Former UK ambassador: CIA sent people to be ‘raped with broken bottles’

By Daniel Tencer
Wednesday, November 4th, 2009 -- 3:31 pm
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craigmurray Former UK ambassador: CIA sent people to be raped with broken bottlesThe CIA relied on intelligence based on torture in prisons in Uzbekistan, a place where widespread torture practices include raping suspects with broken bottles and boiling them alive, says a former British ambassador to the central Asian country.

Craig Murray, the rector of the University of Dundee in Scotland and until 2004 the UK's ambassador to Uzbekistan, said the CIA not only relied on confessions gleaned through extreme torture, it sent terror war suspects to Uzbekistan as part of its extraordinary rendition program.

"I'm talking of people being raped with broken bottles," he said at a lecture late last month that was re-broadcast by the Real News Network. "I'm talking of people having their children tortured in front of them until they sign a confession. I'm talking of people being boiled alive. And the intelligence from these torture sessions was being received by the CIA, and was being passed on."

Human rights groups have long been raising the alarm about the legal system in Uzbekistan. In 2007, Human Rights Watch declared that torture is "endemic" to the country's justice system.

Murray said he only realized after his stint as ambassador that the CIA was sending people to be tortured in Uzbekistan, country he describes as a "totalitarian" state that has never moved on from its communist era, when it was a part of the Soviet Union.

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Suspects in Uzbekistan's gulags "were being told to confess to membership in Al Qaeda. They were told to confess they'd been in training camps in Afghanistan. They were told to confess they had met Osama bin Laden in person. And the CIA intelligence constantly echoed these themes."

"I was absolutely stunned -- it changed my whole world view in an instant -- to be told that London knew [the intelligence] coming from torture, that it was not illegal because our legal advisers had decided that under the United Nations convention against torture, it is not illegal to obtain or use intelligence gained from torture as long as we didn't do the torture ourselves," Murray said.

IT'S THE PIPELINE, STUPID

Murray asserts that the primary motivation for US and British military involvement in central Asia has to do with large natural gas deposits in Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. As evidence, he points to the plans to build a natural gas pipeline through Afghanistan that would allow Western oil companies to avoid Russia and Iran when transporting natural gas out of the region.

Murray alleged that in the late 1990s the Uzbek ambassador to the US met with then-Texas Governor George W. Bush to discuss a pipeline for the region, and out of that meeting came agreements that would see Texas-based Enron gain the rights to Uzbekistan's natural gas deposits, while oil company Unocal worked on developing the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

"The consultant who was organizing this for Unocal was a certain Mr. Karzai, who is now president of Afghanistan," Murray noted.

Murray said part of the motive in hyping up the threat of Islamic terrorism in Uzbekistan through forced confessions was to ensure the country remained on-side in the war on terror, so that the pipeline could be built.

"There are designs of this pipeline, and if you look at the deployment of US forces in Afghanistan, as against other NATO country forces in Afghanistan, you'll see that undoubtedly the US forces are positioned to guard the pipeline route. It's what it's about. It's about money, it's about oil, it's not about democracy."

The Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline is slated to be completed in 2014, with $7.6 billion in funding from the Asian Development Bank.

Murray was dismissed from his position as ambassador in 2004, following his first public allegations that the British government relied on torture in Uzbekistan for intelligence.

The following videos were posted to YouTube by the Real News Network on Oct. 26 and Nov. 4, 2009.

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Story comments are below...

  • The sad part is it does not even take broken bottles to get a confession. A little rope and a few hours in a "stress position" will do it. One of our Vietnam era pilots said that within minutes he was in such pain that he would have tossed his son into a furnace to make it stop. We admitted to using the "stress positions" on these people as if it were minor inconvenience.
  • matiaszubko
    Are you people serious?? Do you know that the people they are doing this type of things to are the same people who bombed the twin towers. How can you say the war on terror isn't real you are delusional if you truly think that. There are terrorist attacks everywhere and it is a major concern. I don't care what our government does as long as it keeps us safe. You can take the high ground and try to be ethical but the reality of the situation is that you can't. If we don't protect ourselves using whatever methods necessary they are just going to keep attacking us over and over again. I just can't believe so many people believe that we are the bad ones it just makes me go crazy
  • roderickrussell
    I admire Ambassador Craig Murray and frequently comment on his blog, but one doesn’t have to look only at the former Bush Administration, CIA or the United States to find evidence of torture. Torture is also actively being practiced by MI5/6 in the UK and by CSIS in Canada against innocent citizens who have a quarrel with their high establishment.

