Obama may toss ‘full trials’ for alleged 9/11 plotters
Published: June 6, 2009
Updated 5 months ago
A plan under consideration by the Obama administration would permit Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detainees facing the death penalty to plead guilty without a full trial, it has been reported.
This option would principally be aimed at a group of detainees accused of planning the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, five people who have already indicated they prefer this resolution of the case, The New York Times said in a story posted late Friday on its Web site.
The terrorism-era U.S. military commission format has come under withering criticism from legal and human rights quarters, and American military prosecutions employing this structure and legal rules have for the most part been put on hold since January while the new administration considered other options.
President Barack Obama recently approved the continued use of these commissions. And the Times reported in its story that the possibility of permitting guilty pleas under some circumstances is among a series of options circulated within the administration by a special task force. The newspaper cited individuals who had been briefed on the proposal or had studied it.
Traveling in France with Obama, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said: “The president has been clear that he hopes to work with Republicans and Democrats in Congress to improve the military commissions act to ensure that we can ensure more due process and deliver what has been long in coming: swift and certain justice. To suggest that any of the decisions have been made is not accurate.”
The possible elements of legislation on tribunals and how to handle difficult Guantanamo cases are not developed enough yet to even have been presented to the president for discussion, said a senior administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the entire matter is still in the early stages.
The White House views the fresh talk in the media about the possibility of allowing detainees to enter guilty pleas, an idea presented previously by military prosecutors, as the work of lower-level players in the debate who want to gain currency for one approach, a strategy that usually has the opposite effect with Obama, this official said.
Obama already has said that he wants to close Guantanamo by January 2010, declaring it has caused the United States more harm than good and has served as a recruitment tool for the al-Qaida terrorist network.
One advantage of permitting guilty pleas by defendants in the Sept. 11 case would be that the government would not have to expose harsh interrogation techniques during full trials that would otherwise have to be carried out, the Times said.
It said the proposal to permit guilty pleas — which are not allowed in the legal framework the U.S. military uses in trials for its own personnel — would in effect permit the Sept. 11 defendants to achieve a self-proclaimed desire for martyrdom.
The theory behind the ban on such pleas in trials for U.S. military personnel is that prosecutors would have to prove their case in court against any individual facing such a serious charge.
The proposal is that Congress would take up a bill clarifying uncertainty that was built into the 2006 law that it passed authorizing the creation of the military commissions. That 2006 law left unclear the question of whether guilty pleas could be accepted in capital cases conducted via the military commission format.
These pleas under U.S. law are allowed in federal civilian courts and in the courts of most states with capital punishment statutes.
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Anything, anything, anything to avoid the inconvenient details of what actually happened on that day from being exposed to the sunlight of legal discovery.
Keep protecting the Bush criminal cabal Obama. Your plutocrat masters love you.
Exactly.
Go USA!
I can’t believe Obama is trying to couch this as allowing the detainees to get their way. Bullshit. I agree with donofcali and poopmaster.
The coverup continues under the new president.
911 was an inside job. Every day more people come to this realization.
“Change we can believe in.”
So we will allow the scientific proof of 9/11 to be plea bargained into misdemeanor status setting a precedent that would permit unbridled corporate terrorism to continue any where on the planet. How do the existing “confessions” comport with the 9/11 Commission report? Where is that corroboration laid out? Maybe we should just let them all off with a warning this time and concentrate on those awful pot smokers.
Terrorism is not the same as double parking.
What inconvenient details might come out during the trial? Hmmmm?
New Boss, Same As The Old Boss
Obama proves once again that he is an ASSHOLE!
I am calling the United States government version of 9/11 bluff, yes it is total B/S. We will soon witness whether Saudi Arabia and the United States government conspired and was lying to everyone with the fraudulent oil inventory reserves (see reference below). This is the easiest method for politicians and their corporate friends to steal the world blind. Increase your oil inventories then borrow against that new inventory that does not exist. The United States government is involved and is neck deep in this crime along with Saudi Arabia. The fact is that time is on our side tic-tock; tic-tock in less then 5 years Saudi Arabia will lose 30-40% of oil output capacity. The manifestation of this will be a constant decrease in oil output that has already been occurring. This decrease will be in a logarithmic scale function by proven historical empirical evidence.
