US House to debate Ron Paul’s ‘Audit the Fed’ bill
Published: June 11, 2009
Updated 8 months ago
After months of activism and lobbying by Congressman Ron Paul’s supporters, House Resolution 1207, the Federal Reserve Transparency Act, will move out of committee to be debated by the full House of Representatives.
In a show of cross-party unity, Ohio Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich became the bill’s 218th co-sponsor, pushing it over the threshold for debate in Congress.
The bill, which achieved its 222nd co-sponsorship on Thursday, has been in consideration by the House Financial Services Committee since Feb. 26.
Congressman Kucinich, along with Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-NY), announced Tuesday that the House Financial Services Committee will subpoena the Federal Reserve to ascertain the details of the Fed’s agreements with Bank of America in the institution’s acquisition of Merrill Lynch.
“The full committee and Domestic Policy Subcommittee, under the leadership of Chairman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), have been investigating the circumstances surrounding the federal government’s bailout of the Bank of America-Merrill Lynch transaction,” Kucinich’s office noted in a Tuesday release. “Specific documents subpoenaed include emails, notes of conversations and other documents.”
While the bill enjoys some Democratic supporters, the vast majority of H.R. 1207 co-sponsors are Republican.
“The tremendous grass-roots and bipartisan support in Congress for HR 1207 is an indicator of how mainstream America is fed up with Fed secrecy,” said Congressman Paul in a Thursday media advisory. “I look forward to this issue receiving greater public exposure.”
Though the move from committee to full House is sure to hearten supporters, the Senate also has pending before it a bill which would have originally given Congress greater oversight of the Federal Reserve. But in its present form, notes Huffington Post writer Ryan Grim, a recent, ever-so-slight modification essentially ‘neutered’ the bill.
“Thanks to an overlooked document posted on the website of Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa, the top ranking Republican on the Finance Committee, voters can virtually watch the water being dumped into the brew that Grassley had hoped to force the Fed to drink,” he wrote.
“On page five of Grassley’s amendment, he intends to give the Comptroller General of the Government Accountability Office power to audit “any action taken by the Board under…the third undesignated paragraph of section 13 of the Federal Reserve Act” — which would be almost everything that it has done on an emergency basis to address the financial crisis, encompassing its massive expansion of opaque buying and lending.”
Grim adds: “Handwritten into the margins, however, is the amendment that watered it down: ‘with respect to a single and specific partnership or corporation.’ With that qualification, the Senate severely limited the scope of the oversight.”
Congressman Paul, in defense of his proposal to audit the bank which controls America’s currency, argues not just for transparency. He wants to close it down.
“Detractors have [...] argued that the Fed must remain immune from the political process, and that more congressional oversight would distort their very important decisions,” Paul wrote in an editorial titled, ‘Audit the Fed, Then End It!’ “On the contrary, the Federal Reserve is already heavily entrenched in the political process, as the Fed chairman is a political appointee. High-level officials routinely make the rounds between positions at the Fed, member banks, Treasury and back again, taking care of friends and each other along the way.”
He continued: “As far as the foolishness of placing complex monetary policy decisions in the hands of politicians – I couldn’t agree more. No politician or central banker, no matter how brilliant, is smart enough to know more than the market itself. The failure of central economic planning has been witnessed over and over. It is frankly beyond me why we ever agreed to try it again.
“To understand how unwise it is to have the Federal Reserve, one must first understand the magnitude of the privileges they have. They have been given the power to create money, by the trillions, and to give it to their friends, under any terms they wish, with little or no meaningful oversight or accountability. Thus the loudest arguments against greater transparency are likely to come from those friends, and understandably so.”
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This had BETTER be interesting.
This is one of the smartest bills I’ve ever read about. It’s smart because it can be so easily argued and supported. There shouldn’t be anything wrong with transparency, should there? And if there is, then what, exactly is it? The only strength behind this bill is the power of knowledge and the quest for it. How simple can this be? If we find that we’re pulling the covers off the mattress of plutocracy, then what are we to think?
This bill has the potential to be revolutionary.
eyeballkid
‘There shouldn’t be anything wrong with transparency, should there?’
Certainly not, although the senate is waging a freakin’ war over just that this week.