    My own story of torture started in Vancouver, BC many years ago, where I had worked for a company that is owned by Prince Charles's best friend. Its URL is:

    http://zerzetzen.wikispaces.com

    Both the Canadian and UK Governments are actively covering this up at the very highest levels. Documentation attached to the Wiki proves cover-up by a Cabinet Minister, Police, and a corrupted UK Judge. The matter has been put before both former UK-PM Blair, and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the cover - up conspiracy (to ensure that my well-witnessed and documented complaints of torture are never honestly investigated) still continues.

    My complaint has nothing whatsoever to do with national security issues. It has everything to do with MI5/6 and CSIS operating criminally as a private secret police for high establishment interests.

    The torture used is sometimes called no touch torture. It was invented by the former East German Secret Police "The Stasi" to persecute dissidents (without leaving marks) and they called it zerzetsen. It is a huge breach by the UK & Canada of the UN Convention on Human Rights. No touch or not, it poisons every part of a person’s life.

    Roderick Russell
    #207, 1733 – 27 Ave. SW
    Calgary AB T2T 1G9 Canada
    403.229.0864
  • CompleatPatriot
  • CompleatPatriot
    The CIA and MI6 always share intell, you heard it !!! That is because the CIA is under MI6, British SIS control the CIA-ISI-Mossad-Right on down the intelligencia lines.. Knights of Malta all answer to whom ? Rome.. Funny how Romes inquisitions always use the same torture techniques, all for the same reasons, oil, dope, the death of heretics, and Jerusalem which is still their number one lust..
  • zazzman
    Sounds like they were doing their job, good on them. War is nasty business and should be done as such. Its the only way to win, kill them all, scortched earth policy is what works.
  • maryb94118
    This really makes me sick. I feel ashamed to be from the same country as George Bush. He is more evil than Hitler.
  • NadePaulKuciGravMcKi
    Our very own shadow government.
    Erik Prince Blackwater Xe "enforcement"
  • btraven
    may I tell you a secret ?

    enduring freedom


    is nothin but a camouflage of

    ending 'ur freedom
  • NadePaulKuciGravMcKi
    yep.
    all is the opposite of the propaganda words...
  • Max_1
    Dear dosnaps,
    STFU!

    So, TORTURE is a good thing?

    You defend it as if it is expected and righteous.

    As if it is MORAL.

    WHERE THE F is YOUR MORASS?

    There are Laws, International AND Domestic that make this treatment punishable up to a death sentences.

    Oh, I get it...
    ... It's not illegal to torture when the USA is involved?

    EXCEPTIONALISM at it's finest.

    YOU are an example of such Hubris and ignorance for history and the Law.
    No wonder this Nation is in the crapper.

    .
  • Max_1
    Dear josh222,
    I know it is difficult for you to believe the UK ambassador to Uzbekistan...
    ... So enlighten us as to how he's incorrect and you're not, please.

    .
  • Nice to see someone with the courage of his convictions.
  • josh222
    where's the proof besides what a few people say happened?? gullable!
  • namerw
    im pretty sure this story is bullshit

    anytime you read an article that is meant to be true, with this many spelling errors, you can be pretty sure it was written by a very uneducated person
  • Yankiout
    Isn´t this the history of humans? Is Obama a democrat? Two political parties with the same ideology is called dictatorship.
  • prstjr
    I don't agree with the articles premis that the war isn't about forced democratization. As far as torture, there are no shortage of reports of it occuring at Bagram air base.
  • fghfghfdgh
  • Another incredible admission, what has happened to our country?!!
  • amerikagulag
    With Bugsy Panetta at the helm calling for legalized death squads, we can hardly expect the CIA to reflect a law abiding organization. Heck the CIA CREATED Al Qaeda.
  • dosnaps
    Guys, guys... relax. Stop this knee jerk self flagellation.