Below is extremely in depth and well documented research “A Nosedive toward the Desert”, understand that Saudi Arabia oil inventory is highly secret information that has been protected by the United States Military since world war II. By measuring the magnitude of 9/11 and the fact that nearly 20% of the world energy has been misrepresented and more then likely does not exist. In essence by the same cabal that has been controlling the world energy markets unobstructed since 1952. Then a staged catastrophe like 9/11 is actually the preferred method to avoid the focus on the missing 20% of the world’s energy. Ask John F. Kennedy what happens when you draw attention to this “specific cabal” it is the same group that concealed Richard M. Nixon’s treason from 1952 tell he resigned.
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Press+Conferences/003POF05Pressconference22_01311962.htm
A Nosedive toward the Desert
Posted by Stuart Staniford on March 8, 2007
“At any rate, it is important to note that there were no recessions during the study interval and no sizeable periods of low growth after 2002. Thus production declines in Saudi Arabia in the period of study cannot be due to weakness in global economic growth.”
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2331
In poker it’s called going all in I am calling the United States government version of 9/11 bluff. LOL,LOL,LOL
Sometime between 2015-2020 Saudi Arabia will be essentially out of oil, their overstated oil reserves that the United States goverment has been involved with will then have be reckoned with, the reason for 9/11 will be in the full view of everyone in the world to see.
Anyone that does not believe that 9/11 is directly related to the decline of the oil reserves in Saudi Arabia is a fool. As recently as mid 2008 Saudi Arabia has taken a strong position to protect the oil prices for the marginal oil producers why would the allegedly largest oil reserve nation care about marginal oil producers? Come on Afghanistan was secured to bring a natural gas pipeline across it, then the invasion of Iraq by June of 2003 Iran was in the crosshairs. Iraq and Iran represent the future of cheap energy, the United States has kept their energy off the markets in most part since 1952. 9/11 was the catalyst to bust open the last great oil reserves by over throwing Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan with the U.S. military.
Christ wake up look as you drive down the freeway look at the lights of the large cites the air traffic millions upon millions of business transaction every minute all using oil or it’s by product to make the transactions happen. Cheap oil = Iraq, Iran, the distribution of cheap oil + Afghanistan.
By the way all organized religions are just as corrupt as their governments and corporations that run the governments.
Iraq Oil Reserves Estimated at 350 Billion Barrels (33% greater then Saudi Arabia ever was)
http://memrieconomicblog.org/bin/content.cgi?news=2038
Iraq’s deputy prime minister, Barham Saleh, said his country’s total oil reserves are estimated at 350 billion barrels, or threefold the current confirmed reserves. He drew his estimates from assessments by internationally reputable companies. If true, the Iraqi reserves could exceed those in Saudi Arabia, which are estimated at 264 billion barrels, and certainly those of Iran, with reserves of 137 billion barrels.
Iraq’s production of about 2.2 million b/d is considerably below its potential. However, Barham Saleh attributed the problem of limited production to the failure of the political establishment to agree to a new petroleum law that would regulate the relationship between the central government and the regions, particularly the Kurdish region that has signed oil agreements with foreign companies, considered by the central government as illegal.
Oil, geopolitics and war with Iran
By Michael T Klare
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GD13Ak01.html
And it is not just oil that Iran possesses in great abundance, but also natural gas. According to Oil and Gas Journal, Iran has an estimated 940 trillion cubic feet (26.6 trillion cubic meters) of gas, or approximately 16% of total world reserves. (Only Russia, with 1.68 quadrillion cubic feet, or 47.6 trillion cubic meters, has a larger supply.) As it takes approximately 170 cubic meters of gas to equal the energy content of one barrel of oil, Iran’s gas reserves represent the equivalent of about 155 billion barrels of oil. This, in turn, means that its combined hydrocarbon reserves are the equivalent of some 280 billion barrels of oil, just slightly behind Saudi Arabia’s combined supply. At present, Iran is producing only a small share of its gas reserves, about 76.5 billion cubic meters per year. This means that Iran is one of the few countries capable of supplying much larger amounts of natural gas in the future.
I have been doing a little math and you might want check this out.
