACT (first 9 months)
Gitmo (first year)
Torture (first year)
Clear skys
No child left behind (first 2 years?)
more bank deregulation -> bailout (2003)
Two hard right/corporate supreme court justices!
and on and on
The things he did in two years are amazing (not all the above was in two years)..None of it positive or good. It must be easier to destroy a country than improve it.

What GOP Boner really meant after the Health Reform Bill passed the House:

"this bill that dim the light of freedom and diminish opportunity FOR CURRENT AND future generations MIDDLE-CLASS AND POOR AMERICANS TO DIE QUICKLY FOR LACK OF HEALTH CARE."

GOP, RIGHT-WING & CONSERVATIVES = DENY HEALTH CARE FOR MIDDLE-CLASS AND POOR AMERICANS ON AS LARGE A SCALE AS POSSIBLE.

The profits made by these health insurance companies by their claim & coverage denials (for these middle-class & poor Americans) is the money that is funding the campaigns of GOP, RIGHT-WING & CONSERVATIVES for federal & state elected offices. Eliminate the profits by a single payer health system or enact laws with strict regulations for these health insurance companies, then their profits reduce or go down over time & these health care companies will stop playing GOD & close their doors & fold up. Until this fold up happens, the progressives who fight for middle class & the poor should fight on. The crap about our freedom being lost is utter nonsense being propagated by the GOP, Right-Wing nut cases & Conservatives.

What did the CBO say about your GOP plan boner.

America is the only industrialized country in the world that allows its healthcare system to make a profit. They make huge profits so it goes without saying, the more they deny, the more profit they rake in. Hospitals and insurance companies should make enough money to pay their people well (and I don't mean shareholders) and run the company well. Only when the profit motive is removed from healthcare will Americans receive real honest quality healthcare. Pharmaceutical companies also should only make enough money to pay their people well and to be able to put a good percentage back into R&D. Big corporate profits and golden parachutes are counterproductive and cause the prices of drugs to be so high that ordinary people without adequate insurance coverage cannot afford to pay for lifesaving drugs and treatments. This is just wrong.

You went to WA DC to renew the American dream? Then WHY did you trash it, send all our jobs off to foreign lands and ruin our children's futures? Is THAT supposed to be the American dream? Boehner, you SUCK SHIT. You have done your share to destroy this country from the inside out, you bastard! How the fuck dare you open your greasy, shit sucking mouth to speak to ANY OF US whose future's you've destroyed?
Go away and fake tan yourself to death, will you? This country doesn't need any more traitors in high places.

I'm glad to see you're using that laptop I gave you, Grandma :-)

I think he is a handsome man with a very nice studio tan. I get the idea he is a blast to hang out with in bars. He seems pretty inept at his job though. I think, as one of his colleagues said, that this health care fiasco will turn out to be their Waterloo. It will be sad if the GOP goes away. Lately they have been a real sorce of comedic entertainment. No satire needed either. Their pronouncements and antics are hilarious without any charicaturizing.

I suppose I thin M. Bachman will be the first to fade away. Sigh.

"bill will dim the light of freedom"
Yes, especially if women's rights are thrown out only to remain completely unsupported by House Republicans (save 1)