    If it was not for the CIA mandating the broken bottle rapes then it would be someone else. After all what is the cost of a few boiled children when compared to the wealth and happiness it brings to countless American and British citizens.

    Lets not forget... outside your cubicles and classrooms its still a jungle out there. When you fault your own well educated citizens for turning a blind eye to the problem, think of the kind of savages who inhabit these barbaric countries - ignorant, illiterate, rabid. A mild bottle rape here for your 2 year old is a part of the daily grind here.

    There have been countless other incidents - the Union Carbide CEO who killed thousands of poor people in India is enjoying his gold in upstate new york. Compared to that its just a fraction of butts that got glass shards in them.

    Dont worry... the world belongs to the smart, intelligent, strong, and thick skinned people who manage to not get born poor and barbaric. And it will always be like that. You cannot ask a lion not to kill little rabbits.

    Jai Hind!
  • Interesting article.
  • jason97797
    i agee with the person above me..really good comments
  • nathan_aschbacher
    I mapped the highway path of the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline, and overlaid information about troop deployments from the ISAF, and it's a little difficult to conclude as Ambassador Murray does.

    I've posted the Google Earth map and my commentary on it here: http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=s...
  • nathan_aschbacher
    Also, as near as I can tell that particular pipeline bears almost no significance to major Western economies directly, and it's construction isn't being funded by them either; unless one assumes the Asia Development Bank to be a proxy of the U.S. and Western Europe.
  • chasenround
    Just wondering why none of the voices, while asserting that there is not any strategic reason for the US to be involved in Afghanistan, don't ever insert this natural resource (gas) as THE motivating reason?
    It can be simply stated (and SHOULD BE first off)....... instead of leaving people to make determinations as to utter incompetence (or worse) in the motivations of those calling for continued military presence there.
    It is important to lay out the entire situation for public discussion........and it is why we never seem to have any 'real' back and forth about actions we are involved in.......never allowing it to be spoken right up front (ie....Our country feels compelled to engage in murder and theft in order to preserve the style of living we now enjoy: ----DO YOU AGREE THAT SUCH METHODS ARE REGRETFULLY CONSCIONABLE OR......DO YOU FEEL WE WILL HAVE TO MAKE CERTAIN LIFE-STYLE CONCESSIONS IN ORDER TO AFFORD THE COST OF OTHER PEOPLE'S RESOURCES WHILE MAINTAINING OUR OWN HUMANITY?)
    A very simple, kitchen table dialogue that everyone could AND SHOULD be required to weigh in on. And because we never boil decisions down to ideas that every household can relate to-- we encourage the continuation of a society that does not even aspire to a democratic way of governance. Cause and effect are unavoidable facts of life.
    At the same time I realize that we Americans are happily living in our own bubble of plausible deniability.
    Our system so constructed that we defer such decisions to a whole class of people in our society for the purpose of not having to deal with it ourselves.
    I don't have to add what a wrong decision that is (in so many ways)...........and how it is made obvious as we witness the complete interconnected-collapse of it ALL.

    .


    .
  • tomjoad11
    Put your head under the table and close your eyes. Maybe the atom bomb won't explode this time.

    Remember the atom bomb drills in school? In the early 60's?
  • tshadow
    So many accusations, so little evidence or fact.