Use this as your base line: Mar 13, 1986
Estimated proven oil reserves, in billions of barrels, as of Jan. 1, 1986
Saudi Arabia. . . 168.8 Kuwait . . . 89.8 Iran . . . 47.9 Iraq . . . 44.1 United Arab Emirates . . . 32.9 Venezuela . . . 25.6 Libya . . . 21.3 Nigeria . . . 16.6 Algeria . . . 8.8 Indonesia . . . 8.5
In 2006 let’s look at these same countries oil reserves:
Saudi Arabia..267 billion bbl Kuwait..104 (some sources say 48 billion - the difference is 5% of world reserves) Iran..132 Iraq..115 UAE.. 98 Venezuela.. 79 Libya.. 39 Nigeria.. 36 Algeria..12 Indonesia.. 4
Reference:
http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html
Estimated Oil reserves increases up from March 13, 1986 - 2006 by %
Saudi Arabia..37% Kuwait..15% Iran..63% Iraq..62% UAE..66% Venezuela..68%
Libya..47% Nigeria..55% Algeria..33%
Indonesia is the only country that has decreased in their estimated oil reserves by <50%>
Report by: Robert L. Hirsch Titled “The Inevitable Peaking of World Oil Production”
According to this report it totally contradicts the pervious information there is absolutely no evidence of the dramatic oil reserves increase from 1986 - 2006. It indicates the complete opposite.
Page 1″last super giant fields were found in the 1960’s” on page 4 of this report there is a 60 year bar graph from 1940 - 2000 that breaks down annual oil consumption versus new oil field discovers. Link below:
http://www.acus.org/docs/051007-Hirs…Production.pdf
Here is the link by: “Robert L. Hirsch Titled “The Inevitable Peaking of World Oil Production”
http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/pdf/hirsch_world_oil_production.pdf
Later,
Jesse Hemingway
The George W. Bush Administration rewards the terrorist state of Saudi Arabia with a nuclear energy program.
Why Is Bush Helping Saudi Arabia Build Nukes?
Wall Street Journal, June 10 2008
Wall Street Journal
Why Is Bush Helping Saudi Arabia Build Nukes?
http://globalwarming.house.gov/media…pieces?id=0008
Tuesday, June 24, 2008
Saudi Arabia Wants To Build Nuclear Power Plants
And President Bush wants to help. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently signed an agreement to assist Saudi Arabia with nuclear technology. The agreement also includes training nuclear engineers and constructing nuclear infrastructure. With oil hovering around $130 per barrel, why would they want to burn it in their own power plants instead of selling it to the world?
Critics believe that Saudi Arabia wants to get into the nuclear weapons industry and commercial nuke development is a way to do it. Critics also say that it is hypocritical for America to support the Saudi nuclear development while opposing such development by Iran, even though the USA started that program under the Atoms For Peace during the Shah of Iran’s reign.
http://cenvironment.blogspot.com/200…d-nuclear.html
I am calling the United States government version of 9/11 bluff, yes it is total B/S. We will soon witness whether Saudi Arabia and the United States government conspired and was lying to everyone with the fraudulent oil inventory reserves (see reference below). This is the easiest method for politicians and their corporate friends to steal the world blind. Increase your oil inventories then borrow against that new inventory that does not exist. The United States government is involved and is neck deep in this crime along with Saudi Arabia. The fact is that time is on our side tic-tock; tic-tock in less then 5 years Saudi Arabia will lose 30-40% of oil output capacity. The manifestation of this will be a constant decrease in oil output that has already been occurring. This decrease will be in a logarithmic scale function by proven historical empirical evidence.
By the way all organized religions are just as corrupt as their governments and corporations that run the governments.
Iraq Oil Reserves Estimated at 350 Billion Barrels (33% greater then Saudi Arabia ever was)
http://memrieconomicblog.org/bin/content.cgi?news=2038
Iraq’s deputy prime minister, Barham Saleh, said his country’s total oil reserves are estimated at 350 billion barrels, or threefold the current confirmed reserves. He drew his estimates from assessments by internationally reputable companies. If true, the Iraqi reserves could exceed those in Saudi Arabia, which are estimated at 264 billion barrels, and certainly those of Iran, with reserves of 137 billion barrels.