Special thanks to the two most unpatriotic and self-serving bastards in the United States government, John McCain BFFs, Lieberman and Graham. Oh, and Obama on the speakerphone, natch.
See:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/06/11/accountability/index.html
abraham
‘This had BETTER be interesting.’
You do know of that Chinese curse, don’t you?
‘May you live in interesting times’.
This bill has been watered down….sabbotaged, by your own elected officials. And when it goes nowhere…….blame them, because the sooner the US rids itself of the cancerous Federal Reserve, the quicker the country will heal. It steals from everyone.
The time has come to dissolve the empire to save the republic,
If the FED was audited, the first time publicly since it’s inception in 1913, it would be a truly historic event with massive consequences. Possibly the greatest thing to ever happen in terms of forcing REAL change. All these banksters are so evil and corrupt and would finally be exposed.
The question though is how the MSM will try and spin it, so watch out for that.
“Audit the Fed, then end it.”
It makes no sense for a private corporation to run our economic system WITHOUT any oversight and means of being audited. How could this have gone on since 1913 without the oversight?
Ron Paul has been introducing this same bill ever since he became a congressman and this is the first time it has received any traction. People are finally waking up and Ron Paul has played a huge role in making this a major issue.
The sad truth is, this is way overdue and it may be too late to save the dollar.
Kind of sucks that it took the “markets” destroying the entire economy before anyone even started to care.
“Don’t it always seem to go
that you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone”
‘While the bill enjoys some Democratic supporters, the vast majority of H.R. 1207 co-sponsors are Republican.’
One would expect the blue swine dems to back the plutocrats. How disgusting it is that most of those dems who present themselves as progressives also carry the water for the plutocrats. Money talks.
@savantster
“you’ll also note that Paul wants not only to disband the Fed, but wants the “market” to figure out currency? For a Constitutionalists, that sure seems odd.”
“Audit the Fed, shut them down, then have Congress coin and print money, like the Constitution dictates.”
I think you answered you own question. Constitutional “lawful” money is made from Gold and Silver which is a market based commodity. The Founders new that, hence the Coinage Act of 1792.
It sounds like you want the government to “have the biggest stick.” Why not the people? The people have the power in a free market.
Please also realize we have not had a free market for over 100 years. I keep reading posts of people saying “the free market didn’t work for Reagan, etc.” That wasn’t the free market. It was a managed corporatist market that protected corporations, not people.
How did this come into being? Regulations that favored the most successful lobby group. Follow the money trail.
“It sounds like you want the government to “have the biggest stick.” Why not the people? The people have the power in a free market.”
No, people as individuals can do nothing against organizations.. mega-corps have billions of dollars, people have thousands (if they are lucky)..
and “we” ARE the government (when it’s working like it’s supposed to).
To suggest people have power in a “free market” is to ignore reality, concede that abusing people is “ok”, and encourage bad behavior. Civilized people should be beyond such things, and that’s what Government (and laws) are all about.. forcing those that would chose NOT to be civilized to behave or suffer so that decent people can live their lives unmolested by the minority.
You’ll also note that “following the money” shows where the “free market” principle got us.. those with the money in mostly NON-regulated times keep buying up politicians and making rules that protect them over us.. the free market leads to where we are now, but potentially MUCH worse since in a “free market”, we’d also have massive monopolies and widespread abuses of the public.
“To suggest people have power in a “free market” is to ignore reality, concede that abusing people is “ok”, and encourage bad behavior.”
You are possibly right. In a “free-market” (whatever you define that as) perhaps the abuse of people is okay.
However, in a free-market the people do have the power because the are free to make their own choices and the government doesn’t get involved in the interactions of consumers and producers. The only time it would get involved is if there is fraud and or abuse.
Free-market capitalism is a politico-economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and in which the powers of the state are limited to the protection of the individual’s rights against the initiation of physical force. This protection applies to the initiation of physical force by other private individuals, by foreign governments, and, most importantly, by the individual’s own government.
The “free market”, which you blame for our ills, is government regulators intervening with consumers and producers benefiting the corporations and those politicians that play their game.
“Civilized people should be beyond such things, and that’s what Government (and laws) are all about.. forcing those that would chose NOT to be civilized to behave or suffer so that decent people can live their lives unmolested by the minority.”