    Is this anything like the Obama Administration idolizing Mao Tse-Tung - a mass murderer of millions?
  • Max_1
    What?
    Your Newt thinks America should be attacked AGAIN!
    Some Patriot he is, no?
    And all you got is Mao?
    STFU!
  • glenn_uk
    See Craig Murray's blog:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk
  • turo62
    Boiling people, sticking broken bottles up their rectums, torturing their children in front of them. hmmmmmmmm. If we accept this what pray tell separates us from the likes of Germay's Gestapo Stalins torturing etc. I guess it's ok now to brutally torture some people some of the time. Just as long as we label them possible terrorists. Has this now become boring conversation around the water cooler? If this is not brought to clear light of day and discussed openly on CBS NBC ABC; and if Obama is not hounded with questions about this by the leading news anchors;. If this is swept under the rug, you can give a big slow wet French kiss goodbye to our America. We have formally become a thug nation with no morals. Warning: if you don't speak out and voice your outrage about this behavior, your technically complicit in these brutal acts.
  • Max_1
    We have become the enemy we seek to destroy!
  • Mr. Neutron
    This stuff has always been going on in the American Empire, nothing new here.

    The trick is to do damage control when the few people leak out what is going on to maintain the AWOL (American Way of Life) - the nice suburbs, the stock market climbing, the opportunities to become a millionaire.

    Watch for this story on your TV - it will disappear without a trace. Americans don't WANT to know. And if they are ever forced to acknowledge it for 2 seconds, its: a) a few bad apples b) necessary because our "enemies" (communist villagers, Nazis, Soviets, Spaniards, Phillipinos, Japs, insurgents, non-combatants, terrorists, Nicaraguans) are "much worse".

    Repeat.
  • he must pay for his horrific crimes against humanity
    children seeing there family tortured raped
    what kind of man are you obama
    you are a disgrace to your country and community
    what if it was your family ?
    martin lutha king had a dream
    but instead of full filling that dream you have disgraced a great man
    who died for equal rights
    shame on you
  • Uzbekistan ... that's one of the usa's allies, right? which - upyourbumstan did the soviet's finest di-di-mao afghanistan from?
  • legalies76
    Yeah Obama...you are good with this?
  • H.P. Loathecraft
    From EurasiaNet, on Sting’s visit with the daughter of Uzbek dictator Islam Karimov, whose regime killed one prisoner by immersion in boiling water:

    Tickets to see British singer Sting perform in Tashkent will cost between $1,000 and $2,000 dollars, organizers say. The former Police front man will play at the Alisher Navoi Theater on October 18 as part of Art Week Style, a fashion and art event masterminded by Gulnara Karimova, President Islam Karimov’s daughter. Even the cheapest ticket will cost more than 45 times the average monthly salary in Uzbekistan, the report notes. Previous entertainers at Karimova’s showcase include Rod Stewart and Julio Iglesias.

    http://harpers.org/archive/2009/11/hbc-90006016
  • Freedom's Toast
    Stink playing in Uzbekistan?

    Hilarious! Whaddaya wanna bet he has the temerity to sing about "If the Russians Love Their Children,Too"?

    Lamest of the lame.
  • femtobeam
    Asian backed natural gas pipelines, for the profit of giant subcontractors, speaks more of the New World Order than of politics. It is clear that their influence over World politics is dominant, but what is the excuse for torturing people? There is no reason for it and there is no explanation for this demonic behavior, except mind control.

    This is not the first atrocity over an oil pipeline which benefits Bechtel and other subcontractors the most. Rumsfeldt was in Iraq years before the Gulf War negotiating with a reluctant Saddam Hussein for a pipeline on behalf of Bechtel. Both Rumsfeldt and Cheney were involved in business with Bechtel and they were forced upon GWBush in exchage for support of him as a Presidential candidate.

    Rev. Moon, who grew up in North Korea where these indoctrination techniques and technologies for mind control were first used, is not what he appears to be and the abilities and reach of communications technologies used for mind control are not being discussed.

    What else could it be? Americans are not raised to behave like that, they have to be taught and directed to do so.

    The point is... it is bad for the US and can turn the World and US citizens against the US Government, so why did they do it?

    The pipeline was Chinese funded and they forced Russia to sell their natural gas to them in the trillions of cubic feet. Behind the veil of dark and sickening secrecy lurks a demonic Chinese agenda, well honed on organ harvesting of their own people.

    In the long run, only a divided West will secure a victory in a World War III with the East and there is clearly a direction evolving with that here. We in the US are just as stunned by this as anyone and we all know it is not normal.