Iraq’s production of about 2.2 million b/d is considerably below its potential. However, Barham Saleh attributed the problem of limited production to the failure of the political establishment to agree to a new petroleum law that would regulate the relationship between the central government and the regions, particularly the Kurdish region that has signed oil agreements with foreign companies, considered by the central government as illegal.
Oil, geopolitics and war with Iran
By Michael T Klare
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GD13Ak01.html
And it is not just oil that Iran possesses in great abundance, but also natural gas. According to Oil and Gas Journal, Iran has an estimated 940 trillion cubic feet (26.6 trillion cubic meters) of gas, or approximately 16% of total world reserves. (Only Russia, with 1.68 quadrillion cubic feet, or 47.6 trillion cubic meters, has a larger supply.) As it takes approximately 170 cubic meters of gas to equal the energy content of one barrel of oil, Iran’s gas reserves represent the equivalent of about 155 billion barrels of oil. This, in turn, means that its combined hydrocarbon reserves are the equivalent of some 280 billion barrels of oil, just slightly behind Saudi Arabia’s combined supply. At present, Iran is producing only a small share of its gas reserves, about 76.5 billion cubic meters per year. This means that Iran is one of the few countries capable of supplying much larger amounts of natural gas in the future.
I have been doing a little math and you might want check this out.
Use this as your base line: Mar 13, 1986
Estimated proven oil reserves, in billions of barrels, as of Jan. 1, 1986
Saudi Arabia. . . 168.8 Kuwait . . . 89.8 Iran . . . 47.9 Iraq . . . 44.1 United Arab Emirates . . . 32.9 Venezuela . . . 25.6 Libya . . . 21.3 Nigeria . . . 16.6 Algeria . . . 8.8 Indonesia . . . 8.5
In 2006 let’s look at these same countries oil reserves:
Saudi Arabia..267 billion bbl Kuwait..104 (some sources say 48 billion - the difference is 5% of world reserves) Iran..132 Iraq..115 UAE.. 98 Venezuela.. 79 Libya.. 39 Nigeria.. 36 Algeria..12 Indonesia.. 4
Reference:
http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html
Estimated Oil reserves increases up from March 13, 1986 - 2006 by %
Saudi Arabia..37% Kuwait..15% Iran..63% Iraq..62% UAE..66% Venezuela..68%
Libya..47% Nigeria..55% Algeria..33%
Indonesia is the only country that has decreased in their estimated oil reserves by <50%>
Report by: Robert L. Hirsch Titled “The Inevitable Peaking of World Oil Production”
According to this report it totally contradicts the pervious information there is absolutely no evidence of the dramatic oil reserves increase from 1986 - 2006. It indicates the complete opposite.
Page 1″last super giant fields were found in the 1960’s” on page 4 of this report there is a 60 year bar graph from 1940 - 2000 that breaks down annual oil consumption versus new oil field discovers. Link below:
http://www.acus.org/docs/051007-Hirs…Production.pdf
Here is the link by: “Robert L. Hirsch Titled “The Inevitable Peaking of World Oil Production”
http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/pdf/hirsch_world_oil_production.pdf
Below is extremely in depth and well documented research “A Nosedive toward the Desert”, understand that Saudi Arabia oil inventory is highly secret information that has been protected by the United States Military since world war II. By measuring the magnitude of 9/11 and the fact that nearly 20% of the world energy has been misrepresented and more then likely does not exist. In essence by the same cabal that has been controlling the world energy markets unobstructed since 1952. Then a staged catastrophe like 9/11 is actually the preferred method to avoid the focus on the missing 20% of the world’s energy. Ask John F. Kennedy what happens when you draw attention to this “specific cabal” it is the same group that concealed Richard M. Nixon’s treason from 1952 tell he resigned.
A Nosedive toward the Desert
Posted by Stuart Staniford on March 8, 2007
“At any rate, it is important to note that there were no recessions during the study interval and no sizeable periods of low growth after 2002. Thus production declines in Saudi Arabia in the period of study cannot be due to weakness in global economic growth.”
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2331
By the way all organized religions are just as corrupt as their governments and corporations that run the governments.
