As a 2 tour Viet Vet it amazes me to see anyone defend Bush. When I returned from my first tour Bush was spitting on over 100,000 who were on waiting lists for non-deploying Guard Units as he stepped over them to the head of the line. When I returned from the second tour, he was AWOL in Alabama and stopped flying with over 2 years remaining on his obligation. He failed to produce any record of ever flying again and no CO cleared him.. . Cheney had 5 deferments, Rove had 4, Limbaugh and O'Rielly at least one each. How can any Patriotic American support these cowards.

TANCREDO IS A FUCKING LIAR! and I'm glad Moulitsas called him on it. I'm a Viet Vet who goes to his VA clinic with a smile on his face. I KNOW I will be treated with respect; I KNOW that I will get the best care available; I KNOW that I walk out after a physical or treatment and not have a bill in my pocket that will make me yet ANOTHER homeless vet.

I am currently being tested for possible skin cancer NOT service-related; agent orange symptoms that have recently emerged; and Post Traumatic Stress by a counselor for over three years. I have also been through the VA system THREE times for alcoholism and addiction (Service-related). NEVER have I been treated unkindly or not given, in my opinion, the BEST of care.

Tacredo's cowardly "walk-off" when rightly called a "Chickenhawk" should be done more and more to the lying bastards and no apology as Moulitsas refused to give. I rest my case.

I've never served, but did have to register for the draft when I turned 18. Had I served, it would've been because of patriotic obligation. It sad to see supposed leaders (all of the Republican Ilk) who are the most vociferous war proponents all themselves cowards of a certain breed. I guess sending someone else's kid in to do the dirty work is just fine with them. If you talk the talk then walk the fucking walk. Otherwise just shut the fuck up. And that goes for Tancredo since he's one of the most annoying people in a public office.

Good for you Markos!
It's about time we get tough with these S.O.B.'s and give it back to them as hard as they've been giving it for years.
If Tancredo and those of his ilk have glass jaws maybe they shouldn't get into the debate ring in the first place.
I love how guys like Tancredo and Cheney, Bush & Limbaugh who never served in the wars they were supposed to, like many of their peers did because they got deferrments for being cowards are all too willing to send someone else's kids to battle and send them without the equiptment they need and try to deprive them of the care they need when they come back.
I'm glad Markos had the guts to stand up to him just like Alan Grayson has been, maybe we'll finally get some tough liberals and Democrats out there to not let these ideological zealots run amouk.

As a Vietnam era Vet, I really get upset when Chicken-hawks crow! We should just do what's best for the country, all the time! PERIOD!

Still drooling the lie about Bush's service, eh? His CO went on the record to clear that mainstream media aspersion long ago but, we know you can't be bothered with facts.

Mark didn't serve in a war so, he has no idea what combat really is...neither has Grayson, no service at all.

You're more than welcome to test your theory about glass jaws...In fact, since you're incapable of shame and your own governance you will assuredly demand we show you who really has the glass jaw...but, we both know you'll be too busy running away.

Screw you - Bush was an AWOL deserter. And nobody skipped to the head of the Guard line unless their family had enough pull to garuntee silence and compliance from the commanders who looked the other way while it was going on. Cheney had "other priorities", but neither of them have ever seen a war they wouldn't happily send other people's kids to die in.
Now the next generation of profit-driven war-mongers is lining up for idiots like you to support: Prescott Bush - who campaigned for Uncle W on how necessary the invasion of Iraq was, but who, of course, wouldn't put his own ass on the line, and who went back to the boardrooms of Dallas while other Americans fought the war he said was necessary for our survival, is now getting a cushy, safe slot in the Navy so he can claim military cred when he runs for office.
And fools like you will jump on the bandwagon and wave the flag for him while our kids get sent off to whatever business deal war they drum up next - because it's all about endless war for endless profit to them.
By the way, like most of the realistic posters here, I'm a vet too, as was my father, both brothers, my daughter, and my son, who is an active duty Marine.
I'm so disgusted by the "I won't fight but I love endless war" Republicans - I'll take Alan Grayson and Markos over any of the draft dodging war mongers that make up the GOP.
One more thing - if you really support our military with more than just your BS, you can write a thank you note to Rep. Grayson - because he is the only member of Congress who has taken on the military contractors who have defrauded, endangered and killed our troops by not fulfilling their lucrative defense contracts - and he has won.
When our troops died of electrocution while trying to shower in Iraq because KBR didn't wire barracks correctly, when troops died because of shoddy, substandard, disfunctional equipment that cost us billions - Alan Grayson is the only person who took these companies to court and won judgements against them.
What have you done to make things better for our troops?
And you want to hit on Markos because he didn't see combat? Let me ask you something; who is more likely to have a chance of seeing combat, the person who claims deferments or just never serves but cheers war on from the sidelines? Or the person who raises his right hand and takes that oath to serve and defend? Markos served his country, and now he is a successful small business owner - Trancredo has made it his life's work to avoid service while simultaneously living off of the government he says he hates. He's a typical Repug - one hand out to take for himself and the other hand out to slap away anyone else's hand.
I cheered when Markos laid it on the line to Tancredo - and true to form, Tancredo ran away. I guess it's good he never served, he isn't the kind of man any soldier would want to have to count on in a battle - all you'd see is his back as he ran. But he'd be the first in line to cash in on any benefits.