    It should be pointed out, however, that torture is not new to the UK as evidenced by the missing servicemen from Porton Down.

    Uzbekistan needs restoration and caring now from the whole world as a forsaken place and should be declared an International Disaster Area. Where were the Red Cross?
  • johnnybgud
    The United States is now in the open and on the same evil plain as the Nazis. In fact, though many claim our economy is socialistic we are actually living under Fascism. Economic aid is being funneled to big corporations while the people on main street are left in the cold. People are coming to this conclusion together and all the rascist and jingoist propaganda cannot wash the bloody lies and shame from the peoples' conscience. Those responsible for these crimes against humanity must be brought to justice. Obama is not the solution, but part of perpetuating the problem as shown by his continuation of Bush's horrific policies. People are waking up and it is not a partisan political game any more.
  • rafflaw
    This is an amazing story from someone who was in the know at the time this torture was going on. When will the Obama administration prosecute the Bush people who authorized the torture? Cheney needs to do the Perp Walk.
  • ndb29401
    God Almighty
  • fatsanta
    I don't think revealing torture pics will accomplish anything. Exposing them to the media will only cause unnecessary protests and such. Obama needs to start by admitting to have known about this.. process.. and apologize to Americans for covering it up. The US needs to set an example for this humanitarian effort to be successful. If the US doesn't, no one else is going to act. Damn it. man up and stop hiding behind shadows. Truth will get through soon and that's gonna be terrifying to watch.
  • Freedom'sToast
    "unnecessary protests and such"

    You mean like unnecessary democracy and freedom of speech? Or just unnecessary exercise of constitutionally protected forms of expression?
    I think it's kind of all-or-nothing, in terms of protecting those freedoms and liberties which are guaranteed, currently, on paper only.
  • reuterspiel
    Seems like people are starting to speak up...what will it take for the people of the U.S. to overthrow their government? The illusion of democracy and freedom is slowly crumbling.
  • nostrafarious
    ALL of our politicians should be given the same (or worse) treatment and then see what they think. Our country is despicable beyond words. "Great Country" Ha!
  • Freedom'sToast
    Evidently, a solid anti-CIA post here at RS has a slim chance of appearing.
    Not the first time, either. Just an observation. Keep up the good work, RS.
  • Freedom's Toast
    Never mind. It just took two days for it to come up.
  • rts111
    12 trillion dollars worth of natural gas. How many billionaire legacies can they create with this baby, eh. At least every Bohemian Grover I bet.
  • Disenfranchised
    Raped with broken bottles and boiled alive? Holy shit!!!!!!!!

    Is this the type of crap we do to get people to admit to crimes like , oh I dunno, attacking America with planes and stuff??

    Lemme see, you threaten to rape my wife and daughter with various objects in front of me, or you tell me to sign a paper saying that I planned to shoot the President, they go free and I do time in a prison till everyone forgets my name and I get let out in 6 years. .... hmmm lemme see here.

    I'll confess to being Leonardo DaVinci if you want.

    The disgusting thing is, Obama KNOWS this shit is going on. So is it just a Bush Era relic, or is it going to continue?

    Bottles and boiling? If that is true, they deserve to die. No man should be allowed to breathe after pulling that shit in the name of 'security'.
  • A very simplistic response on your part.

    Example: JFK was hated by the military and intel crowd for
    1. not going along with Bay of Pigs
    2. not bombing Cuba
    3. declaring in his American University speech a unilateral suspension of atmospheric testing of (thermo)nukes, without even discussing it with the brass first
    4. setting in motion plans to pull out of Vietnam
    5. printing money without the Fed in the middle

    They blew his head off. So he failed, right?

    The only power big enough to do that job is US, and millions more.

    WE WHO KNOW are responsible, because if the whole country knew, things would change.
  • Mr. Neutron
    Just arrived on the planet, have you ?

    How do you think the U.S. remains the wealthiest country with just 5% of the planet's population, and most of them dumbasses ?

    Google Native American genocide, and slavery, and the Monroe doctrine, and the Carter doctrine, for a day #1 start...