What about the minority (the individual) being molested by the majority as we have today in our country?
That’s the cost of a society. If you don’t want to live under the umbrella of a society, leave. Quite simple.
and people do not have power individually, that’s why we formed societies in the first place. More gets done, life is better, the individual benefits from the collective efficiencies derived from cooperative practices.
people need to be protected against a lot more than “physical force”.. not being able to eat seems a pretty serious infringement, and if you don’t bend to the will of those “running the market”, you are left to die. Doesn’t seem like the individual has much power there. And what of those that can’t care for themselves? let them die in the street? how civilized and advanced..
and as for gold/silver standard.. those have “value” based on scarcity. Those who control the gold and silver mines have more wealth than everyone else, which makes no sense either.
the scarcity also restricts growth, making into the basis of ALL commerce strains it much faster. It was fine at the time, but there are simply too many people alive for it to work again.
The biggest problem is that people want to adhere to the “ancient times” when scarcity dictated existence. We don’t have that scarcity today.. we can move goods around the planet in days, and if we leveraged all of our technology, would could move goods around the planet in hours.
The days of “money” need to end, we need to move forward into the future.. that requires _real_ education, tolerance, and human decency.. we need to move into the Resource Based Economy world (or suffer massive global misery).
www [dot] thevenusproject [dot] com
“the scarcity also restricts growth, making into the basis of ALL commerce strains it much faster. It was fine at the time, but there are simply too many people alive for it to work again.”
Nonsense. It restricts government from printing money at a whim and debasing the currency, benefiting those who get the money first before it enters circulation, and ripping off Joe Six pack who gets the money last.
Money is simply a medium of exchange and creating more of it only makes it less valuable and does nothing for “growth.”
The days of money need to end? Geez. Yes, I hate having a very granular division of labor that is only possible with an economic system using money. I wish I had to toil in the field all day so I could go toil in the market all day looking for someone who has what I want and vice versa.
The problem is money being controlled by a quasi-government agency. There should be no restrictions on what people want to use as money.
clearly you didn’t go to the site provided, you don’t have a clue as to what I’m suggesting or how things would work in such a situation. But, by all means, keep deriding an idea that you haven’t bothered to learn about.
One caveat on growth and money. Unsustainable growth (the boom) is the only type of growth you will get with a fractional reserve system and/or fiat currency. Then the bust kicks in and everyone blames “capitalism” or “free-markets”. lolz
“I wish I had to toil in the field all day so I could go toil in the market all day looking for someone who has what I want and vice versa.”
Um, there is no need for anyone to toil in the field all day, we have machines that do that and can do MUCH more of it if we wanted to design and build them.
and I don’t know about you, but I buy stuff from all over the world at the push of a button.. Technology is a wonderful thing.
Why is it that most people think technology (applied knowledge of science) would cease to exist if money (currently some arbitrary measure of wealth) went away?
The only state-owned bank in the US is the Bank of North Dakota. Founded in 1919 by the efforts of Swedish farmers as a defense against undervalued grain prices imposed by Eastern bankers, the railroads, and the granaries whose object was to bankrupt the farmers and seize the land, it receives on deposit all state revenues by statute, can make 0% loans to the state, counties and municipalities.
But it is not in conflict with private banks. Rather, it partners with them. Deposits are accepted from all quarters.
It should be mentioned that North Dakota is one of only three states currently solvent. And they do not participate with FDIC: the state is the guarantor of all accounts.
And by being a government agency, they have no proprietary claim on opaque internal workings. It is the people’s business to know how the bank’s business is transacted.
In my view, this is the ideal solution, and every state should “secede” from this national cancer known as the Fed. Let the damn thing starve!
“In my view, this is the ideal solution, and every state should “secede” from this national cancer known as the Fed. Let the damn thing starve!”
That, I 1000000 % agree with!
They’ll mess with it, debate it, water it down, change it, alter it beyond comprehension, ad nauseum until this whole country breaks down into a full scale revolution. Trying to get things done legislatively and legally with Congressional hands dipping into lobbyist tills has become a farce.
Kucinich.
Consistently making the right desicions on the right issues.
F%^&* the blue dogs. Buncha whores.
That said, I doubt anything will come of this. The folks in charge are very smart. I’m sure they have planned for every contingency.