Iraq Oil Reserves Estimated at 350 Billion Barrels (33% greater then Saudi Arabia ever was)
http://memrieconomicblog.org/bin/content.cgi?news=2038
Iraq’s deputy prime minister, Barham Saleh, said his country’s total oil reserves are estimated at 350 billion barrels, or threefold the current confirmed reserves. He drew his estimates from assessments by internationally reputable companies. If true, the Iraqi reserves could exceed those in Saudi Arabia, which are estimated at 264 billion barrels, and certainly those of Iran, with reserves of 137 billion barrels.
Iraq’s production of about 2.2 million b/d is considerably below its potential. However, Barham Saleh attributed the problem of limited production to the failure of the political establishment to agree to a new petroleum law that would regulate the relationship between the central government and the regions, particularly the Kurdish region that has signed oil agreements with foreign companies, considered by the central government as illegal.
Oil, geopolitics and war with Iran
By Michael T Klare
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GD13Ak01.html
And it is not just oil that Iran possesses in great abundance, but also natural gas. According to Oil and Gas Journal, Iran has an estimated 940 trillion cubic feet (26.6 trillion cubic meters) of gas, or approximately 16% of total world reserves. (Only Russia, with 1.68 quadrillion cubic feet, or 47.6 trillion cubic meters, has a larger supply.) As it takes approximately 170 cubic meters of gas to equal the energy content of one barrel of oil, Iran’s gas reserves represent the equivalent of about 155 billion barrels of oil. This, in turn, means that its combined hydrocarbon reserves are the equivalent of some 280 billion barrels of oil, just slightly behind Saudi Arabia’s combined supply. At present, Iran is producing only a small share of its gas reserves, about 76.5 billion cubic meters per year. This means that Iran is one of the few countries capable of supplying much larger amounts of natural gas in the future.
I have been doing a little math and you might want check this out.
Use this as your base line: Mar 13, 1986
Estimated proven oil reserves, in billions of barrels, as of Jan. 1, 1986
Saudi Arabia. . . 168.8 Kuwait . . . 89.8 Iran . . . 47.9 Iraq . . . 44.1 United Arab Emirates . . . 32.9 Venezuela . . . 25.6 Libya . . . 21.3 Nigeria . . . 16.6 Algeria . . . 8.8 Indonesia . . . 8.5
In 2006 let’s look at these same countries oil reserves:
Saudi Arabia..267 billion bbl Kuwait..104 (some sources say 48 billion - the difference is 5% of world reserves) Iran..132 Iraq..115 UAE.. 98 Venezuela.. 79 Libya.. 39 Nigeria.. 36 Algeria..12 Indonesia.. 4
Reference:
http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html
Estimated Oil reserves increases up from March 13, 1986 - 2006 by %
Saudi Arabia..37% Kuwait..15% Iran..63% Iraq..62% UAE..66% Venezuela..68%
Libya..47% Nigeria..55% Algeria..33%
Indonesia is the only country that has decreased in their estimated oil reserves by <50%>
Report by: Robert L. Hirsch Titled “The Inevitable Peaking of World Oil Production”
According to this report it totally contradicts the pervious information there is absolutely no evidence of the dramatic oil reserves increase from 1986 - 2006. It indicates the complete opposite.
Page 1″last super giant fields were found in the 1960’s” on page 4 of this report there is a 60 year bar graph from 1940 - 2000 that breaks down annual oil consumption versus new oil field discovers. Link below:
http://www.acus.org/docs/051007-Hirs…Production.pdf
Here is the link by: “Robert L. Hirsch Titled “The Inevitable Peaking of World Oil Production”
http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/pdf/hirsch_world_oil_production.pdf
9/11 brought back some terrifying moments for me last night y’all!
watching the terrific military movie, ‘no way out’ and at the end, the heli-copter goes through washington DC, right over the highway towards the same wall the fateful AA77 crashed into it. It is terrifying to see that while the credits are rolling.
If the ‘annoited’ mr. obama needs any reason to bring these sadistic animals to trial, he only needs to watch the end of this movie!
So Mr. Gasahm,
Who exactly did this film identify as the “sadistic animals?” Are you certain that the intended villains of the movie’s writers were clarified to you? If so, Mr. Gasahm, you may have been digitally water boarded. Eight years ago Mr. Obama was a community organizer, hardly a candidate for action eight years hence. Watch your television carefully and the real Dick will appear on Fox news. Obama is only the President. The administration, congress and judiciary is being held hostage by the private sector; don’t fall into their trap. You can verify this with B. O’Reilly.
grinder:)
Torture works great for indoctrination… just ask any Iranian. So let’s just go straight to the confession and skip the trial where the facts might come out.