    You sound like Anthony Jr. finally figuring out his father Tony is in the Mafia.
  • kayttt2000
    A Rothschild/ CIA Mk Ultra Victim under Protective Custody
    Under Protection because of the CIA in the United States of America..

    I said the CIA's Modus Operandi was RAPE...and more RAPE..

    Wait till Americans find out how the CIA is operating in the USA!
  • marxymcliberalson
    "Wait till Americans find out how the CIA is operating in the USA!"

    HAHAHAHhohohohoheeheheeheheheehAHAHAHAH oh thats funny, what makes you think any AMerican will ehar about this or care, 10% of us will think this is a positive story for the god's sake!
  • Guest
    There were horror stories coming out about this a couple years ago. If it got to citizens ears, it got to the president's ears. Bush certainly knew and so does Obama. Why do we have such people representing us in government and allowing such inhuman atrocities and those psychopaths within government arranging for such abominable tortures? It is sickening beyond comprehension.
  • mick
    America has become a cancer ,you had power with no ethics .Now prepare to lose that power.
  • marxymcliberalson
    Some of us do realize this and are trying our best to change her. Say what you will about the USA, we deserve a heaping share of blame on all kinds of counts over our existence, however one thing we did have was a perceived moral authority. No matter what criticisms you levelled at us we were a country who championed human rights and condemned human abuses, well, publicly, in rhetoric, if not technically in practice. But now Bush and Cheney and a radical Right Wing have convinced a large part of our populace that some torture is ok in some cases. This just pulls the entire table out from under the house of cards that used to be our moral authority. Don't take too much satisfaction in our decline, if nothing else we used to represent a goal, an achievement, a symbol of Freedom and Liberty.
  • ManOfTheNorth
    If that behaviour is even possible within your definition of "Freedom" and "Liberty", I'd prefer a benevolent dictatorship to it.

    What is needed here is a set of morals that rise above issues of governance. It isn't happening, folks, and unless it does - these days there is so much raw power available to the human race that the likely result is our own extinction.

    Worse yet, an evolution into the nasty minds we see at play today in the fields of commerce that dictate the playgrounds of our children - the fields of war.
  • If enough of us become aware, it can still be saved. But "enough" is a big number.

    Let's get busy, we who know. All it takes is enough people who know, essentially, the truth of these two YouTube vids. This may be the most compact piece of truth ever put in such a small space. It's all there — UNOCAL, Karzai, rendition, CIA planes, photos of boiled children. I heard this account on Alex Jones three or four years ago, but this video is more effective than that audio was, although the tale is the same.

    If the American public doesn't learn these things, we WE you and I are complicit along with the British Foreign Office. Let's run with this one.
  • mick
    "Don't take too much satisfaction in our decline" ,I take NO satisfaction in your decline .It sickens me as the "free world" like it or not is modeled on America.I'm Australian and I live in New Zealand (both countries that have looked up to the US).But watch the videos on this link and tell me what you think of the Decline of the USA.

    http://canadiansforpalestine.ning.com/profiles/...
  • donofcali
    "Bush and Cheney and a radical Right Wing have convinced a large part of our populace that some torture is ok in some cases."