I can’t imagine any true revelations about the fed, since the secret Machinery that runs the nation might not keep running if it is no longer secret.
The conversation became so good between savantster and libertyrebellion, that it smoked me out into joining. Savantster, socialism has failed in every case that it was tried, on every level, no matter how you format socialism, it always ends the same. Bottom line why socialism always fails: People will ALWAYS like to own stuff. And the other bottom line is that some people are always better at producing and owning stuff than others, no matter what the system. Some people have talents that others don’t, some people have different skills and abilities, all to differing degrees. EVERY attempt in history to equalize those differences have been some of the darkest chapters of human history. The nazis are socialists, always have been, even what few of them are left. Libertyrebellion, the masses are no longer capable of the independent thought, critical thinking, or sense of self required to grasp the concepts you and I can see regarding individualism, classical liberalism and egalitarianism. Most minds out here are just willing slaves unable to have even the most meager thoughts of Freedom or Liberty. Their minds are drunk on the systems narcotics of addle distractions, their arteries clogged with the heavy cholesterol’s of government cheese, their ears clogged with all the fat of over 70 years of subsidized sub-standard living. The average American is just a fat, filthy +200lbs. infant demanding that their every need be met by anyone other than themselves. Most of us are just walking alimentary canals that refuse to take responsibility for either end of the canal, demanding someone else clean up. OBL could not have come up with HALF of the horrors that the American population will soon induce upon themselves, but that is the wages of willful ignorance and the tyranny of incompetence it induces. I rarely stay in america anymore, I’ve found other places in the world far more freedom loving and productive. All like minded Americans should leave now, time for atlas to shrug. I’ve been in galts gulch for almost a year now, and have never been happier. (viviun.com, if you want to make your way here.) Don’t worry libertyrebellion, a tactical retreat to regroup is occasionally necessary. And as Douglass Mcarthur once said: “I shall return..” Besides, you don’t want to be around these clowns when their meds wear off and they realize how hungry they are. We will have creative destruction, nothing can now be done to stop it from happening, no matter how deeply these fat infants stuff their grubby sausage fingers into their fat clogged ear canals and scream “WE’RE NUMBER 1!! WE’RE NUMBER ONE1!!! U.S.A.!!! U.S.A.!!!” The more they scream with nationalist fervor, the closer they realize their day of reckoning is. Good luck my Liberty loving fellow Americans, and get out while the getting is good. To the rest of you: I hope you survive the next 10 years, and when this is over we can talk about what you learned after you finally grew up and became a functioning adult. I’m confident that is what will happen, because the only people left alive after 10 years of the coming mega-depression, will be those who pulled their craniums free of their rectums and grew up to reality.
The problem is we’re digressing into terms that aren’t being fully or properly applied. The commonly accepted synonym for “Socialism” in America is “welfare state”.. I guess I don’t understand the nuance that is supposed to be implied by “Socialism” since, as you can see, the term is batted around and abused so badly in our country, as is language in general, that we have to look at “ideas”, not “labels” (that’s my opinion.. based on things like Denmark not being a “Socialism”, but being a Constitutional Monarchy with a Parliament, and being a “welfare state”, but having the “highest level of happiness” in all nations around the world… I think the better hair to split is Socialism in a more broad context means “everyone benefits from the economic model”, or Socialism is a “welfare state”.. while the engines of monetary gain are not part of the “governmental structure”.. the two are clearly separate, but often used under one heading)
To the point, in America, our GOVERNMENT is so corrupted that it no longer looks out for the PEOPLE that vote, it looks out for the MONEYED INTERESTS.
this post of yours (rightly so) does a lot of bashing on the “public”… but that public is a product of the consumption driven economy we have in America. The corrupted government doesn’t educate the public (that’s a tenant of the right-wing.. to not fund education), the public is then easily “led”.. and the “moneyed interests” lead them down dark allies and mug them.
I in no way, shape, or form would suggest that we no longer have an elected government.. However, the current system is so broken that only the existing rich stand a chance of living well, 99% of everyone else is pretty well fucked these days. The _elected_ government is not protecting the electorate, clearly.. and the electorate these days is too ignorant to pay attention long enough to vote in those that WOULD make changes for the betterment of the nation (because the moneyed interests have completely rigged the game).