Dear Mr. Oversight,
Torture has a long history in the US and has already proved stunningly effective in the 9/11 case. As a fellow enthusiast of this interrogation technique I personally implore you to read:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/14/AR2007031402102.html
This is a landmark case with regard to torture and we are breathlessly awaiting its corroboration with the 9/11 Commission’s findings. FACTS as you wisely suggest are what we need here. I have waited for many years for facts regarding many matters. I would not suggest that you wait. Instead take up your pen and list the facts as you can corroborate them. When you are finished burn the list and seek the truth.
grinder:)
Obama walks the razor’s edge…
sweeping 9-11 under the rug is probably the going rate for being allowed to bring in healthcare without getting ’spiked’.
A very interesting and incisive viewpoint. Only yesterday I had a similar thought with regard to two media giants Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens. Both of them were relative late night nobodies until they used their privileged podiums to trash the 9/11 truth movement. Maher physically threw 9/11 protesters from his audience and Hitchens trashed Michael Moore, Fahrenheit 9/11’s film maker. Both of these personalities are now media superstars and their message is persuasive but very anti church ( if there is such a word). I am beginning to think that an anti 9/11 is a “kiss the ring” ritual for success in the New World Order media empire.
I can write no more. THEY are moderating me.
grinder
Obama must think he was elected “king”. His penchant for deciding which laws are convenient to enforce and which aren’t rivals Bush and Cheney. It is very disturbing.
Obama’s behavior seems to re-inforce the idea that the reason the Democrats allowed Pelosi to block impeachment is that they wanted the full arsenal of illegallity practiced by the Bush administration in their president’s tool box.
Fundamentally, the nation isn’t getting back on track so much as going farther off the rails.
Why isn’t there an outcry from the progressives or the liberal movements?
You know the answer to that as well as I do.
He has a D behind his name. He’s from the “Dem Team.” That’s the answer. Period.
If messiah Obushma called himself a “Republican” there would be an outcry just as there was under War Criminal Bush. But since War Criminal Obushma is in La Casa Blanca, no, “we” have to be silent and make excuses and apologies for what our messiah is doing even though it’s the SAME THING BUSH DID that “we” screamed about. It’s now all right because our lord and savior Obushma is doing it. It’s all right because he’s from the “Dem Team.”
They are goddamn hypocrites.
Most people have been brainwashed that they are not supposed to be critical of their own “team” no matter what that “team” does. It’s called unconditional, blind support. It’s also the same thing fundamentalist christians do when it comes to their church and god.
That’s why there’s not an outcry. Also, many Obamabots are still making excuses and apologies for their lord and savior Obushma, and resorting to saying “he’s better than so and so would have been” and other such drivel. You know, the typical Dem kool-aid drinking that the “Dem Team” fools spew.
But that’s the reason and it’s Pathetic.
Mr imsam,
I have a “D” behind my name and I can assure you that many of us are not happy with this contamination of the Obama administration by the corruption of the Bush administration. Please bear in mind that this corruption goes back to the Reagan administration and that its stain is almost as impermeable as the “teflon” that Reagan was famous for. We have all been tortured and “brainwashed” as you put it. The degree to which we respond to this discomfort or horror will differ. I have chosen to fight any conservative political movement within my reach. You may choose another way. Just don’t let them put an “R” behind your name. Their movement is dead; the corpse is rotting, don’t even acknowledge it.
grinder (D)
A contamination of the Obama administration [sic]?
The Obama REGIME hasn’t been contaminated at all. Obama served as Bush-accomplice as a senator (see his voting record). He chose the people in his REGIME. It hasn’t been contaminated. His REGIME is what it is because HE put it there. He’s responsible for his REGIME, which is a continuation of the Bush REGIME. Obama has willingly kept on quite a few people from the Bush REGIME.
I’m a progressive independent (no party affiliation). I left the Democratic Party years ago after most of the so-called “Dems” in congress started serving as accomplices to Bush/Cheney et al.