    This is why Obama needs to allow the American people to see those torture pictures. Very few republicons believe that their leaders allowed serious torture to happen. These people need to see the pictures of the CIA or contractors raping women, torturing children, and committing all the other sickenning things that they did. The pictures of the atrocities must be put directly in front of their collective faces.
  • H.P. Loathecraft
    Unfortunately, evangelicals as a group tend to be more accepting of torture than the general population.
  • greg789
    The sad part is it does not even take broken bottles to get a confession. A little rope and a few hours in a "stress position" will do it. One of our Vietnam era pilots said that within minutes he was in such pain that he would have tossed his son into a furnace to make it stop. We admitted to using the "stress positions" on these people as if it were minor inconvenience.
  • In addition, stress positions have a powerful psychological advantage, in that you are torturing yourself. This is scientific mind control, the bitter fruit of our poisonous psychiatry profession, including what it gleaned from the Nazis in PROJECT PAPERCLIP.
  • miggy
    They are terrorists but they are terrorists that are hired by the corporations that own our government.
    So they are above the law just like anyone in public office that might do anything illegally. For example, break Geneva Conventions by acts of aggression, approve and demand torture, hold U.S. citizens without trial indefinitely, wire tapping an entire nation of innocent citizens.
    Fascism creep is picking up tempo and the sound boots are not waking the soon to be victims.
    Just wait when the corporations turn their vengeance and terrorists on the U.S. citizen. The police force of old will look like kindergarten teachers compared to the beyond the law violence that will be turned on all of us.
    The sooner we get in the streets and fight this fascism creep the less likely we will see our country fall into darkness.
    Please we need to open our eyes and look plainly at what we have become and stand against this these anti-democratic forces.
    We need to from a new government for this one does not serve the people. DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE THE PROBLEM. THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN AND CORRUPT TO THE CORE.
    We need stop this machine! We need a national strike! We need our government to fear it's citizens. That is what a democracy feels like. Tyranny is what we have now..WE FEAR OUR GOVERNMENT.
    None of those clowns in Washington deserve our courtesy. Forgive me but we should all be interrupting speeches of these liars. Obama defends tortures while continues the slaughter of innocents and has not stopped the wire tapping or repealed the Military Commissions Act of Patriot I & II. I have no respect for any man that holds the power he holds and does not fight against such egregious violations of our Constitution and basic human rights.
    So interrupt, get in their faces. They are just messenger boys running errands and they are not running them for you because the store was bought and is now under corporate rule.
    You must stand together all as citizens not as factions but as one. I think we can all, ALL agree that this government does not represent the people but oppresses them. That one issue is the issue that should hold us together. Do not let any other issue break apart the uniting idea. We can do nothing as a people until we get our Democracy in the hands of EVERY citizen in this.
    Now is the time.
  • dennycrane
    These dirty bastards probably charged them "deposits" on the broken bottles. Seriously, when are the ones that orchestrated this shit going to get their day in court? In the mean time, Clinton and bush are going to stage a "friendly" debate just for the hell of it. Storm the fucking building and hall him to the Hague.
  • Freedom'sToast
    Amen. While we're at it, it's high time we took care of our own terrorists, the CIA. Never was there an organization more inimical to the interests of freedom and liberty, the core values of our founding documents; our raison d'etre.
    Our CIA is seemingly about as bound by morality and law as Hitler's SS. These people are not protecting us, they endanger our very way of life. They have single-handedly (as an organization) earned us generations of enemies worldwide.

    It has been said that "[t]hey hate us for our freedoms." Horsefeathers! "They" hate us for denying them freedom and self-determination. Yet the brainwashing of America continues unabated.

    The CIA stands in the way of civil society and the rule of law more so than does any criminal gang on the planet. They should be drowned in the oil they seek to steal. Or, more practically, the organization should be disbanded forthwith, and its director tried and hanged. If trickle-down economics is laudable, so certainly should be top-down responsibility.

    There's nothing weak about admitting we're wrong. Let's just back up and try a governed intelligence service, one which is actually accountable to law and humanity; one closely monitored and kept in check by the same laws as apply to citizens.

    Mr. Obama, opportunity for respectability dwindles. A church-going man, perhaps the time for reflection is nigh, as respects "do[ing] unto others".
  • donofcali
    "I'm talking of people having their children tortured in front of them until they sign a confession. I'm talking of people being boiled alive. And the intelligence from these torture sessions was being received by the CIA, and was being passed on."

    So Obama: You're going to continue covering up for these criminals instead of allowing investigations to take place? That makes you an accomplice to raping children doesn't it?
  • rxgary
    if there were a real need to wage a war against terror. theres not, by the way. the simplest and most economical way to win it would be by buying every sane adult over 16 years of age a handgun and a course in self defense and gun safety. the cost of this would be less than the 55 billion dollars apportioned to the useless department of homeland security this year alone. not to mention the 100's of billions wasted previously on this totally useless albatross.

    if every adult american were armed , there would still be crimes , especially at first, but after a short while who would be stupid enough to try and steal anymore when they know 225 million armed americans are watching them.
  • H.P. Loathecraft
    Think he has any choice whatsoever? Think JFK
  • I see the old grey head of Ray McGovern at the head table, whose interview with Brad Friedman expands on exactly your comment. Rather than rehash that story, take a look at this post on an earlier CIA related article (includes links to the audio and transcript of the McGovern interview).