When I say Socialism, I mean “making sure everyone has food and shelter and clothing and health care”.. and making sure the gap between the “top” and “bottom” never gets “too big”.. because no one human is worth thousands of other humans… and our current “wealth gap” would suggest that certain people are worth as much as 100s of thousands of others. Just not true.. clearly the “game” has been rigged, and the result is lives destroyed, humans denigrated and abused.
If you’ve not headed over to the Venus project, you should. We’re all pretty much victims to what ever we’re taught (some can teach themselves, even from desperate backgrounds, while others just aren’t capable even under fairly stable environments).
America is slipping back into a State of Nature, and it will get ugly. Millions are suffering in America for NO GOOD REASON; billions around the planet have it much worse, and for NO GOOD REASON.
Americans are raised to be the ignorant fucks they are.. that’s by design. Pretty soon, when it all goes to hell and we’re a 3rd world nation with nothing to offer but a huge military, this country will have failed; all because everyone is afraid to share, encouraged instead to be gluttonous, wasteful pigs so the top 1% can suck up all the remaining wealth in this country before they leave it to rot in the sun.
seen2much - got the blinders on? i understand your frustration and anger but get off the couch, get a passport and have a look at what you deride. seriously, have you ever left the shores of the usa? socialism is alive and well - it is a society’s commitment to taking care of individuals who can’t take care of themselves so well. naw, the usa is so far from number one in any category from life expectancy to education to, well, anything except for military investment and corporate tax dodges.
it’s communism has and will fail when applied to anything larger than a tribe or kabutz. aristocracies fail too, often violently. the corporate aristocracy that has killed you shall fall too, and take most of you with it.
i think you are confusing cause and effect somewhat …
i do understand your anger at the overall population for being braindead and allowing their liberties, rights and privileges of citizenship to be turned over to the oligarchs of the trust fund class - the ‘haves and the have mores’. your anger at allowing themselves to be fooled into believing taking care of each other is unAmerican. i’m with you all the way on the sausage fingers and “fat clogged ears”. and yes, the coming trouble is something few are prepared to weather - and is as basic as food and water and shelter … welcome to raw
My vision is just fine, was in Europe just last week to see them turn hard right, and start rejecting socialism for the lost cause it is. Had a friends wife tell me plenty of horror stories about their lovely “free” medical system, doctors taking BEER BREAKS down to the nearby pub in the middle of surgery, people in agonizing pain waiting for WEEKS for simple procedures, ambulances going from hospital to hospital until patients die of lack of critical care… It is a specific type of socialism that has brought our nation to such dire straits, it is fascism, socialisms uglier younger brother. You see, these corporations only became as powerful as they did by getting in bed with government and INCREASING governments strangle hold on innovation and productivity. Just ask the inventors of many suppressed technologies, just look at all the people locked up for selling anything that works better than what the pharmaceutical companies are ramming down our kids throats. What is the violence that is brought to bear on anybody who tries to go against the corporatists? That’s right kiddies: THE STATE!!! guys in STATE issued tac suits, with STATE issued WEAPONS show up and shut your show down. We all, to one degree or another fell for it, the easy money “everybody gets to win” BS.. Now, on the subject of taking care of one another. I see no problem with helping those who need help, but I take GREAT umbrage when a person is helped and in exchange the helped become enslaved. The state by necessity arranges such an atrocious machine, especially in a democracy. Those who go onto the take eventually structure their lives to maximize the benefits of that take, avoiding at all costs anything that would better their situation outside of their state stipend, you see, everybody acts according to what they see as the maximization of their profit. So all they vote for are those who pay more… But HERE is where the trouble starts: The government makes nothing. The government only can spend what it has taken or been given by those who produce… AND WE PRODUCERS HAVE HAD ENOUGH!!! I will never spend another ounce of my sweat, blood, or tears EVER again on socialism of ANY kind!!! Weather it is bombs or butter, NOT ONE OUNCE OF EITHER WILL EVER BE PURCHASED AGAIN BY MY LABOR, IDEAS, OR SKILLS. You say it is in “the social contract”, well, I got a news flash for you buddy: The first rule of the social contract: THERE IS NO CONTRACT!!!! the police are only good for cleaning up the mess after the whole thing has already gone down, or tasing 72 year old grannies.. You want people to be “taken care of”, I prefer that people be allowed to take care of themselves, weather its growing pot and opening a coffee shop, or working at said coffee shop and being paid however the worker sees fair(say 2 bucks an hour plus tips and so many ounces of KB per day, or hell, scones if the barista gets down like that.) The said worker may make quite the killing if they can parlay their agreed upon compensation into even greater profit. Some small few of us truly will need help from time to time, or even for the rest of their lives. The key to that is to make sure that as many people as possible in our society are in a position to help them, and to hold people to their word. Hold the churches to their promise to help, or tax them into oblivion. Everybody else should be left alone, charity is not charity if it is forced out of somebody, then it is just plain robbery.