Some of you D people may not be happy with messiah Obushma and are expressing that (which is good), but many people with a D behind their name are still making excuses, justifications and apologies for their messiah. They seem to conveniently forget that HE is the TOP person.
As for the Rs, they are not dead by any means. I know some people are saying that but that’s just wishful-thinking from some of the “Dem Team” supporters. The corporations are paying for BOTH of these parties. That’s why they look the same and are the same.
Mr. Imsam,
The original question in this thread was posed by Mr. Konst and our discussion arose from that. His question was “Why isn’t there an outcry from the progressives or the liberal movements.” I tried to describe the atmosphere in the government, an atmosphere that is frustrating and rife with paralysis and has a long history of failed attempts at consensus. Perhaps I was back peddling. I can assure you, if that is indeed possible, that the congress is not a monolithic group by any means and that opposing points of view are discussed thoroughly.
As a “progressive independent” your messianic take on the Democratic party is misplaced. Our enthusiasm for the new President may be mistaken for zealotry but we are human and have endured eight years of fundamental Christian martyrdom of both our troops and our constitution by shallow and untrained cheerleaders, chicken hawks and chiselers. During their tenure they were supported enthusiastically as messiahs of a sort and as you are aware, their prophecies were false and their entire conservative politic has proved itself to be an unmitigated, myopic fraud. There is my “outcry” for Mr Konst.
But Mr. Imsam choosing a paradigm for your benefit and clarification may well fall beyond my modest capacities. Your focus is blurred and your perception is skewed. You might be comfortable hunting with Dick Cheney. Obama is not a messiah he is a man with shortcomings and doubt. He is a cautious President and his “do no harm” rule could be confused as protecting the existing order. He could have asked the congress to enact sweeping regulatory legislation to correct the banking industry; he has instead made money, uncomfortably large sums, available to the banks. He has said to the banks, “If you are broke here is money, now police your own industry and correct its problems.” If these people want to be banks, they need to be able to do basic math. These appear to be the actions of a thoughtful man not some garden variety messiah.
I sincerely regret if my “outcry” does not help you. You need to understand that I abandoned speaking publicly in a loincloth many years ago.
Good luck, Mr Imsam
grinder(D)
So, we assist them in their own martyrdom? Kinda reminds me of the end of the movie Seven, where the cop plays into the hands of the serial killer.
I am trying to remember the movie “Seven.” This is difficult for me since I had the cable removed when Kerry lost ( I didn’t even listen to his concession speech; I called the cable company when I saw his face). Now I do remember a film called the “Seven Ups” with Roy Scheider and an even better one called “Sorcerer”. But I date myself. Martyrdom about which you write insists upon a god. If you watch the “Sorcerer” you will realize that no such thing exists. He is at best a rhetorical flourish.
grinder:)
“Amendment 6 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.”
If this doesn’t apply to everyone in this country (and if you don’t think Guantanamo is American soil, see what happens if you attack it) then what are we?
How are we different than those Other countries?
“9-11 plotters?” Really?
Yeah, well you’ll need to visit Langley and Tel Aviv if you want to pick up the now very cold trail of the original 9-11 plotters — that’s where the crime of 9-11 has hatched.
kurt,
Precisely! Obama is nothing but a puppet on the strings of the Illuminati/Bilderberg golbalist cabal of neocons, zionists, nazis, and plutocrats. It is THEY who hatched 9/11, with Bush/Cheney more than willing participants in the crime of the century.
For the sake of historical discovery and keeping Conspiracy Theory in check, end Capital Punishment, especially if that is the desired result of those who want to become Martyrs. Transparency? There are many unanswered questions about 9/11. I’d still like to see the footage of the “airliner” that lumbered through all the american state of the art Defense and hit the Pentagon. They must have released that by now. Can someone send me a Link? Or is Time going to sweep everything under the rug for the time being? This is Huge Drama, bigger than anything Hollywood can dream up, why aren’t more people interested in this? Is it Fear? Is it Apathy? It’s more interesting than “Days of Our Lives” isn’t it? Certainly more important. I don’t know about You, but the Suspense is killing me and it seems like Obama just wants to kill the Evidence. That will only make the Suspense even greater…. anticipation… wait burn the books