I was a rifleman in the paratroopers in Vietnam (173rd Abn Bde). I volunteered for the Army, Infantry training, parachute training and then volunteered for duty in Vietnam. I hate the guts of cowards like Cheney and Bush and Rumsfeld. I never hated the draft dodgers who at least took their chances with the law, but god I hate a chicken hawk and those who defend them.

His CO, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, was deceased at the time the forged documents were 'leaked'. I doubt he went on the record about anything.
The basic facts are that Bush was found to have NOT fulfilled his requirement but still received an honorable discharge when he left for school in Boston.

Millions of vets never went into combat. During WWII, <40 percent of all troops saw actual combat. Most were support and command. Winghunter is making bad argument, but the truth is Markos did serve, did volunteer, did Basic Training, wore the uniform and gets the great benefits of having done so. Tancrado, Cheney, Bush and his ilk are cowardly men.

"Tancrado, Cheney, Bush and his ilk are cowardly men.", who still found a way to rip us off for better benefits than any of those who actually served received.

See, the difference is, those who serve get the benefits given to them by cowards like Bush, Cheney & Tancredo, who couldn't be bothered to fight the wars they claim are so necessary, but who line their own pockets at our expense and who make their living feeding at the public trough. In other words - Republicans.

YEa, where did you serve?

Talking to cons is like talking to two year olds and telling them not to play in traffic.
They just don't get it and never will.
The adults are in charge now and we'll do it without you.
You can thank us later.
We don't care about taking credit, we'll just fix what you have screwed up for 20 of the last 29 years.
Go back home, brush your tooth and STFU.
Oh yeah, have a nice day too.

Why is Tancredo so upset? For the entire run of the Bush administration all Republicans followed Karl Rove's lead which was: When you have absolutely nothing to offer, it's time to resort to personal attack. I guess there is a difference, what Moulitsas said was true and Republicans aren't known for being truthful.

The Bush administration did nothing but ignore the sniveling rants of Libiot brats trying to gain politically from it and it really ticked off Conservatives for not rightly breathing the fire of the truth.

Today, Conservatives have had all they're going to take from Libiots but, you keep right on pushing.

What was untrue about what Markos said?

Tancredo "supported" the Vietnam war just like Dick Cheney did, by encouraging OTHER men to go fight and die. Tancredo took the chickhawk route himself by getting doctor who also was a family friend (a coincidence of course) to declare him ineligible for medical reasons. Interestingly the poor dear man has had absolutely NO PROBLEMS filling and civilian roles that yield him money and power - it was just that little getting his ass shot at in a war that he supported that he was "unable" to do.

.

"Conservatives" no longer know who they are or who to take their marching orders from. You seem to lump all independent thinkers under your 'Libiot" umbrella.

If you bought into the Iraq war ideology, forgave the Bush administration for our near miss on economic disaster, and support or ignore the hundreds of ways that "Conservatives" use you to keep the money flowing in a particular direction, then by all means, you limit your debate to name calling and cutesy little bon mots. That's what your Overlords expect from you. Good job.

Cheez with your whine?

Hey, it isn't true that the Bush Administration did nothing. They did nothing good, but they did plenty - of damage. And they walked away much richer for it, of course.

As usual, we'll have to go in and clean up the messes.

Yep bunch of liberal idiots on this site. The fact is jerks the vast majority of the military is conservative. Just ask them. I have 2 nephews who have served on currently in Afghanistan and the other served in Iraq during the initial phase of that conflict. Both served in combat roles and both very conservative. Funny you jerks like to single out individual conservatives who haven't served and use terms like "chickenhawk". Has to be the dumbest most vapid term ever created by liberal idiots. The fact is conservatives serve their country disproportionately. Which is good because if it was you to you little liberal girly-boys we would be in big trouble.