All people will act in what they see as their best interests at any time. what a person decides is their best interest is for them to decide, and nobody elses damned business. Of course your right to swing your arms ends at the next persons nose. Then there is the “charity” government extorts from us to make the imperial profits of our corporatist masters. Those high-precision bunker-busters, those multi-billion dollar death droppers? YOU and I paid for them, and you and I mangled all the children who have died in the corpratists imperial ambitions. Taking care of people indeed. Care like that the world can do without. How can you have liberties and rights, if you don’t have the right to self-realization and self-reliance? How can you take care of others if you cannot care for yourself? Remove the 2 by 4 from your eye before you try to remove a splinter from someone else’s eye….
“doctors taking BEER BREAKS down to the nearby pub in the middle of surgery,”
And you’ll blame single payer, but that has nothing to do with who pays the bills, now does it.
“ambulances going from hospital to hospital until patients die of lack of critical care”
Like the do in America because they don’t have insurance? Or getting dumped on the side of the road 1/2 way through a treatment once it’s discovered there is no insurance?
And I see a lot of railing against the “state”; education fixes a broken state, and the right-wing has killed education in America… Wanting to teach Intelligent Design in Science classes? seriously? .. yet, I’m sure you tend to vote “R” so you can avoid “giving my money to some dirtball welfare queen who doesn’t want to work”, right? The right-wing in American Politics has been lying and deceiving and manipulating the public for decades (my entire aware life), building this “pro-corporate” world we’re abused in.
news flash.. corporations need to be STRICTLY controlled by the public. If left to their own devices, they will kill innocents time and again for profits. Those profits flow into the hands of PEOPLE that made those bad decisions, and mostly they go UNPUNISHED for their abuses. But, by all means, keep voting for those that will poison your kids for a few more dollars.. all while deriding the general (abused) public.
And you might consider using paragraphs.. I quit reading your post early on.. if you can’t bother to post clearly, why should I waste my time straining through your drivel.
my, my you’re confrontational seen2much, aren’t you? welcome to raw, again
your entire rant - well, both of them actually - continue to mix apples and oranges. explain for me your definitions of fascism and socialism because they are nothing alike and made in america fascism is what has your panties in a twist, son.
wealth is trying to produce wealth from wealth by gaming you and the rest of the non-privileged class. the only real wealth that is ever really created is from ‘things and the labor that makes those things’ and wealth has been offshoring the means to create wealth increasingly and with impunity for 30 years - then they can convince you to blame yourself, the working class for not making anything the world wants.
“highest corporate tax rate in the world” the shills tell you - yeah, and nearly all the fortune 500 have offshore tax dodges
dell china imports to dell usa and then sells to you - that’s trade? no that’s arbitrage of labor, sucker.
and gee, where in europe did you go and hear these horror stories from the poor enslaved citizens of socialism? yes, the right is making gains mostly cuz 1) folks are politically lazy 2) some of the riche wing made in usa propaganda is gaining ground and 3) left and labor have been playing like the american democratic party and pleasing no-one with centrist policies - but it won’t last cuz centrist just pisses off everybody - obama will be a one-termer cuz of it - yes, the economy will crash cuz they didn’t try to fix it just threw more money at the casino. and yes, the riche will make gains blaming obama and the dinos for the disasters the right have made. cuz americans are by far the most ignorant nation of frightened children ever.
where was this drunk doctor and these long lines you ranted about? did you just pull that out of your butt or get it from the internetz too, son?