    That's not to say Obama is not responsible. But it says that WE, we who know these things, are equally responsible, and in our numbers are better able to do the great work of rooting out the cancer than he is.

    Put another way, generals don't win wars without armies. Send a general out with a rifle and no troops, and what do you expect him to do against the armies of crime?

    It's WE who must act, and videos like these are our greatest weapon, because our NUMBERS are our only hope.
  • miggy
    This is all about bankers wanting to do the same thing to the entire planet that they’re already doing to the US, that is, forcing the people into monetary slavery by way of controlling the currency.
    The argument in support of the Federal Reserve System (which is not ‘federal,’ it is owned by private parties, and there is no ‘reserve’) was that it would *prevent* recessions/depressions, although since it’s passage in 1913 has already allowed numerous recessions and depressions.
    ” In the Seventeenth Century, the moneylenders and the aristocracy made a pact. If the king would make paper currency a liability of the state, the moneylenders would print as much as he liked! Thus the Banks of England, France and the Reichsbank came into being but they were all private corporations and remain so today.
    According to this nefarious pact, the moneylenders got to charge interest on assets they created out of thin air. The aristocracy all took shares in the central banks plus they got to finance a burgeoning government and to wage costly wars.
    This piece of chicanery is at the heart what plagues humanity.
    The bankers have a vested interest in the state (i.e. the people) incurring as much debt as possible. They are behind the Marxist, socialist and liberal movements which call for big government and social spending. They are behind the catastrophic wars of the last century. The Warburgs financed the Bolshevik Revolution. The Bank of England financed the rise of Hitler. Prescott Bush (W’s grandfather) was head of Brown Brothers Harriman, which financed the construction of the Nazi war machine.”


    See
    http://www.savethemales.ca/260602.html
    Bush Family’s Partnership with Killers of Americans: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09...

    (Remember how the US shipped weapons and $2B in cash to Iraq and it was promptly lost? We can’t have a war against enemies if they’re insufficiently armed.)
  • rxgary
    rico laws should be used against fed reserve bankers and their board members.

    all us problems would be solved with this one process
  • airjackie
    This information was released before Bush left office. Now I wish President Obama the best but this conduct will be done to Americans in the future as they say do unto others as you'd have others do unto you. Even the corrupt election in Afghanistan was defended by the two corrupt election in the US as 2000 and 2004.
  • You're quite right, and Obama needs to be loudly decried for defending Karzai, all the while remembering his very limited power to change things WITHOUT MASSIVE GROUNDSWELL FROM US AND MILLIONS MORE.

    Let's get busy and make sure every living soul sees these two videos, or a nearly as possible.

    We have no excuses.
  • C3PO
    It is evident there is no Al-Qaeda other than the the Al-Qaeda created by torturing patsies into confessing they are Al-Qaeda and the Al-Qaeda Agent provocateurs that work with the world's alphabet soup agencies to frame people for terror acts that the alphabet soup agencies themselves have masterminded.
  • rxgary
    theres plenty of al-CIA-duhs, they all work for #41 ghwbush
  • Bush 41 is near the top, and was there in Dallas, too.
  • buckqjohnson
    Bingo!!!! I've known for a few years now about the Uzbecks using torture (even on their own people) to get confessions real or not. Even to use it just to keep people in line. You have to remember before 9/11 Afghanistan taliban ambassador came to the US to discuss having a pipeline through the country for the same reason. Then 9/11 happened.
  • kayttt2000
    Me to,

    I know how they did UBecksstand,,.Becks Stand(slang for market),,and the broken bottles,,
    I'm still working on the" boiling them alive"..

    There was a sign we had in our Stand,,
    "Custard's last Stand"
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