my national health care plan works just fine and i don’t have to wait till i’m sick to get something checked out. i pay a monthly premium based on my income - private insurance is only for extras like a loss of salary or a private room and for serious long-term illnesses some policies cover our 30% co-pay. i go to the doctor or clinic or hospital i want to, and can see as many doctors as i want to for 2nd and 3rd opinions, when i want to.
and as for self-realization, what does that mean to you? think before answering. try quieting your mind, reining in your senses, and finding your connection to your fellow man and the entire universe. now, that’s self-realization …
If I came off as confrontational hourglass, that was not my intention.. I am merely pointing out the worms in the apples AND oranges, your statements are the ones that compare apples to oranges. Fascism and socialism are twin brothers, one born only moments before the other. The fascist nazi’s ARE socialists, nazi is just a contraction of the name nationalsozialismus translated into NATIONAL SOCIALISM!!! So to say the two are not the same is a bald-faced lie and attempt to bury the true colors of socialism.
My income places me squarely into what you probably define as “the privileged class”, even though i am the son of an OTR truck driver. When I got out of the Army I had managed to scrape together 25k, and started my own business working on flight systems, the same job I did for the Army. I put aside buying nice cars, getting drunk off my azz, and chasing army base poon-tang(the way the average soldier blows his meger checks.) so i could save for my own future. Nobody gave me a DAMNED thing, I saved and earned EVERYTHING I came to have. What I take EXTREME umbrage with is the way the UPPER part of our system so miserably fails, how the goldman sachs types have basically hijacked the government, all because we the people fail to realize that what is going on at the top is just another oligarchy, lorded over what little is left of our republic.
Only a non-free market allows an oligarchy to form and keep hold of power. The oligarchs cannot stay where they are unless the table is slanted into their favor. Socialism would just replace the current oligarchs with new oligarchs, not much of a payback for so much sacrifice.
Real wealth is the ability to produce, tons of gold mean nothing while its just sitting in the ground, somebody has to dig it up, purify and mold that gold into a usable form. that takes labor, skill, and most of all, risk!! Somebody has to risk current capital on the hopes of future capital, otherwise NOTHING HAPPENS!! And then the potential wealth is never realized.
Japan and Britain. Both have shown me directly the failures of socialism in healthcare. I have family in Japan, and many friends in the U.K. around London and Manchester. Also have friends in Sweden who show me plenty things wrong with socialism when I visit them. Most swedes between the ages of 18 and 55 stay the hell out of their own country, and they will always tell you the same reason why: TO AVOID THE INSANE TAXES!!!
Self realization is the pursuit of happiness as you see fit, to the fullest extent of your own abilities and capabilities. IT IS NOT UNLIMITED!!! Notice: TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF YOUR OWN ABILITIES AND CAPABILITIES!!! Not everybody gets to win, some of us have talent and skills, MOST DO NOT!!! This “everybody should win” crap is the heart of Americas failure!!!
The world is a competitive place, and losers never win.
The reality that is descending upon us all will prove my statements. And it will do it in the most horrific fashion. Seems that is the only way the willfully stupid can learn. So be it. The most rotten of compost makes for the brightest garden, eventually.
I will not accept socialism. I will reject and fight it wherever I encounter it. the most effective way to fight socialism: Do nothing. Shrug. And pity those who need what you would have produced.
“Self realization is the pursuit of happiness as you see fit, to the fullest extent of your own abilities and capabilities. IT IS NOT UNLIMITED!!! Notice: TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF YOUR OWN ABILITIES AND CAPABILITIES!!! Not everybody gets to win, some of us have talent and skills, MOST DO NOT!!! This “everybody should win” crap is the heart of Americas failure!!!
The world is a competitive place, and losers never win.”
So, you’re saying that if someone isn’t as talented as you, you should live like a god and they should slowly rot in the street.
how “humane” of you. And I’ve got 2 bits of news for you.. 1) you’re not nearly as talented as you think you are, not in a technologically advanced society; NOTHING about you is so important that you should live like a god while others suffer immeasurably. That’s just fact. And secondly, 99% of those “top 1%ers” that make over 80% of the wealth in this country aren’t all that talented either. They aren’t paid for their “being special”, they are paid for who they know, how well they suck dick, and how eager they are to fuck over their fellow man.. if you think being a piece of shit abuser makes you “talented”, you need serious help.
“And pity those who need what you would have produced.”
another example of how big of a piece of shit you really are, and NOTHING “you” produce is critical to the existence of anyone, and anything “you” produce can be produced by some other dick tugging jerkoff. Again, you’re not that special.
Go to the venus site. You are obsolete, not needed, the world will continue on just fine without you, that’s 100% assured. “The world is a competitive place, and losers never win” is a bullshit statement, we’re not shit flinging monkeys in the trees any more. We don’t HAVE to treat each other this way, you’re taught that you should. Who ever taught you that is one sorry, sad, pathetic person.
“and started my own business working on flight systems, the same job I did for the Army.”
LMFAO.. so, PUBLIC TAX DOLLARS gave you the knowledge you needed.. but FUCK THE PUBLIC.. right?
wow.. I guess the person that taught you to be a piece of shit was you .
And, while getting paid by TAX DOLLARS and having effectively “socialized medical care”, you “saved” for your future.. LMFAO.. you’re a walking irony.
“Most swedes between the ages of 18 and 55 stay the hell out of their own country, and they will always tell you the same reason why: TO AVOID THE INSANE TAXES!!!”
I’d like to call you on that. See, you probably know “some” swedes that are pricks like you, but when the GLOBAL RATING FOLKS talk about Sweden, Denmark, Norway, New Zealand, etc. being the “best places on the planet to live” with the highest levels of “well educated citizens” and “longest life spans” of all other nations in the world, facts don’t measure up to the micro-environments you seem to travel in.
But, that’s OK.. this is America.. you’re allowed to be a selfish, self indulgent prick if you want to be.. and we’re allowed to laugh at you and shun you for being so inhumane. Keep rubbing your psychological penis and flinging shit, little monkey.. Keep thinking you’re all that speical, that you deserve that much more than everyone else, that it’s OK to let people die in the streets if they don’t bend to your will.. and once you have a breakdown and blow your own brains out (or have them blown out because you snapped and went on a killing spree in an Equal Opportunity Enforcement office), you won’t be missed.
“Self realization [actualization] is the pursuit of happiness as you see fit, to the fullest extent of your own abilities and capabilities. IT IS NOT UNLIMITED!!! Notice: TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF YOUR OWN ABILITIES AND CAPABILITIES!!! Not everybody gets to win,”
Perhaps the most profound statement you’ve made yet. Yes, we all get to persue our own happiness to the best of our abilities, but you’re advocating letting some abuse others because either “they can”, or “they have skills”.
Before someone can self actualize (or, experience life just to experience life), they have to have their basic needs met. Food, clothing, shelter. In America, the system has been rigged so badly that 60% of the population spend most of their time clawing at the resources required just to fulfill those basic needs. Clearly, this isn’t about “their skills”, and about a system that fosters the abuses.
What’s even more disgusting is that the GREED behind all of this is LEARNED and artificial. It’s part of this diseased Capitalism we have in this country.. it is needed to drive the system so the top 1% can loot us; without rampant greed (and arrogance.. dare I say narcissism?) they can’t loot us as effectively.. just like they can’t easily loot an educated public, so they have destroyed our educational systems.
No one wants to toil for others day after day. Every human has dreams and aspirations. The systems you advocate for dehumanize the workers, turn them into cogs in the wheel… why the fuck should we let that kind of system exist? WE are the one with the brains, We are the ones with the feelings, WE are the ones that “life”.. not companies. Companies are tools that should be utilized by the ENTIRE SOCIETY, not the precious few to abuse the rest.
man.. you know, if every person like you on this planet died yesterday, the world would be a MUCH better place. You contribute shit, scientists do all the work; leveraging technology is what created the world we live in today, and it can put us on a path to maximize EVERYONE’S happiniess.. but people like you want to hoard the work of others, exploit the brains of those that came before you so YOU can benefit while you shit on others. you’re the opposite of progress in every way, and things that don’t move forward end up dying out.. you’d have our species die out so you can keep getting more trinkets that you use to imply you’re a better person, all the while oblivious to the destruction you wreak. you’re the threat to the species, every bit as much as those “fat, lazy, ignorant, impulsive, hedonistic” unwashed masses you deride.